[RemingtonSteele]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Honda are smart enough? Really? If they really were smart, they wouldn't have gotten where they are today.

Thats your prespective. You won't say so many things if Diesel gets de-regulated in India. (be assured this will happen someday). The tax payers are bleeding to compensate the loss.
I am just trying to be optimistic and I am sure Honda think tanks are no fools.

[pgsagar]

Remington, I never said they are fools. Arrogant/lethargic, may be. But whatever, they have not acted in time and they are paying a price for it. You know big corporations also make big bluders sometimes. That is when they fall. Old Goliaths die and new Davids take over. That is how things happen in this world.

[rutvij]

Honda Sales down 43% in May this year. This is what appeared in Times of India in today's edition in Ahmedabad.



They were selling more than 3500 Citys per month. This indeed is shocking and hopefully will be an urgent wake up call for Honda.

[sgiitk]

I am wondering whether the delay in the Rajasthan plant is the cause or effect of this?

[djpeesh]

If I remember correctly, the company said it had put the Tapukara, Rajasthan plant on hold till its sales recovered to 'rationalize capacity' (whatever that means). Also, i heard that the previous head of Honda India was sent off to Canada for messing up Honda's India story. He was earlier slated for a big role in Honda corporate in Japan, so my sources tell me.

[Equus]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Remington, I never said they are fools. Arrogant/lethargic, may be. But whatever, they have not acted in time and they are paying a price for it. You know big corporations also make big bluders sometimes. That is when they fall. Old Goliaths die and new Davids take over. That is how things happen in this world.

Absolutely! They do have a good case study in what VW did to Skoda Fabia, to look up to, even if they are duds!

However, as a Honda owner for almost 4 yrs now - the cars are extremely diligent. No complaints (leave the dealers aside; just talking the car) what-so-ever! Complete peace of mind, period. Honestly, the piece of mind is why I went for a Honda (apart from snob-value offcourse), but it has fully lived up to it!

It would be sad if they dont act, and act soon.

[avishar]

Originally Posted by djpeesh

If I remember correctly, the company said it had put the Tapukara, Rajasthan plant on hold till its sales recovered to 'rationalize capacity' (whatever that means). Also, i heard that the previous head of Honda India was sent off to Canada for messing up Honda's India story. He was earlier slated for a big role in Honda corporate in Japan, so my sources tell me.

I think Honda uses that plant to make some engine components and drive train components.However car assembly has been put on hold.

[manishk83]

Originally Posted by GTO

They won't become irrelevant, because diesel engines are inherently more fuel efficient than petrol. Check the petrol / diesel FE of any car and you'll see that the diesel is usually 25 - 30% more efficient. Thus, even if petrol & diesel are priced identically, the diesel will still be noticeably cheaper to run.

With the maintenance costs and initial higher costs thrown in, if diesel is de-regulated, I do believe the diesel car bandwagon may hit a bump.

That said, I don't think that the de-regulation will happen anytime soon (not in the next 4-5 yrs). Such a move would price FOOD out of half the country's population and could easily spinball into a 20%+ stagflation (stagnation + inflation) situation across all sectors of the economy and put the country back by half a decade. But, I definitely think that there could be an increase in excise duty on diesel car, like the Delhi govt just imposed. Depends on which lobby has better influence on the govt.

However, somehow I have faith in Honda. They will bounce back. They always have (remember when the City was all but declared dead when the SX4 was launched; however, it managed to pull back, and how!).

Honda still has the most well-designed cars in its segments. The ANHC is a looker like no other. When a company can design cars the ways they do, I am sure they can do other things right, too. I know it's a very lame argument but somehow I believe in it. I think Honda India just got carried away in their success.

[samyakmodi]

Originally Posted by avishar

I think Honda uses that plant to make some engine components and drive train components.However car assembly has been put on hold.

if that is the case then why is this problem arising from the company's end?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-5-months.html

[R2D2]

As an ex-Honda owner (OHC II) from nearly a decade ago, I can tell you that I was certainly not pleased with their dealer's sales and after sales service. It was absolutely unacceptable.

