[Abhi_Automobile]

It's true. The ANHC is not up to the mark in terms of quality. But, they make it here in India, just like the way it's made elsewhere. So in that sense, there is no compromise.

But it's true! They could improve the build-quality and feel of the City inside.

well, if its built to 'global' standards, and yet not up to the quality mark, that even more shocking. Does that mean that Honda global standards have declined as well.

Nope! The real reason is that Jazz, unlike ANHC, is a global model, sold in Europe etc. where quality standards are much higher. To your support, it looks like they build it the same exacting standards here. Which explains the high quality interiors (almost no car with shoddy interiors ever succeeds in Europe). The ANHC on the other hand, is a 'developing countries' model, which means that the quality bar is set low for it. It is mostly sold is south-east Asia. Even the ANHCs in Thailand are averagely built. That is why you see top class interior and 'better than Jap' build quality in another one of my fav Honda models, Civic.

Are you talking about the new Passat? The old Passat was on-par with the Accord, if you ask me. The new one though, is just one helluva brilliant product! And miles head of the competition now.

This makes the argument even better. It's a CKD, which means that it attracts significantly higher tax than locally produced Honda. And even then, its competitively priced And such a better product too. Honda needs to be more competitive than it has been in the past. It has so far got away with pricing its products at (at times) unnecessary premium, but its a thing of past.

I think we are having quite bickering over here in this thread among Honda lovers and Honda criticizers. Is there any 'concrete' info whether Honda is really launching a 1.5 L Jazz or we are only making speculations?

@MODS we need your intervention here please.

I am 'generally Honda supporter' antagonized by indifferent Honda moves. And I don't think an intervention is required. I. for one, do not intend to get into any Honda v/s not Honda discussion from now on.

finally to the topic, the Jazz 1.5 will not do much help to the falling sales. Only price cut will do. Knowing Honda, its very unlikely that they will do that. So, unfortunately we may have an early end the a good product. The enthusiasts are the only ones I see buying this 1.5L car. However, the Jazz doesn't necessarily have sporty handling either. I don't know what purpose does this move solve

[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Precisely.

I'm glad Honda are sticking to the basics. Producing and selling a car that is technically sound, extremely well engineered, well designed and most importantly, safe. Other companies should learn from Honda. Safety cannot be compromised.

What happened to Honda's basics when they launched the previous generation City and subsequently the City ZX? This was not too long ago. Airbags and ABS were not even an option until they came out with the "10th anniversary" version in the City VTEC. It is only since the ANHC and the Jazz that Honda can boast of having safety features in all variants. They replaced the rear discs in the earlier City VTEC to drum type to save on costs.

I am no Honda basher. Having owned the City in the past, I can vouch for the reliability & hassle free ownership but the overall attitude of Honda and of late their poor service leaves a lot to be desired. And the inflated pricing of all Honda vehicles has always been a salient feature.

[vivriti]

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

This makes the argument even better. It's a CKD, which means that it attracts significantly higher tax than locally produced Honda. And even then, its competitively priced And such a better product too. Honda needs to be more competitive than it has been in the past. It has so far got away with pricing its products at (at times) unnecessary premium, but its a thing of past.

The Accord is a fully imported product and that should be taken into account when comparing with the Passat.

The Jazz is more of a lifestyle product and the problem here is that Honda is unable to convey the message to the average buyer who instead sees it as simply less car for money. Even in the case of Civic vs City, most people are unaware of the real differences and instead see it as less/more car for money.

Even in mature and less price sensitive markets, the Jazz/Fit is still behind the Accord/Civic in sales.

[pratim]

Originally Posted by adimicra

I don't want to start argument on subjective things because these things do not end ever.

The things you say about fat pay cheque, married, unmarried and all seem ridiculous to me.
I, myself, am married with a kid and well past 30 (unfortunate but true) and I know people older than me who have bought Jazz! And no, my pay cheque is not that fat!
No more posts from my side on this topic.

Adimicra, I fail to get what's so ridiculous! Would you please explain who among the salaried class can afford to buy an ANHC or Jazz (1.5 lacs of difference not withstanding) save the ones with nice pay cheques? And dont ever think that I did not get the underlying intent and tone of that sentence and the rolling smiley. I could have given a reply, but I dont want to get there.

