[Ricky_63]

Originally Posted by vinaydas

how about a TC'ed 1.5 Jazz? It should be able to eat your TC swift for dessert

I totally agree with you, but there is a big BUT, would anyone spend on Tc'ing the Jazz given the price of the car, I think not. Ever thought of a 1.6 TC'd Swift ? That would have the TC'd Jazz for breakfast.



Cheers

[noopster]

Today's news says that Honda is following Toyota's lead and has announced a 50% reduction in capacity following supply hits caused by the Japanese earthquake/tsunami. I seriously doubt they will launch a new variant in this period.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by mdsaab

Nice to see a lot of support for the Jazz here.
It truly is a fine product, and a global one at that.
But seriously Honda needs to re-think their pricing strategy. If they can offer the 1.5L at the same money, most people will think of it as a move forward and might choose it over the competition.
They can then re-position the 1.2L and reduce the price by around 1 lakh, now this move will make everybody happy, Including Honda.

+1 to your comments. The Jazz certainly is a fine product and I guess the current owners consider it to be in a category/ segment of its own.
As a recent buyer of a pre owned Jazz, I am more than satisified with the quality of the product. It offers ABS and airbags as standard in all variants, so even the low end I think it will do better in the used car market as it will continue to hold its value at least for a few years. Either that or I am living in my own little bubble! At the end of the day, all I considered was the practicality on offer for the price asked. I have driven the i20 as well and while it offers a lot of bells and whistles, it did not do much for me. For some reason, I thought the Jazz offered a different level of comfort than the i20 and this was even when I had almost put down my cheque for a new i20; to each his own I guess!

I would definitely be happier if there was a 1.5L under the hood, but I know that all my money can buy for now is a 1.2L. It would be great if the 1.5L is launched at current 1.2L prices and either the 1.2 L gets reduced pricing or gets phased out altogether. In that case, some of the existing owners may end up feeling a bit cheated for having paid the same amount for a 1.2L. For my own good, I hope that Honda compensates us in some way - quite a bit of wishful thinking there. Knowing Honda's previous pricing bloopers, it is quite justified for one to remain skeptical.

At the end of the day, I am not interested in how Honda does as a company, just that my car works well for me and has a niggle free existence with decent ***. At the end of the day Honda will not pay me a bonus as a car owner if they make profits and I dont lose anything directly if they make losses.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

What features can be cut? It anyway does not have many features, and if they cut any people still wont buy it. It is not VFM, and to make it VFM it needs a price cut.

Contrary to general opinion, Jazz Select is a pretty well loaded car.
There are lot to cutfor lower priced versions -
ABS
airbags
seat belt pretensioners
electric OVRMs
Music system
seat belt height adjusters
tilt steering
alloy wheels
rear defogger
rear wiper.
speed sensitive volume


Is it that difficult to squeeze 2 lower priced variants with some/all of the above features missing?
That's what all manufacturers are doing - what features a Polo or the new Fabia have anyway? Much less! But still they have 3 variants - isnt it?
I wonder why this is so difficult to understand!

[suhaas307]

This move is solely because Honda will be introducing the Brio with the same 1.2 iVtec lump found in the Jazz. Honda will need to differentiate the cars for the customers, and the Jazz should justify its higher position and price-tag in the market when the Brio makes an entry.

Good move by Honda I'd say. Now with the 1.5 iVtec lump, things are going to get hotter in the premium-hatch segment. Let's just hope Honda provide the necessary goodies this time. The Jazz misses many features that come as standard-equipment on many cars in the same segment, such as auto-climate-control, auto-ORVMs, etc.

And now, IMO, the City is useless. I don't see the point of it. Yes, it has a 500 litre boot. And that's it. The trade off is that the Jazz would be more maneuverable inside the city and in heavy traffic than any sedan.

I'm speaking with experience here. So please don't flame me for saying this.

The Jazz does everything that the City does. It has the same engine, provides the same levels of sophistication, has all the interior space you need (should be the same as the City). The only advantage the City has is the larger boot. And honestly, the Jazz's boot is more than enough even for long journeys. Don't believe me? Check all the ownership-reports on the Jazz and you'll see it for yourself.

And now, the Jazz is a lakh lesser than the City. If you ask me, all those looking to go in for a City and who will be predominantly driving inside the city, will not need to buy a City anymore. And it costs 1 lakh lesser than the City.

EDIT: Now the only people who would buy a City over the Jazz are those who are image conscious. They would not want to be caught dead driving a hatch when a sedan for similar money gives them the 'mojo' they're looking for!

Now that's value, if you ask me! It's just another way of looking at it.

[asr245]

Too bad.. i bought the ANHC last year else I would have definitely considered this. Same engine, better interiors, very spacious from what I have heard. If launched at less than ANHC price, it could surely find more than a few buyers.

