[ra'ul M]

Why is everyone being so critical of FIAT?
IMHO they are making an effort. Observing a couple of Punto's and a Linea in which I travel frequently, I have some observations listed below:
1. The plastic quality has improved considerably in the recent cars [comparing a 2011 Punto with an older one]. And plastic quality is not that great in some of the other cars as well. OT: The steering wheel is good enough to eat
2. The service network is nothing to write home about but that cannot be improved overnight and I am sure they are working on it. The good part is that the service intervals are pretty long and the overall build [ not the plastics] is quite robust.
3. They only way they can make people notice the improved plastic quality and other bits is by refreshing the car and ringing in the changes.

Only major grouse: The cars are severely under powered [based on the capability of the package and not the competition], but that issue is being addressed according to what I have read in another thread.

[akhilesh]

Originally Posted by sethuv

I find my i10's interiors miles ahead.

I was under the same impression until I sat in my cousin's brand new i10 Magna VTVT. The central console paint was off from a number of places (possibly happened during fitment of ICE) and underneath the nice paint I could see that the quality of the plastic was pretty average. I would still say that its better than Fiat and Maruti's. More so in fitment where there are no panels gaps and everything fits nicely.

Originally Posted by sethuv

Another issue we notice is the quality of display/ test drive cars. My cousin was so looking forward to the 90BHP punto. But when he went to have at a display vehicle whose glove box lid wouldn't close, he went ahead and booked a Polo.
I really would like to see the punto faring better, hope Fiat also does.

You know what happened with my friend. He drives a Verna and was looking forward to a hatchback with his heart set on Swift for lack of fund for the i20 diesel. One test drive of the Punto and he was an instant convert, slightly loose glove box lid not with standing.
The point here is that loose glove box can be taken care of unlike build quality, three cylinder engines and a non cooling A/C.

No offence but I find it decidedly funny when people post comments like - 'the glovebox was loose and he booked car xyz' or 'the salesman didnt attend properly so he booked car abc' sounds more like an excuse rather than a reason. Because if you can't put up with a loose glovebox, how can you put with a three cylinder 74 bhp diesel lest you arent interested in the engine in the car you are buying.

[fiat_tarun]

I think the beige interiors are a good move. This will atleast give the perception of a better quality cabin.

On the other hand i too feel that Fiat should focus on their strengths and make enthusiasts cars. They have such beautiful engines that are powerful yet economical to run, but they seem to have taken a very cautious route and as a result, other cars with the same engines have better performance.

Originally Posted by vb-san

I don’t see any market where in they are prominent in the sales chart (maybe Italy is an exception). These guys are not short of money, and they make wonderful machines as well. Just that they don’t do enough to push their case.

They are doing very well (Market leader if i'm right) in Brazil and have a market share of around 22%, followed by VW with around 20%.

The Linea's in Brazil get a 1.8L E Torq engine

[darksoul]

Just spoke to my friend who is a Regional Sales Manager for a Fiat dealer based out of Bangalore. He said the 1.6 MJD Linea was planned for Diwali, but pushed back because they understand that people want a "current year new model" car. The T-Jet numbers were not great at the Nov launch as people waited for the new year to place their bookings.

So according to him, the 1.6 MJD Linea with upgraded interiors and cosmetic tweaks will be launched in Jan end/early Feb 2012.

[jazzrockz]

FIAT has simply not read the market correctly in India.
Secondly they have Babus running affairs, its like Kalmadi running the IOC.
Now when everything seems to go wrong they have knee jerk reactions and start playing with interior colours, adding stickers, chrome, dunno what else.
Result screw a seemingly bullet proof product.
In India even ugly cars sell - TATA cars (bar Aria, Nano). But they have a product mix in place - price and service availability or simply availability. And to top it re-saleability.
We are simple Indians who want the complete bang for our buck. We will spend money but not on a car who's Mfgr might simply roll over and return to Italy someday. So what if you have a Monica bellucci of a car? Karishma Kapoor once ruled here in India too. Its not just the looks, its all about being there.
Take lessons from Ford, who slowly and solidly started revamping their brand before launching the Figo. There were articles, drives, CEO interviews, executive speaks, all PR focussed on establishing that Ford is here in India for good. Though not loud they were present in all medias and subsequently in our subconscious. Figo launch and acceptance was a breeze!
I have seen the red colored dashboard in most Figos!!! We were disgusted at the color on launch here on the forums. But so what...Read the market correct.