But times have changed. I have been with Toyota; 2 models over 5+ years and happy. In the same breath I admit I love Honda's designs and petrol engines and the current Accord has been on my wish list for a long time. I even test drove one and nearly plonked down an advance. I am glad I did not, as the Skoda Superb is much better value for money. But Skoda's after sales and attitude leave much to be desired. The very same Honda dealer who gave me a rough time with my OHC now chases me to buy the Accord.

I do not believe my next car will be a Toyota. I may just bite the bullet and switch to the Germans.

I couldn't help but give a wry smile when I read the VW Vento kicked the City's backside and took pole position in its segment. At the risk of offending some die hard Honda fans, I love seeing Honda Siel's smug look being slowly wiped off its corporate face. It's been a long time coming.

Honda had a free run in this country for far too long and taken us for granted. As GTO said, it needs to get its act in order. The market is speaking. Market = Vox Populi.

Cheers!

[nik_kapur]

Maybe this is the answer to Hondas woes in India ! A Brio Sedan to compete with the Etios may just be perfect.

This is a rendering but it has been reported that they are considering the sedan avatar.

Source- Paultan.org

http://carfantasy.blogspot.com/2011/...dan-to-be.html
(see the link for rear end view)

[coolmel]

Originally Posted by zoom_vroom

I would like to quote the following lines from "bsmotoring.com" . These lines pretty much sum up my feelings for HONDA.

"Honda, you are a brilliant engineering company, something your founder based its principles on. You have found solutions to the most unlikely problems - the Honda Cub and Hero Honda CD100 for instance. You have gone where no other auto company in the recent past has gone and made private jets. The S2000 is a feat – it's taken until today for supercars like the Lexus LF-A and the Ferrari 458 Italia to get to those stratospheric 9000 rpm revlimit.

I don't care if you think the yen exchange rate is a problem and therefore you have to price your cars high. I do care that the Jazz is still priced a bit high. I don't care if you can't get the Civic Type-R since it is too much of a niche for India to make economic sense but I do care that you provide the City with more features. And a diesel engine. Do it right, Honda. You've done it right for so long in India and you seem to be tripping at this point. Let the competition introduce new products, don't worry so much of being out of the limelight. Get your product spec right, get your marketing strategy in order. Make us love your products the way we first loved them when the City first went on sale in 1998. Make us once again feel like there is nothing better than Honda for us Indians. Then sit back, relax and watch the cash registers start to ring!"

Link to the article "http://www.bsmotoring.com/storypage.php?autono=2526"

well said mate! Somebody mail this to the India head.

[FanaticOnWheels]

Honda definitely needs to get it's act together, and fast. I think the fluidic verna is a hard hit on their backside. People are being offered a plethora of features at just Rs 50k /- extra. The only way out for them now seems to be to introduce refresh models of their successful models, viz the city and the civic, with better features altogether. The engines are gems on both cars, and this is an added advantage as they won't have to play around with the mechanical aspects.

As far as the service is concerned, we've had a wonderful experience with Capital Honda (Chennai - Airport road). Right from the sales (The executive got the car to our residence more than 3 times, after which we told him we needed some time. After 2 months, we again requested the same person to get it again to see if it fits in the parking space, and he promptly arrived. This was during the time when the city was still selling like hot cakes). The service experience was very good as well. They sent their driver home, who inspected the car before taking it (to check for scratches so that there is no dispute when the car is returned). The servicing was well done too. Till date there have been zero issues with the car.

