[kaks15]

Originally Posted by azeemhafiz

I think its more perception based and not exactly factual.
With my ownership of my Swift i've come to realize that all brands make their mistakes, my friends fuel pump in the Swift was packed on the way back home from the showroom and then again packed up in 10k kms. Another realization is that its not the brand that builds good After Sales and Service, its the individuals that we deal with in the dealership.

Totally!! My friend, puts up in NCR owner of Swift and SX4, is always so frustrated by the *** of the 2-3 dealers present there!! He says staff is great at the showroom but workshops are untrained and not at all courteous.
Imagine the plight of the poor fellow, has to go to Delhi to get his vehicle serviced/repaired every time!!

[anubhavarya]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

It is really unfortunate that you have had these issues with your car. I am no way saying that VW is flawless. What I meant was that in general people have been happy with there cars. An odd case here and there is not enough to dump the whole company as unreliable.

My new NHC in 2006 had a leak from the petrol tank at just 600kms. The showroom people took the car and said they do not knows how the leak has developed and replaced it and handed me a bill for the changed parts( dont rem the exact amount but it was expensive). My dad gave them an earful and they just waived the whole thing off. Till date the car consumes more engine oil then a normal honda should and again the service people haven't been able to diagnose a fault anywhere. Otherwise the car hasn't given any trouble. So do we say Honda is un-reliable?

I understand the general people argument. And you are probably right on the basis that the company genuinely tells you they do not understand the problem. While on the other hand when several parts in a car fail due to manufacturer defect and the workshop denies service in the end, then yes somebody somewhere in this whole chain is not doing their job. They are choosing not to respond. Yes, I love my car even after all of this. I have not lost faith yet, but to tell you I really do not care how much cards and flowers VW is sending to other people. In my case and my friend Shakib's, all we are getting are vague responses, negative answers, negligence, and after all that ignorance and refusal of service.

So am I blaming Volkswagen for this? I don't know. But I know this, that we are not the lucky bunch who got flowers when our cars were stranded and even a reason or analysis reports on what exactly happened. Instead we got misleading workshop members working as a whole ( Actually telling me there are no guarantees if this problem is fixed) And cars filled with greasy hands and a bill which if my car did not have warranty I would be saving up just for spares.

I'm not opposing your opinion, just telling you a parallel one exists

[drmohitg]

I agree with that. VW should be more forthcoming in all this and try to resolve your problem. I hate when these so called big companies with there big plans for India come here and start acting all strange. Instead of the professional standards that one expects from them (given the foreign work ethic tag), they rather quickly start following the Desi system where customer is only valuable until he hasn't given you the money.

Hope your problem gets resolved. And more importantly hope that VW doesnt do a SKODA on us yet again.

[souravc]

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

A Vento I know, which is just 5 months old and required Music system HU changes twice on account of erratic behavior (replacements done free of costs by VW) and the rattling problems caused by a loose front mud guard, creaking noises from the front door (which the service center bluntly said it can't help as it was a design flaw by VW ) I was wondering what all those car magazines actually meant by build quality! Now I don't consider the VW or the Skoda as a reliable brand.

Basing one's impression on the impression of what you saw with one car is hasty - Honda recalled lakhs of car for a fault that they acknowledged quite a few months after they found out , that too for such a critical component in the engine block - going by it Honda should be hanged publicly and should be shunned completely! Toyota also had their fair share of long drawn quality problems . Are they to be considered as very unreliable too ?

The moot point is that a manufacturing process can never be flawless as the cost of a flawless process far outweighs the cost benefits . QC is not designed to catch each and every flaw, it works on statistical probability - it it were to be flawless then no car manufacturer would give warranties !

[aravind.anand]

Originally Posted by souravc

Basing one's impression on the impression of what you saw with one car is hasty - Honda recalled lakhs of car for a fault that they acknowledged quite a few months after they found out , that too for such a critical component in the engine block - going by it Honda should be hanged publicly and should be shunned completely! Toyota also had their fair share of long drawn quality problems . Are they to be considered as very unreliable too ?

True, but having to replace the music system twice was not at all reasonable! And claiming that the door squaks are a design flaw really tarnished the reputation of VW (in my mind that is) And I actually think that Honda did a good job by recalling as our country has no rules whatsoever regarding recalling of vehicles.

[souravc]

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

True, but having to replace the music system twice was not at all reasonable! And claiming that the door squaks are a design flaw really tarnished the reputation of VW (in my mind that is) And I actually think that Honda did a good job by recalling as our country has no rules whatsoever regarding recalling of vehicles.

Well VW does not make music systems , there are vendors such as Blaupunkt (Vento's are Blau..) , etc who supply the equipment so blaming VW for the music system is a tad unfair ! Its laughable that door squeaking in one car should be attributed to a design flaw. Then most , if not all, cars of the make should have squeaky doors . I own a Vento and none of the doors squeak. Its simple common sense , check out the doors of 5 cars of the same make and find out how many are squeaking - let your friend not be taken for a ride!
I own a Swift and the front window has a flawed design - because of the huge size of the window and consequently the glass (which is heavier than sheet metal) it rattles . In most Swifts it rattles and that's a design flaw .