Now here is Fiat, no perception whatsover, ties up with TATA.
Launches the Linea, absolutely underpowered, mite expensive, service issues. Launches Punto, expensive! Launches Tjet no promotion, stupid ad, nobody even knows if the Tjet is diesel or Petrol. Exorbitant by perception.
Absolutely no PR - Fiat is barely mentioned in the press. All the mention it gets is when suzuki launches a diesel variant of the MJD.
The people dont know zilch about Fiat, zero eyeballs. Out of sight out of mind.
What do they expect...? To sell first and then they will embark on a brand promotion later??
Everything needs an overhaul from the top brass to the Sales guys to the service centres. IS very sarkari now. I think the Italians are having a problem language wise. Apna babus are taking them for a royal ride!
Its very difficult to kill a brand with a truly fantastic product lineup, but these guys are achieving it!! And with new Fiesta and Verna around, Honda will up the ante, VW will achieve god speed in deliveries, Suzuki will not lie down and take it, but for Fiat unless there is something radical happening the end is nigh!

I bought a Tjet much to everybody's opposition. Even I was getting the Heebie-jeebies till the car was delivered. All kinds of apprehensions had set in - should i buy the most expensive Fiat model, will the company be around, will it(Tjet) be discontinued, my mind had absolutely vetoed the buying decision. But dil ki baat ... went for it! (On paper Tjet is a better buy than ANHC, Vento, Cedia and Cruze - my option list )
The Tjet is my ultimate stress buster today. All worries dissolve whence behind the wheel.
But the question still nags in the back of my mind... was it right to buy a 10L Fiat. Till Fiat gets it right the question will remain.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by darksoul

Just spoke to my friend who is a Regional Sales Manager for a Fiat dealer based out of Bangalore. He said the 1.6 MJD Linea was planned for Diwali, but pushed back

That's bad news. As per the carblogindia website the Linea with 1.6 MJD heart was expected in 2 months time Fiat Linea Automatic in India With 1.6 & 1.3 Turbocharged Diesel Engine. But if your friend is to be believed then I am a bit disappointed. If I read the specs of this engine correctly, then it develops a max power of 105 ps & a mouth watering torque of 290Nm in the 1500-2500 rpm band. Just to remind you the Vento Tdi develops the same max power of 105 ps & a torque of 250Nm in the same 1500-2500 rpm band & it was crowned as the New Torque King by our very own GTO. Can't just think of the title/adjective that GTO would confer upon this 1.6 MJD

Originally Posted by darksoul

So according to him, the 1.6 MJD Linea with upgraded interiors and cosmetic tweaks will be launched in Jan end/early Feb 2012.

I am ready to wait till that time, if the new Verna or the new Fiesta doesn't completely bowl me over.

[.sushilkumar]

MY post Below may sound like a FAN boy post or offensive to few, my sincere apologies to all those .
IMO, this thread is turning out to be another fiat bashing thread

Everybody here is asking for 1.6 multijet engines, better plastics and better A.S.S. and all, but how many of us are ready to plonk the money when we will have these. IMO none!!!!! . FIAT launched t-jet, keeping us enthusiasts in mind but i has seen only 2 ownership reviews of t-jet. where were are other who were demanding power in linea.

