[ravib]

Originally Posted by noopster

You can't sell millions of cars if you offer cars that aren't "good to drive". Period.

+1.

Originally Posted by akhilesh

No prejudice here but I have never come across a Hyundai in India which is good to drive and that includes their latest and greatest i20. That also leads me to conclude that other people brands or mass brands like Ford are better engineered. Only if Ford had launched the Fiesta hatch, it would have made my choice far more easy.

This could be your personal opinion and your liking to particular driving style, but that need not be a fact and doesn't mean Hyundai is not selling a car which is good to drive. "Good to drive" is actually context based. Otherwise, why thousands and thousands of people across the country, (of which many car specialists), buy Hyundai if they are not good to drive. I don't see it is correct to compare with some other car and state its not good to drive. Every car has its own unique features, pro & cons.

-Ravi

[shortbread]

Top Gear is more of a factual entertainment programme based on cars. They slate almost anything French, American, Porsche (Mr Clarkson especially) or Korean. On the other hand Alfas (which now a days are just dressed up glorified Fiats except for the 8C) are cheered on even though Top Gear themselves say its crap. They just reflect British prejudice but also take into account that Hyundai's sales in the UK have been growing at approximately 9% over the past two years with their 2010 sales crossing 60k for the first time in 2010. Proudly a major contribution comes from the Indian made i10.

But there is no denying that their models are mostly not meant for enthusiaists and are focussed more on getting the job done.

[arvi86]

Originally Posted by vinya_jag

I didn't know that. I never saw a Hyundai or a Kia reviewed or driven in Top gear/ Fifth Gear/ Wheels. And also, we cannot exactly match with the UK sentiments. [A few days back, they were testing 4 top executive saloons in a park, and they were not even ready to see the Porsche. Can you imagine turning away from a Porsche. A white huge gleaming Porsche saloon, and they bash it.

+1. I have seen numerous instances of the famed Top Gear trio (esp JC) disliking Porsches in general and the 911 in particular. Aren't Porsches considered to be amongst the top driver's cars ever produced? Anyway, we are starting to go off-topic here. This discussion is all about Hyundai and Kia and as most have said, they are the next big thing in the industry.

Originally Posted by shortbread

Top Gear is more of a factual entertainment programme based on cars. They slate almost anything French, American, Porsche (Mr Clarkson especially) or Korean.

You said it man. TG is nothing but sheer entertainment with cars starring in all the episodes.

[akhilesh]

Originally Posted by noopster

That's quite a sweeping statement. Care to elucidate?

Well its my view point and that is after driving Hyundai's owned by friends and family for long. By the looks of it you dont seem to agree and I respect that but thats my point of view and I stand by it.

Originally Posted by noopster

If you mean they don't have any models that are enthusiast cars, probably you're right, otherwise I don't see the sense in what you said. The i10 is great to drive in the city, and so is I imagine the i20. The Accent/Verna are lovely to drive too, except that their boaty handling at high speeds disappoints the enthusiast in one.

You don't have to be an enthusiast to note boat like behavior at anything over 100 kph in Accent which gets even worse with more people in the car because it bobs and bounces all over the place.
I drove my cousin's i10 VTVT in city and would anyday prefer Ritz of even the Beat over it simply because I felt the steering to be rubbish with rubber band effect which makes it want to come to the center straight ahead position always.

Originally Posted by noopster

You can't sell millions of cars if you offer cars that aren't "good to drive". Period.

If sales are the only basis, Alto is the best handling car in India along with Wagon-R and Santro but thats not true and we know that. In the last n number of years, I haven't come across a single person who had bought a car on its merit - which means the engine, ride & handling or the overall drive.

[shortbread]

@ Akhilesh

I agree Hyundai's cars dont have the absolute best ride and handling in the market. But if that was the most important criteria the Palio should have set the sales charts on fire when launched.

Not all consumers are looking for a 0-100 time or how fast he can take a bend. What Hyundai does best is to meet customer expectations whether its quality, engine options, hassle free ownership etc.... That is Hyundais strength and its what they do best.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by noopster

You can't sell millions of cars if you offer cars that aren't "good to drive". Period.

It's the definition of "good to drive" that matters.

For the millions it's super light steering, cushy suspension, super-silent engine, etc
For the thousands (enthusiast) it's handling, driver feel, etc
That will always reflect in the number of cars sold.

[Gooney]

Originally Posted by Daewood

It's the definition of "good to drive" that matters.

For the millions it's super light steering, cushy suspension, super-silent engine, etc
For the thousands (enthusiast) it's handling, driver feel, etc
That will always reflect in the number of cars sold.