The other take on Honda recalling was that if it was a Tata, or a Maruti doing the same we would be crying hoarse that there's a quality issue - I cannot but help agree with the sentiment that we are over generous towards Honda when they have cocked up big time . If Honda charges a premium (i.e. sells overpriced cars) they better make sure that such mass recalls on super critical engine components do not happen since thats a systemic issue rather than a one off case. One pertinent question that remained unanswered in the Honda recall episode (this was mentioned in the T-BHP thread on the topic) was that while Honda announced the recall in Feb 2011 for cars manufactured between Nov 2008 to Dec 2009 , what about the cars manufactured between Jan 2010 and Jan 2011 ? Are we to assume that the fault was rectified in Jan 2010? Then I guess it would be reasonable to assume that Honda would have known about the fault and kept quiet during the period ( unless of course by mere chance the fault process was self rectified ! )

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Even in the US market, those who want a trouble free vehicle go for Japanese vehicles. Those who want to flaunt their wealth go for the German cars. After all, owning a German vehicle is akin to owning an Elephant in the old days. You can buy one, but only a very well to do person can maintain one. In a way I see ownership of a German vehicle a statement to your wealth - if you can maintain one you must be exceedingly well off!

A Merc, Beemer or an Audi ; certainly yes
A VW in the same bracket; not so sure!

IMHO, the underlying concern is what will happen once the warranty period is over. If the *** visits are as frequent as now, it's going to be quite expensive

[thesilentone]

Buying a German car is definitely going to be more costly than buying a Japanese/Korean car in the long run. Most of Volkswagen's sales are due to the novelty factor and also due to 'high' the general people get of buying a German car little realising that the cost of ownership is definitely going to be 'high'.

How many people factor in the maintenance cost when buying a car? Other than a knowledgeable buyer, it is in most cases only the on-road price and features that are discussed by the prospective buyer. In my opinion, I feel that Volkswagen's sales will see a sharp drop once the actual running costs start coming out. My 5 year old Honda City does not see service charges beyond 2K.

[ACM]

VW has never been know to have the best quality globally as well and yes the Japs and koreans are indeed ahead of the germans, well ahead in this aspect.

VW cars have great features and build quality (if it can be called quality) but they do tend to incorporate a lot of new cutting edge features that have a higher failure rate than the more tried and tested stuff for example the CVT is not the ideal kind of AT gearbox and is no fun to drive compared to the DSG but the DSG are kown to have a shorter life. It is similar with a lot of the good stuff that VW / Audi / Skoda and for that matter Mercedese & BMW bring to the fore.

Also manytimes we buy a german car with a really cool and new feature that has a shorter life span and does fail in a few years time (requiring an expensive replacement) but when compared to say jap car which is seemingly more reliable one does need to realise that it is not a fair comparision to compare a car with new feature vs one without, its just not an apple to apple comparo.

Hence a Passat vs Superb vs 3 series vs A4 vs C Class is a still a better comparo as compare to vs the Accord which has so few features in the first place and hence so much less that can go wrong.

I feel that as long as the critical stuff has as a long life one has an option to try out the newere stuff or take a base model without those features and hence a more reliable life.

[hellmet]

Attitude vise, I did not like my experience at the VW showroom. I stepped in with a helmet in my hand, so I was handed over a pamphlet for the Polo by the attendant. No questions asked. They probably thought I couldn't afford anything better. And when they said "4 months waiting period", I walked out.

[VW2010]

They probably thought I couldn't afford anything better

Not sure why these folks are even doing sales. I thought sales is about convincing someone going for a polo to end up with a Vento. That i would call a smart salesmanship.

Did you try out any other dealership if available?

[noopster]

@hellmet- that is neither here nor there. VW India sucks at pre-sales- that much is clear from teh Polo and Vento threads as well as almost EVERY ownership review, including mine. What is being discussed here is reliability of the cars they sell.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by VW2010

Not sure why these folks are even doing sales. I thought sales is about convincing someone going for a polo to end up with a Vento. That i would call a smart salesmanship.

Did you try out any other dealership if available?

Actually in a few of the past months VW has indeed sold more Vento than Polo.

But do agree that the Germans can seem to be a bit rude due to the forthright manner in which they approach things and it is odd to see Indians in a German car showroom not really getting the meaning behing that attitude. Instead of seeming cold and percise they end up appearing uninterested and arrogant at times. It is a fine line. Even if one does not have a car to sell for a few months one needs to creat a brand impact on the customer who walks in for the future.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by ACM

But do agree that the Germans can seem to be a bit rude due to the forthright manner in which they approach things and it is odd to see Indians in a German car showroom not really getting the meaning behing that attitude. Instead of seeming cold and percise they end up appearing uninterested and arrogant at times. It is a fine line. Even if one does not have a car to sell for a few months one needs to creat a brand impact on the customer who walks in for the future.

+1 to that ACM;
I met a VW guy on a flight from Frankfurt some time ago. He seemed very confused about why Indians dont want to pay extra for a good quality product. As he spoke further, he mentioned the lackadaisical attitude of the Indian counterparts at the factory too. I do have some experience of working with German people, but for others his tone could have sounded condescending. Almost like he was talking down from his high chair.

And we know how this goes down with some of us

[channelv]

Couple of months back, I did comment on the Vento vs TJet thread that most people are giving lot of brownie points for VW in terms of better service and reliability even though the product was very new to market. I did even remind everybody the same had happened when Skoda(VW owned) was launched here and everybody was initially all praise for the reliability and *** of the brand. I was branded "Anti VW" for my comments.

My point is, every brand makes lemons but what matters is how often would an unfortunate customer ends up with one. Just because some owners had good ownership experience doesn't make VW a good brand, its all about how 'less' often a customer ends up with a bad product and how well VW deals with the issue.

VW puts a premium on all their vehicles compared with brands like Ford, Hyundai, Suzuki etc and the reason why people are ready to pay for it is because they expect better products. But if the reliability of VW is comparable with others then what is the merit in going for a VW?

Someone did say that the complaints are from OE products so VW cannot be complained, I find it completely illogical. When someone buys a finished product from VW, they expect VW to be accountable for the hard earned money he/she puts for the product irrespective of how it is built.

I sure hope VW use all the learning and clear out all the glitches fast, I really don't want them to go the Skoda path.