Team-BHP - Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years away

Mod Note: Team-BHP's Official Review of the Honda City has been uploaded at this link. Please continue the discussion over on the review thread.

Read this in Business Standard today.

Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition

Finally Honda wakes up to the reality in India - given a choice diesel outsells and the price disparity between diesel and petrol is unlikely to close. Honda says, “The rapid dieselisation of the market has happened only in the last one year, as the price difference between diesel and petrol has gone up from Rs 10 to Rs 21...." Any Indian auto observer would have seen this coming at least 3 years ago. Vento's lead would have been the last straw.

In fact I learn that the pre-owned pricing gap between petrol and diesel has widened far beyond what the ex-showroom price would indicate. That may be an additional driver for buyer to choose diesel over petrol

Honda says it will take them 2 years or more to develop an engine.

Cheers,

Atlast Honda acknowledges the need for diesel engines. It says it might take them 2 years to build that diesel engine. So should we expect low sales for Honda for the next 2 years. By the current trend the sales of City might not improve. Best they can hope is to manage the current figures which I think will be difficult with the new Verna and Fiesta. Nonetheless it is good news for future car buyers

Wow, 2 years. That would mean earliest by 2013 Start that Honda would be ready with a diesel engine. But by then would the Indian car scene be the same?

My guess:
1. Heavy tax for buying diesel cars upfront to make up for the subsidies and tax exemptions on fuel. That would mean diesel cars then would cost atleast 2 lakhs more than a petrol car of similar capacity.

or

2. Diesel car engines should run only on low sulphur and low sulphur fuel for cars will be made available at all bunks at the same price as Petrol.

or

3. Diesel will slowly catch up with the Petrol prices as the global crude goes up.

or

4. Petrol will be double the price of Diesel and diesel car owners will make merry of the subsidies that are given as it is today.

So a probability of 1/4 for diesel/petrol to remain the same.
Honda, think about the new small car.
Forget diesel

At last finally, Honda have decided to go Diesel!

They already have the 2.2L i-CTDi for larger vehicles like the Accord and CR-V. A smaller 1.4l in various states of tune will be a good option to power everything from the Brio to the City. Maybe even the Civic, courtesy Twin-Turbo power :D? Its not impossible considering the developments that have taken place over the past and the new developments that will take place in 2 years' time, the time needed for Honda to bring their diesel engine.

If Honda could make hybrid drive train a little cheaper (on the one they use on CRZ which is cheaper compared to the old gens), they should forget about diesels.
Hope Honda treads a new path without following others. It will give them clear edge over others globally since Indian numbers are not that great for their overall bottomline.

For the joy of driving needs petrol engines :)

Finally, Honda realizes the need for a diesel engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinya_jag (Post 2349676)

Wow, 2 years. That would mean earliest by 2013 Start that Honda would be ready with a diesel engine. But by then would the Indian car scene be the same?

Although what you say can be an important factor in 2 years, I feel a diesel engine in Honda's armour will help it eventually. The need of the hour is a huge variety in the product line-up.

Right now, lack of diesel is probably their biggest handicap. City and Civic are both slipping.

If they can come up with diesel for Brio, Jazz and City (which they mostly are), they will get to the front of the respective segments.

Although ~1.2-1.4l diesel would be new for Honda, I'm sure the public will lap it up quickly, given Honda's reputation. (The way the public took to Etios)

Well, welcome to real India, Honda.

People had been demanding diesel engines from Honda for long. But only now have they felt the need for the same. The success of the newest kid on the block, VW Vento, who did his homework well, also must have contributed in no mean measure to Honda taking such a decision.

But, I wonder if it is a question of too little, too late. Honda sales have also slipped due to the tsunami. When they finally get everything in order and bring out a diesel, they might that they are no longer in the premium position where we had placed them. They might find their position to be just like what it is in other countries - A very good, reliable brand - no more than that. The time when they could demand and get premiums might just be over.

IMO the reporters of Business Standard have been smoking grass.

They have just reported what the Honda Management must have realised after the recent drubbing of the City, but, there is nothing concrete in their report. Many people know that there is 2.2L Diesel (DTec) that drives the CRV & Accord in Europe, but, that is also where the Diesel options for Honda end. There is no Diesel in Jazz & Civic in Europe, which could have found home in City's engine bay.

Even if they are planning something, it will take at least 5 years for Honda as the Japs at Honda believe in loooong term planning rather than immediate/ short terms plans, as evident from their statements regarding Jazz failure some time back.

I am sorry but, I feel that this report is just to fill few blank areas in the print.

BS gets thumbs down from me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CARDEEP (Post 2349773)

+1 to that. There are some reports, which just just by reading them for the first time, give you an impression that they are hoax. Although Honda is planning small capacity diesel and have been developing it for a while now, there is nothing on the horizon for the next 'few' years (maybe 3 -4 yrs). Though I am happy that Honda acknowledged that diesel is the need of the hour, not only in India but around the world.

Also, direct injection-turbo petrols please, before you lose the petrol advantage too (it must hurt their EGO that Hyundai has gone mass market with direct injection engines, while Honda has not)

@ Cardeep- There is no Diesel in Jazz & Civic in Europe, which could have found home in City's engine bay.

BS gets thumbs down from me.
[/quote]

Correction, there is already a 2.2 litre diesel civic in the european market. see below:

Rating:

On the road price: £16,325 - £23,220
Futuristic yet well laid out cabin, punchy engines, rear seats, big boot, warranty, road manners

Against : Poor visibility, tiny rear door apertures, slightly coarse 1.8-litre engine, heavy tailgate

The Civic is available with two petrol engines, but it's the 2.2-litre i-CTDi diesel that's our favourite. This fantastic engine is free-revving, impressively refined and punchy, too. It remains our favourite diesel in the family hatchback class, and is preferable to the 1.8-litre petrol which is vocal in its mid-range and lacks torque which leads to downchanges on the motorway – but the slick, fast shift means changing gears is no chore. It is also economical and sprightly against the clock. The steering is sharp and, although it's not as much fun as a Ford Focus, it's neat, nimble and good to drive. Only on rougher tarmac does it become slightly nervous. The three-door takes on a sportier edge, and proves composed and agile in corners. Stability control is standard as well, and the system is unobtrusive.

This is great plan from Honda but with a single , but the biggest question would be will they launch the diesel vehicles on time by 2013 you will have more Competition from Renaults and Peugeot coming and god only know where the crude prices will be and if the Government initiates the Diesel deregulation then it will be whole filed to be playing on

If anything needs a diesel, its the Civic and to some extend Accord- both of which are getting thrashed by their diesel competition! City still has very high sales for the segment, and can still do respectable numbers for some more time.

Since they already have diesel Civic, Accord and CR-V in other markets, I wonder why they dont bring it here in India!

Quote:

Originally Posted by srishiva

Very true. I too feel this should be their approach. 2 years is a long time and the market requirement could be something which is drastically different from what it is today. I feel Honda has missed the boat as far as diesel engines are concerned. So they might as well invest the efforts into a new area and be prepared for the new market which could open up.