A manufacturer doesn;t make a car keeping enthusiasts in mind ( FIAT still launched T-jet ) . they are last in their consideration. a CAR is meant for common man who looks for a VFM factor and IMO both linea and Punto scores high on VFM factor . none of the car manufacturer can survive on a community of 1lakh car enthusiasts in nation of 100 crores . they need no's to survive and earn money.

i am sure that once FIAT has launched 1.6 , people will crib that we need 1.9 or 2.0 litre now . IMO, there is no limit to demands.

it's very easy to criticize sitting in viewers box. I have just bought one 15 days back and Immediate reaction of friend who owns a swift was

your car has got better interiors than mine and has a solid build quality . thumps up on my purchase from him . remember i did;t asked for his comments and he is a seasoned drivers .

problem is that most people are living in dream world, dreaming falling plastics from FIAT car's and car's struggling to start off the first gear and swifts / i20's zooming past them to glory . personally , Car's build quality , driving manners and reliability matters more to me than plastics & resale value. I am getting decent A.S.S as well . what if i am not treated to coffee /tea mugs and all but i can live without that . In case of any life threatening situation or some thing these plastics won;t save my life but build quality and a well mannered car will

A.S.S i agree is a sore thumb for FIAT but that's improving as seen in other Below thread .

Team-BHP - View Poll Results

68.53 % of the voters on the thread thinks that their A.S.S meets their expectation or is above .

there is a scope for improvement and they are improving .Better A.S.S network is not created over night . Even Maruti took 30 long years to be where they are today. comparing that to TATA / FIAT , i guess, that have made good progress . nothing changes overnight. Trust me when i say that " dealer salesman are wary of getting FIAT customer care ladies calls, they are not only given a excellent peace of stick but made to toe the genuine customer line as well. i saved approx 5k thanks to these CC ladies as dealer was hell bend on charging me 5 K for logistics / transportation charges ". i have personally seen this with a dealer in back waters of rajasthan from where i picked up my car .

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

IMO, this thread is turning out to be another fiat bashing thread

Please understand all those who have demanded better Interiors, Performance and After sales support do not necessarily hate Fiat. Amongst them there are Fiat owners like me who bought their cars. Is it unfair to ask for improvements?

Everybody here is asking for 1.6 multijet engines, better plastics and better A.S.S. and all, but how many of us are ready to plonk the money when we will have these. IMO none!!!!! .

I would seriously consider the Linea for purchase if the performance in Diesel variant is at par with other cars in competition(If i were looking for a sub 10L car). When i bought Punto i had an open budget, it's only Punto appealed to me more than Linea and performance was not much different.

A manufacturer doesn;t make a car keeping enthusiasts in mind ( FIAT still launched T-jet ) . they are last in their consideration. a CAR is meant for common man who looks for a VFM factor and IMO both linea and Punto scores high on VFM factor . none of the car manufacturer can survive on a community of 1lakh car enthusiasts in nation of 100 crores . they need no's to survive and earn money.

The problem is their cars are not appealing to Masses either and most enthusiasts are shying away due to mediocre performance.

It's very easy to criticize sitting in viewers box. I have just bought one 15 days back and Immediate reaction of friend who owns a swift was

your car has got better interiors than mine and has a solid build quality . thumps up on my purchase from him . remember i did;t asked for his comments and he is a seasoned drivers .

Not everyone here is sitting in boxes here and commenting, there are Fiat car owners amongst those who have commented. I have owned a Swift VDi too.

problem is that most people are living in dream world, dreaming falling plastics from FIAT car's and car's struggling to start off the first gear and swifts / i20's zooming past them to glory . personally , Car's build quality , driving manners and reliability matters more to me than plastics & resale value. I am getting decent A.S.S as well . what if i am not treated to coffee /tea mugs and all but i can live without that . In case of any life threatening situation or some thing these plastics won;t save my life but build quality and a well mannered car will

Isn't it too early to declare the after sales support good within 15 days of buying the car.