I totally agree with you on the fact that the definition of "good to drive" is totally subjective. I, having never driven anything beyond 70 horses, am nobody to comment on driving dynamics. But I can safely say that when we compare Hyundai's India offerings with that of its competitors, there would not be such glaring differences (driving-dynamics-wise) that would be a deal breaker. An i20 owner will vouch for its driveabilty with equal frenzy as a Swift's owner, considering both being enthusiasts. However, giving gyaan to a bimmer owner about a Sonata's 'handling, driver feel, etc' is what I would call unnecessary talks.

Originally Posted by shortbread

What Hyundai does best is to meet customer expectations whether its quality, engine options, hassle free ownership etc.... That is Hyundais strength and its what they do best.

And as shotbread pointed out, it is the complete package (decent products, better aftersales, understanding demographics, etc.) that matters. IMHO, brushing off Hyundai just because it does not make cars of enthusiasts is totally wrong. C'mon, I personally know enthusiasts trading off branded-enthusiast-cars like the Gypsy for a bland WagonR for a variety of reasons, marriage being one of the most common affliction.

[noopster]

Folks, while the definition of "good to drive" is definitely subjective, what I was objecting to is the sweeping statement that Hyundai does not make cars that are good to drive. Since akhilesh has stated unequivocally that he stands by that statement and that he accepts my view as an alternative opinion, there is nothing more to discuss!

Hyundai has matured enough to launch an enthusiast's car in India sometime soon. I was hoping it would be the Verna RB but alas! Not to be.

[aravind.anand]

A wide spread service network. Decent quality and fit and finish. Average handling, but Good ride, very decent engines (Excellent diesel mills ) Reliability somewhere between the Germans and the Japs, Now Hyundai also come with phenomenal styling with the new Fluidic design language! I love Hyundai

[B103]

The first car which I owned was a Hyundai Getz. I wanted to book a Swift (in 2005) but it had a long waiting period which made me go at the Getz.

Below are my some of my personal grouses again from my personal experience. I would like to attach a disclaimer that these are my personal views.

(1) Getz was quite costly but devoid of features on the other end

(2) Excatly after one year (warranty ends after 1 yr) the winding motor of the driver side seat belt failed. I was asked to get an extended warranty (Rs 4000) and the seat belt was replaced for me under the extended warranty

(3) Numerous fluid spills from engine parts under the hood. It used to happen quite frequently

(4) With a 1.3L petrol engine, car used to struggle on highways. Engine creates quite some clatter and do nothing when speed reaches near 110 kmph. Not a great engine for sure

(5) Poor resale value. I understand that the only car from Hyundai stable which fetches a decent resale value is Santro. This reflected when I had to sell the Getz

(5) Hyundai service centers in Bangalore are not very forthright. I always felt that they want to grab maximum possible money from you in the guise of servicing. May be they have seperate financial targets for servicing departments

Agreed that I could see more Hyundai cars in North America in 2007 than when I visited the place in 2004. They are catching up quick with the likes of Toyota and VW. However, every single person I talked to, who owned a Hyundai SUV or mini van in North America, mentioned that they went for it because of the serious price difference involved.

This does not mean that they are producing poor quality cars. For sure, they are producing decent vehicles at affordable prices. For a middle class familiy, it makes sense esp when they go for larger vehicles like a SUV or mini van.

Personally, I may not buy a Hyundai again until and unless there is a marked improvement in overall quality. The classic case of Verna CRDI is a bit terrifying: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...nsafe-car.html. Hope the new fluidic Verna is blemishless atleast in safety department.

[Kimified]

Originally Posted by Gooney

I totally agree with you on the fact that the definition of "good to drive" is totally subjective. I, having never driven anything beyond 70 horses, am nobody to comment on driving dynamics. But I can safely say that when we compare Hyundai's India offerings with that of its competitors, there would not be such glaring differences (driving-dynamics-wise) that would be a deal breaker. An i20 owner will vouch for its driveabilty with equal frenzy as a Swift's owner, considering both being enthusiasts. However, giving gyaan to a bimmer owner about a Sonata's 'handling, driver feel, etc' is what I would call unnecessary talks.

And as shotbread pointed out, it is the complete package (decent products, better aftersales, understanding demographics, etc.) that matters. IMHO, brushing off Hyundai just because it does not make cars of enthusiasts is totally wrong. C'mon, I personally know enthusiasts trading off branded-enthusiast-cars like the Gypsy for a bland WagonR for a variety of reasons, marriage being one of the most common affliction.