That said, is this really happening considering the production cut and supply problems from Japan?

[fuel_addict]

A 1.5L engine in the Jazz should have been a Day One offering in India like in other markets. At the price point, it definitely should have been that way. It is neither under 4 metres in length and would not qualify for excise benefit anyways.

Now that Honda is mulling over the 1.5L offering in Jazz, where would this leave the City? The Jazz is as spacious as the City and could well pass off for a sedan given the cabin space and enormous boot from hatchback standards. Knowing Honda's reluctance to get the diesel options (assuming they have something other than the 2.2L diesel) to India, a price cut in addition to the 1.5L engine might work for the Jazz. 1.5 lakh price cut like others mentioned is spot on. The rocketing sales of Fabia post the price cut is a perfect example. At 8-9L ex showroom for the 1.5L Jazz, I doubt if it'll really sell.

[pratim]

@Suhaas,

I won't say City will be completely useless compared to the 1.5 ivtec Jazz, if it gets launched.

a. As you have mentioned, boot space: City has more.
b. Jazz dont have an automatic option yet and we dont know if they are going to launch one with the 1.5 motor.
c. Rear seat--City wins here, hands down. Dont take my words, take rides in both cars and you will know. City rear seats have better thigh support, it has thicker seats, better back support including better back rest inclination. Jazz suffers here, I think, due to the magic seat configurations.
d. I am not very sure about this, but, a proper sedan will have less body roll and better handling compared to it's hatchback sibiling, both built on the same platform.
e. Visual appeal: City is more aggresive where Jazz is suave and may be a little blander on the outside. So, folks who are drawn to a car by it's looks first, City will win their heart.

But, yes, magic seats are a plus for Jazz that City don't have. But, hey, many layman buyers like me buy cars to carry folks, mostly family. They may not want to compromise seating comfort in exchange of possibility of carrying an odd bicycle or flower pots, or some such things.

If I were to choose between City and Jazz 1.5 again, I would choose the City once again, not withstanding the image or mojo (as you have said) effect, but for reasons stated above.

The moot point is: both will sell side by side, 1.5 City trumping the 1.5 Jazz in sales volumes.

Cheers
Pratim

[volkman10]

It is unanimous opinon the current Jazz is near perfect in design but a flop in sales due to its ridiculous pricing!
Now with 1.5 X at 8 lakh ex-showroom, would surely mean the same SRV story being repeated and seems Honda is really serious in the Indian market.

Cheers!

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by StrangeWizard

Jazz is already over-priced that's why it failed. After the facelift and the 1.5 liter engine, the price of the new variant would be at least 60- 70k more than the current variants.
Now only if Honda reduces the price of the 1.2 to around 6.10-6.25 ex-showroom and the 1.5 be priced at the current price of 1.2, then maybe the Jazz may find more takers. Otherwise its gonna be a bigger failure.
Jazz did not fail because it has a 1.2 liter engine, it failed because of its high price so Honda should take care of the pricing now.

Perfectly my point.

Bring down the current Jazz to sane levels (5.5-6.5 lacs Ex-showroom) and then introduce the new 1.5 Jazz at current prices (7-8 lacs Ex-showroom). That will surely improve the sales of Jazz from current 2 digit numbers to somewhere around 500+.

I really absolutely LOVE the Jazz for the way it is engineered and designed so flawlessly. Even the ANHC feels down in front of the Jazz, especially the interiors. Jazz is the most unique product in Indian market. Unfortunately, it also remained unique on the sales front.

Hope Honda is shaken and stirred by the success of Vento and the upcoming stunners from Ford and Hyundai.

Wishing all the best to Honda.

[shamanth]

1.5 Jazz should be really fun for performance loving people. I remember driving down the highway Jazz 1.2 was able to match and even better City in pick up and speed. Jazz 1.5 should be thrilling, lighter body weight with powerful engine.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by pratim

a. As you have mentioned, boot space: City has more.
b. Jazz dont have an automatic option yet and we dont know if they are going to launch one with the 1.5 motor.
c. Rear seat--City wins here, hands down. Dont take my words, take rides in both cars and you will know. City rear seats have better thigh support, it has thicker seats, better back support including better back rest inclination. Jazz suffers here, I think, due to the magic seat configurations.
d. I am not very sure about this, but, a proper sedan will have less body roll and better handling compared to it's hatchback sibiling, both built on the same platform.
e. Visual appeal: City is more aggresive where Jazz is suave and may be a little blander on the outside. So, folks who are drawn to a car by it's looks first, City will win their heart.
But, yes, magic seats are a plus for Jazz that City don't have. But, hey, many layman buyers like me buy cars to carry folks, mostly family. They may not want to compromise seating comfort in exchange of possibility of carrying an odd bicycle or flower pots, or some such things.
If I were to choose between City and Jazz 1.5 again, I would choose the City once again, not withstanding the image or mojo (as you have said) effect, but for reasons stated above.
The moot point is: both will sell side by side, 1.5 City trumping the 1.5 Jazz in sales volumes.

