[B103]

Well, we as customers look for best of all worlds in a prospective car -- quality, reliability, bells & whistles, power & torque, exclusivity & prestige, affordability as well as a reasonable price. Unfortunately, I have not seen any 10-12 lac car having all these qualities.

Generally, Japanese and Europeans focus more on quality than the others. If you want quality as well as features on their cars, then you should be willing to shell out a premium.

On the other hand, Americans and Koreans try to make it first to the market (to capture it) and are willing to compromise more on the quality front to be there before others.

If there is no specimen car around with all the above qualities in that price range then it would be that it is not viable from business perspective to sell one isn't?

Ensuring top notch quality and reliability for something like an automobile is not easy considering the sheer number of components involved. It is time consuming and costly as well. Unfortunately, quality and reliability is not as much as palpable like bells & whistles to make an initial impression. Quality takes time to tell. A manufacturer like Hyundai impresses quickly with gizmos and features than a Honda which focuses more on quality. I owned both and know what it means

[girishglg]

A very pertinent thread looking at the latest sales figures of a palrty 2600+ units sold in June 12, read- http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-analysis.html

The first thing that obviously comes to one's mind is Honda has to dieselize all its product range (at least to survive in our country)

The reasoning here is that if they are testing a diesel Brio, the smallest hatch in their stable, there is no reason they should not do so to their bigger and very able cars in their stable.

The Brio and Jazz can have the same motor with different states of tune for varied power output. Maybe a 3 pot that is suspect from the clatter (read - (Brio Diesel Scoop (*SCOOP* Honda Brio DIESEL caught. EDIT : Now caught on VIDEO!)).

The City and Civic again can sport similar engines say a 1.6 again with two states of tune giving the other C2 / D1 sedans like -

Quoted from GTO-

C2 sedans : Hyundai Verna, VW Vento, Skoda Rapid etc.
D1 sedans : Toyota Corolla, Chevrolet Cruze, Skoda Laura, VW Jetta


The Accord and CRV can get the 2.2 i-DTEC (Diesel) - (refer Honda UK - Honda Accord Saloon | Book Test Drive | Specification, Finance & Information)

This would surely propel them both from their current below 100 figures to far higher numbers.

Hope the guys at Honda are finally awake and thinking the same!

[vb-san]

Originally Posted by girishglg

The Brio and Jazz can have the same motor with different states of tune for varied power output. Maybe a 3 pot that is suspect from the clatter (read - (Brio Diesel Scoop (*SCOOP* Honda Brio DIESEL caught. EDIT : Now caught on VIDEO!)).

Why do you say this - just because both Brio and Jazz are hatchbacks? In most markets, both Jazz and City share the same engine, and my thought is that both these cars may get the same diesel engine (if it happens).

[girishglg]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Why do you say this - just because both Brio and Jazz are hatchbacks? In most markets, both Jazz and City share the same engine, and my thought is that both these cars may get the same diesel engine (if it happens).

Right, Jazz is just a hatch of the City and that can be a engine combo as well and yes was just differentiating between the hatches and the sedans in their portfolio and the possible positioning they could achieve using these motors.

In that case Jazz can sport 2 engine options - one of the souped up Brio (for efficiency) and the other one going for the City (hot hatch). Now thats a double strike!

[vsathyap]

A perfect analogy to this would be Nokia and Samsung, with respect to Smartphones. Nokia was considered "THE BEST" VFM product in India a few years back. you could never go wrong with a Nokia phone - it was made for India! However, Samsung slowly started making its presence felt and started changing itself to suit the trending markets. This is very similar to what Hyundai did. The Koreans gave us what we wanted and made us feel good on our purchase.

Nokia never looked beyond Symbian and the touch phones (with the start of iPhone) spelt the downfall of Nokia. Same thing with Honda - they never looked beyond Petrol and paid for it.

Look at how Samsung have captured the smartphone market now - Look @ how Hyundai is selling cars now! I hope Honda can make a comeback before it's too late for them. Nokia dug its own grave by not jumping onto Android. They went for Windows instead. Honda - give us what we want and we will help you back!

[sumeethaldankar]

Hyundai has a wider portfolio than Honda ie small cars while Honda sold sedans and suv's rather than hatchbacks.I think Honda was in direct competion with Toyota as it is in rest of the world and that the Brio was a response to Toyotas's etios liva hatchback.

I think with the upcoming Brio diesel Honda will get its act together and respond to the market as a whole rather than just to what Toyota does.

Just my personal opinion.

[raul]

I think both Honda and Toyota need to 'find' themselves, and quickly. A car is not just about a to b, it needs to excite the imagination, to keep the brand buzzing and alive. What does Honda and Toyota stand for these days? Ordinary, acceptable. There is nearly zero innovation in design, engineering, business model. They seem to be content being mediocre.

Look at Mazda, at least they are trying to carve a niche for themselves with more exciting design and performance.

Both companies have been content putting up extremely dull and drab cars. Honda especially given the Accord and now Civic redesign seems to have lost its 'mojo'. More is expected of these 2 auto greats.