My Punto is not exactly reliable. Car broken down on Road(once in middle of nowhere, other time fortunately in City) twice within 35k kms, dealer(Joshi Auto, Chd) asking to take an appointment 3 days prior so that emergency breakdown can be checked(forget repaired
). Still awaiting parts ordered months ago and still no trace, dealers unwilling to take care of the car, Can it become any worse?

Now if i ask for better support or some improvements, Is it really Fiat bashing?

[jazzrockz]

I dont think anybody here is bashing Fiat. Everybody feels for Fiat, everybody wants it to be on the top! That is why these opinions are forthcoming.
But one has to realise that we are a very small minority of car buyers. Most of them have never been online checking a car! None of them have ever been to forums to check the pros and cons. If that had been the case I think Fiat would have sold a lot more.
Dearly wish Fiat does better in India.

[Palio_2005]

@.anshuman - I agree with you.

Fiat is missing something and that is very clearly the rock solid QC/ reliability which one has with other brands. One always has the fear at the back of the mind (you have already experienced it) that one should not be stranded in the middle of no where hunting for a service station.

This is exactly what pushes everyone towards other brands - reliability

[Naparajito]

The upgraded car might look like this. This time fiat willl add embelisher on the boot, same as the Brazilian car.

[vb-saan]

I am a big fan of Fiat cars, and hence the thoughts below.

It is a known fact that the Fiat brand, in general is not on par with some other Japanese or European brands when it comes to QC and reliability. But from what I have seen, most of the Fiat owners and Fiat lovers don’t crib about those much. This is not the case with Fiat cars alone. Here in Singapore, I know folks who own a Fiat Bravo, or an Alfa 159 (which is Fiat owned brand). Their cars may have quite a few reliability issues, but they feel that the car connect with them on an emotional level, and is happy to live with the glitches. The difference here is that the support they get from the dealer / service center are pretty good, and the folks there know about their cars pretty well, and always keep the owners well informed of their cars.

Now I feel this is where we have an issue. From the forum itself, I hear that the support from the AS&S is quite a joke (most recently an incident from Urban_Nomad), and also even issues like car returned back in bad condition after service.

Fiat management, from their part can very well understand this, and can take measures to counter this. But they tend to ignore these issues. I hear that they treat the customer with a bottle of exquisite Italian wine on the Purchase of a T-Jet. How nice it would have been if that mindset get extended to their post sales support as well. If they work on this point, along with a better diesel motor, it could easily revive the brand. And maybe this is the last chance for them

[sethuv]

Originally Posted by akhilesh

No offence but I find it decidedly funny when people post comments like - 'the glovebox was loose and he booked car xyz' or 'the salesman didnt attend properly so he booked car abc' sounds more like an excuse rather than a reason. Because if you can't put up with a loose glovebox, how can you put with a three cylinder 74 bhp diesel lest you arent interested in the engine in the car you are buying.

I think you have missed the context here. A loose glovebox in a display car just represents the attitude of the company. If they cant have a good display car, then how does one get trust on the company's service.
I haven't driven the Polo TDI, but my cousin finds it lovely. However Polo has its own share of problems about careless salespersons and average service atleast till now.

[akhilesh]

Originally Posted by sethuv

I think you have missed the context here. A loose glovebox in a display car just represents the attitude of the company. If they cant have a good display car, then how does one get trust on the company's service.
I haven't driven the Polo TDI, but my cousin finds it lovely. However Polo has its own share of problems about careless salespersons and average service atleast till now.

And careless salesperson and average service does not?

[sethuv]

Originally Posted by akhilesh

And careless salesperson and average service does not?

If i were to buy a car it would and certainly from his buying experience, i would not think of buying a VW car for quite a while. I do not like the company telling me which colour I should buy(they do indirectly at least, by delivering cars with certain colours earlier and certain other colours insanely delayed).These didn't matter for my cousin because he was fascinated by the thought of owning a german car