Ok. I don't want to make this a swift vs i20 comparison. But since you brought up a point about it, Having driven the Swift vxi for 2 years and the I20 Crdi over the past 7 months, Given an option, I would always choose the i20 over the swift (Be it in high speed highway runs or a city drive). Not because i own it now, but because its more fun to drive (At least for me). That's how subjective "Good to drive" can be . The only other car which i liked in the very limited number of cars i have driven was the Civic. Didn't like Verna petrol, Corolla or the ANHC .

Originally Posted by shortbread

@ Akhilesh

I agree Hyundai's cars dont have the absolute best ride and handling in the market. But if that was the most important criteria the Palio should have set the sales charts on fire when launched.

Not all consumers are looking for a 0-100 time or how fast he can take a bend. What Hyundai does best is to meet customer expectations whether its quality, engine options, hassle free ownership etc.... That is Hyundais strength and its what they do best.

On a lighter note, Doesn't the Verna Crdi and i20 Crdi have the best in segment 0-100 times ?

[radek]

Santro's success in India was surprising even for Koreans, given that it was competing against Matiz, when introduced in India. One of my Korean customers who was visiting India was surprised to see Atos outselling Matiz. He said Matiz is much better car than Atos (Santro). Not sure how it would have been if Daewoo had remained on scene.

[Skyline GT-R]

This Hyundai people mover with decent diesel engine can beat the heat out of Innova in Indian market.

[KPS]

Originally Posted by B103

(1) Getz was quite costly but devoid of features on the other end

(2) Excatly after one year (warranty ends after 1 yr) the winding motor of the driver side seat belt failed. I was asked to get an extended warranty (Rs 4000) and the seat belt was replaced for me under the extended warranty

(3) Numerous fluid spills from engine parts under the hood. It used to happen quite frequently

(4) With a 1.3L petrol engine, car used to struggle on highways. Engine creates quite some clatter and do nothing when speed reaches near 110 kmph. Not a great engine for sure

(5) Poor resale value. I understand that the only car from Hyundai stable which fetches a decent resale value is Santro. This reflected when I had to sell the Getz

(5) Hyundai service centers in Bangalore are not very forthright. I always felt that they want to grab maximum possible money from you in the guise of servicing. May be they have seperate financial targets for servicing departments

Agreed that I could see more Hyundai cars in North America in 2007 than when I visited the place in 2004. They are catching up quick with the likes of Toyota and VW. However, every single person I talked to, who owned a Hyundai SUV or mini van in North America, mentioned that they went for it because of the serious price difference involved.

This does not mean that they are producing poor quality cars. For sure, they are producing decent vehicles at affordable prices. For a middle class familiy, it makes sense esp when they go for larger vehicles like a SUV or mini van.

Personally, I may not buy a Hyundai again until and unless there is a marked improvement in overall quality. The classic case of Verna CRDI is a bit terrifying: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...nsafe-car.html. Hope the new fluidic Verna is blemishless atleast in safety department.

Even in that thread it was concluded that it is largely the fault of the drivers

However B103 your experience must not be discounted as you some times get unlucky with a car. I do hope the next Hyundai you buy in the future will give you a better experience.

Cheers

KPS

[hossdoc]

Hyundai's success comes as no surprise to me. Having owned (still cannot let go of her) an Accent CRDI for the last 8 years, and a Santro in the past and having driven several of their models here and abroad i have only good things to say about them.
It is only snobbery that makes people discount Hyundai in favor of Japanese or European cars, often at their own peril. All cars have their plus and minus points and you cannot please everyone, but it is those that please most that succeed and Hyundai has done a stellar job in this regard.
Really how many cars are "good to drive" out of the box? Most cars are tuned for day to day commuting and hence lose out on driving dynamics. I also now own a 320 D and can tell you that while it is fabulous to drive, drive here used in the pure sense of the word, as a day to day car on roads here in Cochin, it totally sucks! The ride is horrible and it is a pain on narrow roads. But on long trips it is awesome.
I have also driven all over the country in my beloved Accent and she has given me much pleasure. A few simple tweaks like 15 inch alloys with 195/50/15 Yoko S drives totally transformed her handling and made her as much fun to drive as any other car.
In the city the Santro is probably the best car i have ever driven for reasons anyone who has driven a Santro will be familiar with.
Hyundai has ignored the prejudices and the snobs and they have invested heavily in R&D to give people what they WANT. They have LISTENED to the car buying public and have improved steadily. They have tailored their products to suit local conditions and have not skimped on quality, features or after sales service. The market has just responded in kind and that is what we see in the figures.
Hats off to you Hyundai!