[blackasta]

Originally Posted by bkbkr1212

As much as you would like to believe it, let us admit that Hyundai is nowhere near it's Jap counterparts. Not even Suzuki, let alone Honda and Toyota.
There are lots of bells and whistles in their i20 and now in ANHV.
But people wouldn't (shouldn't) base their purchase decision just on that.
The only thing I like about ANHV are all 4 disc brakes and 6 airbags and other safety features.
The ANHV doesn't even feel like a 126 bhp car.

Would you please elaborate the benchmarks and criteria on which you made this statement?

[shortbread]

@ bkbr

Where does this perceived notion of engineering superiority come from?? Any real reason to back this up, because honestly I cannot find any. On the other hand if you ask me how Hyundai's taken the game away from Honda here's a few pointers (borrowed from various threads):

• three RWD cars,
• a RWD and FWD sports coupe (genesis and veloster respectively),
• diesel engines (way way ahead)
• The Hyundai Equus is more expensive than any car in the Honda stable including their Acura badge
• Two V8 models in their line up the Genesis and the Equus, Honda has never made a V8 road car. They chickened out of the new V10 NSX project.
• Hyundai have already revealed the 2012 Genesis R with a 429bhp direct injection V8, a much more potent car than any in Honda's line up.

[pamishra]

Note from the Team-BHP Support : Please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like................this. Thanks

Originally Posted by bharatbs

There are rumours that the current Honda City will get a facelift and other minor interior upgrades and the new version will be launched in October/November 2011 in time for Diwali.

Looks like a mid life upgrade (considering the ANHC was introduced in late 2008)

Is this true? Anyone heard More?

I wish this is true...i hope they also add ACC, Bluetooth, rear sensors/camera, auto fold ORVM, start/stop button, smart key...wow, it would be a complete package then...I KNOW I AM ASKING FOR TOO MUCH

[shamanth]

Originally Posted by pamishra

I wish this is true...i hope they also add ACC, Bluetooth, rear sensors/camera, auto fold ORVM, start/stop button, smart key...wow, it would be a complete package then...I KNOW I AM ASKING FOR TOO MUCH

No you are not asking too much. My prediction is if they don't give these upgrade at the current price, ANHC will go the way of Jazz. Maybe selling around 500 units per month.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by RemingtonSteele

Guys there seems to be some truth in facelift news.
Checkout this facebook update from Honda India.






Source: Walls posted on facebook "Honda India"
Log In | Facebook

I think this is very important news for potential ANHC buyers and deserves a dedicated thread. This all the additional, hope the price won't be jacked up by another lakh!

[Equus]

Originally Posted by shamanth

No you are not asking too much. My prediction is if they don't give these upgrade at the current price, ANHC will go the way of Jazz. Maybe selling around 500 units per month.

500 units? Common, ANHC has a lot more aspirational value than that

But I am positive there wont be a minor facelift, instead most of what pamishra has identified will be packaged in (and prices unchanged).

Now thats not exactly a gamechanger, but its a good interim strategy.
But the prices need to cool off by min 12% for any significant impact and Honda becoming king again..

[ajaynaphade]

Originally Posted by Equus

500 units? Common, ANHC has a lot more aspirational value than that

But I am positive there wont be a minor facelift, instead most of what pamishra has identified will be packaged in (and prices unchanged).

Now thats not exactly a gamechanger, but its a good interim strategy.
But the prices need to cool off by min 12% for any significant impact and Honda becoming king again..

Mate, I beg to differ on what you said about 'Price Unchanged'. We know Honda from past 1 decade, their reputation precedes them.

They do some modification, they increase the price. 'ANHC' does not have any bells & whistles which are there in 'ANHV', let's talk about mid variant (SX one) but it's still expansive then 'ANHV'. So if they include all these features , expect the price to get increased by at least 50-60 K.

[bharatbs]

I have started a seperate thread on the rumoured upgrades to ANHC as I did not want to hijack the current thread.

Please post you comments/querries/suggestions there: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2389444

[vb-san]

Now the discussion here is quite circled around one model from Honda – the City.

Is City the only savior for Honda? I don’t think so. For me, City had a good run so far due to couple of reasons – (1) the brand value and reliability (2) No proper competition. Before the launch of Vento, City’s competition was with the likes of Ford Fiesta (now Fiesta Classic) and Fiat Linea. With all the good reviews, Fiesta was never a crowd puller, and Linea was bogged down by the initial baggage of niggling issues and A.S&S. Now with the arrival of the 2 Vs – the Vento and new Verna, it’s quite natural that the numbers get distributed, and the game plan from Honda should be to refresh and keep the interest alive in City.

But if we look beyond City, there are a host of models which can revive Honda’s fortunes. If they can get the new Civic without much delay, and with realistic pricing, it can still give stiff competition to the other segment players. Opinions on looks maybe polarized, but I feel even the new Civic looks better than a Corolla Altis. And then fixing a diesel engine in the Accord and CR-V will surely help. And not to forget the Jazz. For me that’s the most underrated car from Honda (on sale in India). Jazz with a 1.5L engine and an AT box can really rule the premium hatch segment.