You are the few ones who think otherwise, but, what I had stated has some truth in it. Care to think deep why Jazz does not outsell ANHC in India unlike some east Asian countries? Please do that. Chances are that you will end up somewhere close to my thoughts.

No one in there right senses deny that Jazz is a fantastic car. But, for a urban man with family with kids and some cases parents staying along, City is a better choice for the factors I mentioned in my previous posts (#53).

FYI, my car has clocked almost 20000 KM and barring a few kilometers clocked by the service guys, it's me who has been behind the steering. Always. When I say rear seat comfort and luxury, I say it for my family members who occupy that, not me. For me, family comes before self. Not otherwise around.

@vb_san,
I should have explained more on "responsibilities.."etc. As a husband, a father of two kinds, and a son of aging parents I have to make sure my family gets the comfort they deserve, be it city run-abouts or highway trips for travels with decent amount of luggages (we normally travel with light luggages) that too carrying the luggage securely. Sadly, Jazz does not fit the bill there. I have given my reasoning for this in the post no. 53 in this thread. And I still stand-by those observations.

@Suhaas,
I think ASR_245 have pretty much answered for me. Thanks ASR!

Cheers
Pratim

[ajay_satpute]

@adimicra, @suhaas307, @Abhi_Automobile, @swiftnfurious and other fans and critics of Honda:

I really think that this discussion is going completely off the track and to some extent getting into unwanted territories.

A humble request to you all : Just chill down and lets target sidindica to get more detailed information about the 1.5 Jazz and whether the launch is confirmed. Once we have our plates full, the discussion can get a good direction rather than shooting in the dark right now.

I dont want to sound too bossy, but just thought this for the good.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by pratim

Adimicra, I fail to get what's so ridiculous! Would you please explain who among the salaried class can afford to buy an ANHC or Jazz (1.5 lacs of difference not withstanding) save the ones with nice pay cheques? And dont ever think that I did not get the underlying intent and tone of that sentence and the rolling smiley. I could have given a reply, but I dont want to get there.

You are the few ones who think otherwise, but, what I had stated has some truth in it. Care to think deep why Jazz does not outsell ANHC in India unlike some east Asian countries? Please do that. Chances are that you will end up somewhere close to my thoughts.

No one in there right senses deny that Jazz is a fantastic car. But, for a urban man with family with kids and some cases parents staying along, City is a better choice for the factors I mentioned in my previous posts (#53).

FYI, my car has clocked almost 20000 KM and barring a few kilometers clocked by the service guys, it's me who has been behind the steering. Always. When I say rear seat comfort and luxury, I say it for my family members who occupy that, not me. For me, family comes before self. Not otherwise around.

@vb_san,
I should have explained more on "responsibilities.."etc. As a husband, a father of two kinds, and a son of aging parents I have to make sure my family gets the comfort they deserve, be it city run-abouts or highway trips for travels with decent amount of luggages (we normally travel with light luggages) that too carrying the luggage securely. Sadly, Jazz does not fit the bill there. I have given my reasoning for this in the post no. 53 in this thread. And I still stand-by those observations.

@Suhaas,
I think ASR_245 have pretty much answered for me. Thanks ASR!

Cheers
Pratim

I and everyone knows why the Jazz doesn't sell much.
So I do not want to state that again.

Since I too don't wanna drag this any more, so lets leave this.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

What happened to Honda's basics when they launched the previous generation City and subsequently the City ZX? This was not too long ago. Airbags and ABS were not even an option until they came out with the "10th anniversary" version in the City VTEC. It is only since the ANHC and the Jazz that Honda can boast of having safety features in all variants. They replaced the rear discs in the earlier City VTEC to drum type to save on costs.

I am no Honda basher. Having owned the City in the past, I can vouch for the reliability & hassle free ownership but the overall attitude of Honda and of late their poor service leaves a lot to be desired. And the inflated pricing of all Honda vehicles has always been a salient feature.

Well, it's a good thing that Honda understood sooner, rather than later. As far as I know, Honda was the first brand in India to introduce airbags and ABS as standard equipment across the range. So one should give them a at on their back, rather than pulling out old skeletons out of the closet. It took them almost a decade to get their basics right, but they have eventually. They have corrected themselves, you know.

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

@adimicra, @suhaas307, @Abhi_Automobile, @swiftnfurious and other fans and critics of Honda:

I really think that this discussion is going completely off the track and to some extent getting into unwanted territories.