It is only on the feature aspect that Honda is missing out. This is, infact, a blessing in disguise. For instance, cars like the Linea miss out on engine power compared to the competition, and Fiat will have to take care of that in their next iteration, and I hear the mileage is not high compared to the competition (Dzire for instance, though it is still a good figure in absolute terms, but we Indians never compromise on mileage, do we?). Honda has nailed both the engine and the mileage part, so if they introduce another version with good features, I think they can bounce back. And yes, with the recent craze in diesels, a diesel engine would probably help, but let's face it, the development of a diesel engine (even if they do source it from another company), testing it for Indian conditions, and then introducing it in India will be a long process. Moreover, people might go for the more established players in diesel technology. I personally feel Honda should stick to their free revving petrol engines. They do that best, and I think they should continue doing that. They have carved out a niche for themselves by means of these petrol engines, and I think they will succeed if they stick to petrol (something that they do well), provided they get their basics right this time.

They need to do something innovative, just like Apple did with the iPhone (which was short of key features when it was introduced as well!). My two cents!

[mdsaab]

Originally Posted by FanaticOnWheels

Honda definitely needs to get it's act together, and fast. I think the fluidic verna is a hard hit on their backside. People are being offered a plethora of features at just Rs 50k /- extra. The only way out for them now seems to be to introduce refresh models of their successful models, viz the city and the civic, with better features altogether. The engines are gems on both cars, and this is an added advantage as they won't have to play around with the mechanical aspects.

As far as the service is concerned, we've had a wonderful experience with Capital Honda (Chennai - Airport road). Right from the sales (The executive got the car to our residence more than 3 times, after which we told him we needed some time. After 2 months, we again requested the same person to get it again to see if it fits in the parking space, and he promptly arrived. This was during the time when the city was still selling like hot cakes). The service experience was very good as well. They sent their driver home, who inspected the car before taking it (to check for scratches so that there is no dispute when the car is returned). The servicing was well done too. Till date there have been zero issues with the car.

It is only on the feature aspect that Honda is missing out. This is, infact, a blessing in disguise. For instance, cars like the Linea miss out on engine power compared to the competition, and Fiat will have to take care of that in their next iteration, and I hear the mileage is not high compared to the competition (Dzire for instance, though it is still a good figure in absolute terms, but we Indians never compromise on mileage, do we?). Honda has nailed both the engine and the mileage part, so if they introduce another version with good features, I think they can bounce back. And yes, with the recent craze in diesels, a diesel engine would probably help, but let's face it, the development of a diesel engine (even if they do source it from another company), testing it for Indian conditions, and then introducing it in India will be a long process. Moreover, people might go for the more established players in diesel technology. I personally feel Honda should stick to their free revving petrol engines. They do that best, and I think they should continue doing that. They have carved out a niche for themselves by means of these petrol engines, and I think they will succeed if they stick to petrol (something that they do well), provided they get their basics right this time.

They need to do something innovative, just like Apple did with the iPhone (which was short of key features when it was introduced as well!). My two cents!

I agree with your post here.
It will be long before a diesel engine makes it into the lineup. And till then what Honda could do from their side is atleast up the features on their current lineup.
I was offered a 50k discount on the city. It's tempting me no end. Shall i go in for it?

[FanaticOnWheels]

Originally Posted by mdsaab

I agree with your post here.
It will be long before a diesel engine makes it into the lineup. And till then what Honda could do from their side is atleast up the features on their current lineup.
I was offered a 50k discount on the city. It's tempting me no end. Shall i go in for it?

Well, let me tell you, the city has been perfect for our needs so far. Some of the features like climate control which is being sorely missed is definitely not missed by me, since all i do is switch on the AC and set the blower to 2 or 3 fan speed, and the cabin is chilled in no time. The audio system is a lot better than what I expected (I'm no audiophile). Safety systems are standard, which is a good thing. But different people have different needs, I just gave you my stand.

Coming to the engine, it is a gem, and offers outright performance. The FE is reasonable (averages around 15-16 kmpl). We have had no issues so far with the car.

I frankly think you cannot go wrong with a Honda. That being said, it is ultimately your decision, hope you end up being a happy customer whatever car you decide upon buying. Every car does have it's shortcomings after all. Moreover, if it's in your fate, even a Maruti can give you nightmares with service. So I strongly suggest you look at the car's performance first before looking at the service and resale values. I don't think that a car is an investment, it's meant to be driven and enjoyed. Cheers!