Honda is not a premium brand, but amongst the Japanese and Korean marquee they have got a certain halo. If the India operations think-tank wakes up and decide to protect that position, nothing better than that. It’s good for them, and even better for the end customer.

[bkbkr1212]

Originally Posted by blackasta

Would you please elaborate the benchmarks and criteria on which you made this statement?

I am not sure what do I need to quantify here.

Originally Posted by shortbread

@ bkbr

Where does this perceived notion of engineering superiority come from?? Any real reason to back this up, because honestly I cannot find any. On the other hand if you ask me how Hyundai's taken the game away from Honda here's a few pointers (borrowed from various threads):

• three RWD cars,
• a RWD and FWD sports coupe (genesis and veloster respectively),
• diesel engines (way way ahead)
• The Hyundai Equus is more expensive than any car in the Honda stable including their Acura badge
• Two V8 models in their line up the Genesis and the Equus, Honda has never made a V8 road car. They chickened out of the new V10 NSX project.
• Hyundai have already revealed the 2012 Genesis R with a 429bhp direct injection V8, a much more potent car than any in Honda's line up.

First of all I never meant Honda, I said Jap cars. Anyway since we are giving "tips" to Honda, you could assume that.
Oopsie, how many of the above types of vehicles are driven regularly in India? Or am I far too away from reality?

I was talking about simple, day-to-day,not-so-expensive cars like i20, ANHV, ANHC etc

[shamanth]

Originally Posted by Equus

500 units? Common, ANHC has a lot more aspirational value than that

But I am positive there wont be a minor facelift, instead most of what pamishra has identified will be packaged in (and prices unchanged).

Now thats not exactly a gamechanger, but its a good interim strategy.
But the prices need to cool off by min 12% for any significant impact and Honda becoming king again..

Last month figures were around 1400 - 1500 for city, that is before Verna delivery started and yet to come is Fiesta. So if each eats up 500 each of honda sales it could easily become 500.

Even Jazz is excellent car, everyone appreciate it only drawback is price and goodies.

[souravc]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Is City the only savior for Honda? I don’t think so.

But if we look beyond City, there are a host of models which can revive Honda’s fortunes.

Agree with you fully on that - Honda from being ahead of the game has been forced into a situation where they have to react to survive and your arguements are pertinent to Honda reinventing itself.

If we look at the Indian car buyer , it graduated from a M800 to Alto and now the hottest segment is the sedan which is still a small car by Global standards - as I see it, its only a matter of time before Civics, Corollas, Lauras and Jettas would be the hot segment in India . It's a clear trend that we are upgrading , that we are upsizing in size as well as the price we are willing to shell out. Honda cannot afford to give up on ANHC since its still such a potent car but it can work towards being ahead of the game by re-inventing the Civic, CRV and the Accord which are very good automobiles more than anything else.

Its certain that the days of creaming the market, the way Honda did it with the City family, are over - now the competition is more nimble, has more resources and possess a good enough array of products to cash in on any slipup in product innovation and pricing strategy. If Honda has to survive or better still flourish its only with top of the line products with differentiation and at right price !

All in all I love the shift in balance of power to the consumers and the power of choice that we are enjoying.

[bluevolt]

Originally Posted by shamanth

Last month figures were around 1400 - 1500 for city, that is before Verna delivery started and yet to come is Fiesta. So if each eats up 500 each of honda sales it could easily become 500.

The last month sales figure of the Honda City was 1828 units, very near to Vento's 2400 mark. Considering the fact that Vento and other competitors are available in diesel at much attractive price this number is not bad at all.

[shortbread]

@ bkbr

You made a vague statement that Hyundai is nowhere near Japs, so I gave you examples of how wrong you are and in fact proved to you how their international line up is stronger than say, Honda.

Now you backtrack and say you are talking about cars in India. Why dont you give SPECIFICS as to why Hyundais are nowhere near their rival Jap products. No doubt that when comparing two products there are strengths and weakness, but then the way you say it you seem to claim that a Hyundai model is inferior in every way, kindly elaborate??!!

[bkbkr1212]

Originally Posted by shortbread

@ bkbr

You made a vague statement that Hyundai is nowhere near Japs, so I gave you examples of how wrong you are and in fact proved to you how their international line up is stronger than say, Honda.

Now you backtrack and say you are talking about cars in India. Why dont you give SPECIFICS as to why Hyundais are nowhere near their rival Jap products. No doubt that when comparing two products there are strengths and weakness, but then the way you say it you seem to claim that a Hyundai model is inferior in every way, kindly elaborate??!!

Hi friend,
I didn't backtrack at all.
Could you please have a look at the thread topic?It is Honda India: The Way Forward? Should we bring cars in international market here?
If that's the case, no doubt Hyundai line seems to be damn impressive.
Segment-to-segment comparison, please enlighten me one car which is better than City, Civic,Accord,CR-V.
I must say that I am not a Honda fanboy. But if I have 10-11 lacs, I would rather invest in a Honda, Toyota or a Maruti Suzuki than on any Hyundai cars.