A humble request to you all : Just chill down and lets target sidindica to get more detailed information about the 1.5 Jazz and whether the launch is confirmed. Once we have our plates full, the discussion can get a good direction rather than shooting in the dark right now.

I dont want to sound too bossy, but just thought this for the good.

It's high time the discussion stops. let's move on to what's a hand now. And that's the Jazz 1.5. Sidindica, I think it's time you throw more light on the new Jazz. Any pictures, other than the one I'd posted a page or two earlier?

[kaizen]

I think it will be minor model change like front grill and bumbers some extra features onlyfor the time being , but the new honda brio is coming with 1.2 litre i vtec engine with 90 ps for sure.

[AjiGTI]

I can see some interesting arguments over Jazz vs city. My reasons for buying a Jazz in Dubai during 2006 is as follows. (comparing with a mid variant of City)

1. 1.5 V-tec Engine vs 1.5 i-Dsi Engine in City
2. Blue-black interiors vs Beige interiors of City
3. Jazz was cheaper (INR 50,000 aprx) than City (Jazz Aprx 5 Lacs)
4. Magic seats compensated for the lack of boot. (In fact I have transported much bigger items in Jazz which would not have been possible in City)
5. Jazz made in Japan and City made in Malaysia. (only snob value , in the middle east this always counts)

other cars considered outside honda:
Chevy Spark, Hyundai Getz - rejected as they are not as good as Jazz, though much cheaper. I have also considered Toyota Yaris and VW Polo before deciding on Jazz.

I will definitely have a look at Jazz if they launch it with 1.5 engine here. It is such a nice car and I will rate it above city at any point. But I agree that 1.5 engine is not going to add any big numbers to the sales.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

I just read this little line of yours in your post and could not help comment on it. So Suhaas307, isn't that the duty/the basic goal of every car manufacturer?? A satisfied customer is what every business firm desires and thus all the companies try their best to please their customers in terms of the " engineering and technology" of their product. It is a different thing that the market is vast with dissimilar buyers whose wants and needs differ from each other hence the product maybe appealing to some and not to others.

Honda is no exception in this case. They are trying to aim for those who wish to shell out a lil more dough for their cars and have that "so called" premium vehicle. Yes I agree their engines are quite refined and fuel efficient at the same time but having said that their premium is not justifiable IMO. Its not like the other car manufacturers are offering products just to be in the market. There are many whose USP is fuel efficiency due to which they are stripped down and heavily criticised on this forum for having thinner tyres and no airbags/abs. What people donot understand is that these are basic point a to point b vehicles used 99% of times in the city where fuel efficiency is key. These car manufacturers are trying their level best in earning each customer by providing them with a product "engineered" to suit their demands and needs.

And I am really tired of hearing that Jazz is in a league of its own from Jazz owners who wish to justify every single time why they spent 7+ lakhs on the car which is pretty much the same what a 5 lakh car is. I mean how often do you guys use the magic seats. 1ce or 2ce probably to carry luggage and passengers. A car with a 60:40 rear seat can do the job for those miniscule occasions IMO. The music system is just about good. Airbags and Abs is offered by several at a price point much below. Space is good enough though. Quality is good. Price is literally horrendous. I donot care what the car is sold for in other markets. This is India. You satisfy the Indian customer the way we like not the way your overseas markets tell you.

I was at the Jazz showroom and the sales guy kept saying its in a different league.
How I ask? And he keeps emphasizing on the magic seats and its countless configurations.
What else? He talks about the engine, which I felt is very similar to the K-series in terms of power. Infact contrary to other reviews I felt the engine straining a bit on that side of 4500rpm and hence kept it in the midrange.
And any other? Yes its a premium car. Ok I would have bought it had they not asked me to shell out 7.8lakhs on it. At 6.8lakhs I would have probably bought it. At 5.8 lakhs I would have signed the cheque immediately.

Very Well said. However, if I had posted my opinion, it would have appeared more bitter and unpalatable to some. So I refrained.