I agree with some of the points you mention about the City, especially the one about the quality of the rear seat. It is more suited for smaller travel groups, ideally with children in car seats in the rear. While I dont transport flower pots/ bicycles everyday, neither do I lug around 500 ltrs worth of stuff. To be frank, for many of us the boot is used only once in a while. At the end of the day, both vehicles offer different styling and appeal to different segments. However, the Jazz somehow seems to utilise its dynamics/ space better. The key issue with Honda has always been its pricing be it the Jazz or the City. But if the Indian buyers dont mind paying a premium for it, this story will see multiple re runs.

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Wishing all the best to Honda.

hey buddy, if you want to wish someone the best, please wish us buyers instead of Honda!!

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by pratim

@Suhaas,

b. Jazz dont have an automatic option yet and we dont know if they are going to launch one with the 1.5 motor.

Yes, I had forgotten to mention this in my earlier post. A competent auto-transmission mated to the 1.5 iVtec lump in the Jazz would complete the package. We'll have to wait and see.

Originally Posted by pratim

c. Rear seat--City wins here, hands down. Dont take my words, take rides in both cars and you will know. City rear seats have better thigh support, it has thicker seats, better back support including better back rest inclination. Jazz suffers here, I think, due to the magic seat configurations.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this one. I've been inside the City and I own a Jazz and I can vouch for that. Despite the space in the Jazz, the rear-seat support isn't as good as the City's. And you're right, it's because of the versatility of the Jazz. The seats are wonderful in their own way.

Originally Posted by pratim

d. I am not very sure about this, but, a proper sedan will have less body roll and better handling compared to it's hatchback sibiling, both built on the same platform.

I'm not entirely sure about this. But both the Jazz and the City share the same chassis and similar suspension configuration. Heck, even the tyres and wheels are of the same size. There is body-roll in the Jazz, but I'm sure there is body-roll in the City too. This can be negated by up-sizing the tyres and stiffening the suspension, of course, at the cost of ride-comfort.

Originally Posted by pratim

e. Visual appeal: City is more aggresive where Jazz is suave and may be a little blander on the outside. So, folks who are drawn to a car by it's looks first, City will win their heart.

This is purely subjective. The City, I agree, is very aggressively styled. I love the way it looks. The Jazz on the other hand may not be aggressive, but by no means is it 'bland'. It looks amazingly space-age IMO, and probably one of the best looking hatches in the country.

Originally Posted by pratim

But, yes, magic seats are a plus for Jazz that City don't have. But, hey, many layman buyers like me buy cars to carry folks, mostly family. They may not want to compromise seating comfort in exchange of possibility of carrying an odd bicycle or flower pots, or some such things.

True.

Both cars have their positives and negatives and it depends on the customer here and what he wants from the car. If he wants versatility, the Jazz is the better bet. If we wants a long-distance hauler, the City is the better car.

Originally Posted by pratim

The moot point is: both will sell side by side, 1.5 City trumping the 1.5 Jazz in sales volumes.

Sadly, yes. The City will continue to sell in larger numbers than the Jazz. This is also because our market hasn't matured enough for a premium hatch to trump its sedan-counterpart in terms of sales. People in India would still prefer a sedan. this has been extensively discussed in another thread.

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Perfectly my point.

Bring down the current Jazz to sane levels (5.5-6.5 lacs Ex-showroom) and then introduce the new 1.5 Jazz at current prices (7-8 lacs Ex-showroom). That will surely improve the sales of Jazz from current 2 digit numbers to somewhere around 500+.

The reason why Honda will discontinue/has discontinued the 1.2 is because they want to introduce the new Brio in our market with the same 1.2 iVtec lump. This will negate the necessity to have a 1.2 litre Jazz in the market. The Brio, in fact, will fall right in that 5-6 lakh braket that you've mentioned.

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

hey buddy, if you want to wish someone the best, please wish us buyers instead of Honda!!

Agreed. 200%. I should be wishing us, the buyer rather than the company.

[dot]

Comparing City and Jazz, just because they might have similar powerplants seems to be a stretch. Maybe it has to do with the fact that most of us can choose only one at a time (me included, BTW).

Jazz is a flamboyant hot hatch wannabe. City is a refined and slick milecruncher. IMHO, thats what it is supposed to be. They portray two totally different images. Going to utility aspects, logic becomes very woolly and person specific.