[_raVan_]

Zigwheels has carried a report on Honda's future plans:

http://www.zigwheels.com/news-featur...ly-2014/14225/

While the next generation City is expected to debut in 2013, the diesel engined version would go on sale in the country in early 2014. What is the underlying theme in all this is the fact that the next generation City as well as its Jazz hatchback derivative plus the mini-SUV and MPV would all be designed to accept diesel engines thereby displaying that typical attention to detail which Honda is acclaimed for. Ito also said that India was going to be the lead development market for the small diesel engine which would draw upon local ancillary component makers from the very outset of development so that local production costs are in place from the word go.

[vijaythacker]

Originally Posted by vsathyap

A perfect analogy to this would be Nokia and Samsung, with respect to Smartphones. Nokia was considered "THE BEST" VFM product in India a few years back. you could never go wrong with a Nokia phone - it was made for India! However, Samsung slowly started making its presence felt and started changing itself to suit the trending markets. This is very similar to what Hyundai did. The Koreans gave us what we wanted and made us feel good on our purchase.

Nokia never looked beyond Symbian and the touch phones (with the start of iPhone) spelt the downfall of Nokia. Same thing with Honda - they never looked beyond Petrol and paid for it.

Look at how Samsung have captured the smartphone market now - Look @ how Hyundai is selling cars now! I hope Honda can make a comeback before it's too late for them. Nokia dug its own grave by not jumping onto Android. They went for Windows instead. Honda - give us what we want and we will help you back!

absolutely bang on, in todays diesel powered market, thats exactly where honda missed out on, never really thought diesel engines seriously for indian shores where every other manufacturer jumped into diesel mills, even toyota as well with their etios and liva.

[RavenAvi]

The biggest advantage that Honda has now, is that two of it's most popular cars , the Jazz/Fit (worldwide) and the City (India/South East), are due for major facelifts (read next-gen models) in 2013-14.

And both these cars share a common platform.

While the worldwide launches are scheduled for mid-2013 and later, the India-specific launches are not scheduled until 2014.

As per their schedule, the Brio diesel is slated to arrive in September 2013.

Two of their potential future projects - the Jazz/Fit-based MPV and the Brio sedan, have been pushed forward into development status and we should be seeing prototype testing of the Brio sedan on the roads by Jan-Feb 2013, at least. If all goes well, expect a simultaneous launch of the Brio diesel and the Brio sedan (petrol/diesel) by September 2013 (through till Diwali 2013), powered by indigenously developed, India-specific 1.2L diesels.

Market response should decide if the all-new Jazz will come in a diesel avatar, although I am not hearing anything about the Jazz's future just yet. If it receives the go-ahead, it should have a retuned 1.2 diesel in it as well.

The all-new City in it's diesel avatar should be with us in the first quarter of 2014, again depending on the extensive testing and the "All OK" in all tests. It will be powered by a 1.5L diesel, again indigenously developed and India-specific.

Like I said once before (in this thread or another thread, I don't remember) 2013-2014 are going to be busy years for Honda India.

Better late, than never.

[sarthakgupta]

Raven Sir, thanks for the detailed info. Can you share the source of your information? Also the 1.2 diesel - will it be a 3 cylinder (very un-Hondaish) or a proper 4 cylinder engine?

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Raven Sir, thanks for the detailed info. Can you share the source of your information? Also the 1.2 diesel - will it be a 3 cylinder (very un-Hondaish) or a proper 4 cylinder engine?

Nope, I can't reveal that information. At least 3 people will lose their jobs if I did.

It will be a 4-cylinder diesel, either of 1.2 or 1.5 L capacity.

[CARDEEP]

ACI have put up an exclusive report on 8 new Honda Cars (basically the Diesels based on 1.5L mill) in the next 3 years. But, surprisingly the new City is being pulled forward in the process. Here is the link to the report:

http://www.autocarindia.com/News/321...ree-years.aspx

The new model offensive will commence with the Brio Sedan in 2013 followed by the new City Petrol+Diesel, which may be launched before Brio (Hatch) Diesel, as the localisation levels of the diesel mill need not be optimised by then, which could impact the pricing of Brio Diesel Hatch.

Next Gen Jazz is expected in 2014 (again both Petrol+Diesel), & the Brio MPV is expected around late 2014.

There are plans for small SUV (based on City underpinnings) in 2015, & this could be a 7-seater.

THe next gen CRV will be launched in Jan-13, but, it will again not be available in diesel mill, & accodingly the Petrol only new Accord will be launched in late 2013.

(Mods I tried locating the older thread on Honda's plans, but could not locate it. Please do the needful. Thanks in Advance)

[pganapathy]

Finally Honda are responding to market demand, read diesel. I would personally never buy a diesel vehicle if I could avoid it, but this crazy subsidy regime is slowly changing me.

Honda should see their fortunes improve dramatically and I look forward to that. They are a brilliant company with brilliant products.

[sarathlal]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

(Mods I tried locating the older thread on Honda's plans, but could not locate it. Please do the needful. Thanks in Advance)

Here you go; Is this the thread?
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...orward-17.html