But I would say this. Some guys here keep repeating over and over again how happy they are with their Jazz and how revolutionary/futuristic/fantastic it is. You know when you keep telling everyone loudly how happy you are, it means you are actually not happy deep inside. It means you are actually trying to mask your unhappiness. Sounds more like these guys are frustrated that Jazz hasn't been a commercial success nor is revered/worshipped or drooled over like they wanted their favorite car to be. This must be very frustrating to them. But I tell them this. Why should they need others' approval? You bought what you wanted. period. Be happy with it. You don't have to drive what others approve of. It's only a car. A consumer goods. Don't like it? Sell it off and go for another. As simple as that.

[mayjay]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Very Well said. However, if I had posted my opinion, it would have appeared more bitter and unpalatable to some. So I refrained.

But I would say this. Some guys here keep repeating over and over again how happy they are with their Jazz and how revolutionary/futuristic/fantastic it is. You know when you keep telling everyone loudly how happy you are, it means you are actually not happy deep inside. It means you are actually trying to mask your unhappiness. Sounds more like these guys are frustrated that Jazz hasn't been a commercial success nor is revered/worshipped or drooled over like they wanted their favorite car to be. This must be very frustrating to them. But I tell them this. Why should they need others' approval? You bought what you wanted. period. Be happy with it. You don't have to drive what others approve of. It's only a car. A consumer goods. Don't like it? Sell it off and go for another. As simple as that.

So happy owners of the Jazz should not be happy and shut up? Or by showing how much they like it, they actually dislike it, but since they bought it, they ought to be happy, but not show it, because if they show it, they are actually unhappy?
Confused? I am.

[snorting bull]

Originally Posted by pratim

Adimicra, I fail to get what's so ridiculous! Would you please explain who among the salaried class can afford to buy an ANHC or Jazz (1.5 lacs of difference not withstanding) save the ones with nice pay cheques? And dont ever think that I did not get the underlying intent and tone of that sentence and the rolling smiley. I could have given a reply, but I dont want to get there.

Sir, We are in t-bhp. We don't talk about pay cheques. Its just the question of you love the car or not. If every decision was driven by your pay cheque, most people in India would have two scooters / bikes interconnected with a rod and driving. Take an example of me, my car doesn't have any resemblance to my cheque. The country is moving away from cheque mode and you can see from the way cars are being sold.

[RS_DEL]

Originally Posted by snorting bull

Sir, We are in t-bhp. We don't talk about pay cheques. Its just the question of you love the car or not. If every decision was driven by your pay cheque, most people in India would have two scooters / bikes interconnected with a rod and driving. Take an example of me, my car doesn't have any resemblance to my cheque. The country is moving away from cheque mode and you can see from the way cars are being sold.

@ Mods: This is an OT response to an OT comment. If this violates forum rules of conduct and debate my sincere regrets in advance and needless to add kindly delete this post.

@ snorting bull: I thought this forum was about [a] appreciation of existing automotive products/technologies, [b] gaining knowledge/ education about how to maximise traveling/commuting comfort and safety with in the constraints our financial resources aka paycheque. If I am mistaken, please do not hesitate to correct me. No where did I gain the impression that the forum advocates profligacy in pursuit of our automotive aspirations. I would suggest with utmost respect to you, that let us focus on the subject at hand and not make disparaging comments that can lead to acrimonious exchanges which take us away from the basic purpose of our interaction via this forum.

[snorting bull]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

@ Mods: This is an OT response to an OT comment. If this violates forum rules of conduct and debate my sincere regrets in advance and needless to add kindly delete this post.

@ snorting bull: I thought this forum was about [a] appreciation of existing automotive products/technologies, [b] gaining knowledge/ education about how to maximise traveling/commuting comfort and safety with in the constraints our financial resources aka paycheque. If I am mistaken, please do not hesitate to correct me. No where did I gain the impression that the forum advocates profligacy in pursuit of our automotive aspirations. I would suggest with utmost respect to you, that let us focus on the subject at hand and not make disparaging comments that can lead to acrimonious exchanges which take us away from the basic purpose of our interaction via this forum.

Apologize. I agree. I am getting out this thread subscription.

[amitg79]

The 1.5 will make the Jazz quite a hot hatch, but another price increase will push it into 'hot sedan' territory, where it will be on the same price level as the Fiesta S, Linea T-Jet, Vento diesel and the upcoming Skoda Rapid diesel (same engine from Vento). That, in turn may not help it get a huge response from driving enthusiasts.
They have to get the pricing correct on this one.