[mdsaab]

Originally Posted by RemingtonSteele

175k+ - man thats some figure to reckon with; you have beaten 50K consideraion with leaps and bounds
Nice to hear those words from you after 175K+ on a Honda engine. These words truely convey the classyness on Honda machines.

Absolutely.congratulations! That is some achievement. Its definately going to get a big thumbs up from all the Honda Loyalists out here, including me.

[arvi86]

Originally Posted by bkbkr1212

No one ever thought that cars Verna (A korean car is a korean car is a korean car) will outsell City.

As much as we all love Honda cars and their technology, I think Hyundai has now effectively put a full stop to this comment. A Korean Car is no longer a Korean Car that we used to associate, say, a decade or half back. The New Verna is simply brilliant and the best all-rounder in its segment and quite deservedly outsells the City.

Originally Posted by asr245

50K?? My dad's OHC VTEC has done 175K+ kms and though the car feels aged that engine is still rev happy. And it's still reliable.

What? 175K+ kms in India? Its just great to hear for Honda owners and enthusiasts like me. Would you mind sharing some pics with us? I would love to look at that car.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by arvi86

As much as we all love Honda cars and their technology, I think Hyundai has now effectively put a full stop to this comment. A Korean Car is no longer a Korean Car that we used to associate, say, a decade or half back. The New Verna is simply brilliant and the best all-rounder in its segment and quite deservedly outsells the City.

A newly launched car outselling 2-3 yrs old car is not new. Though in the current scenario I do believe it will continue to outsell it simply because of diesel diet. BTW, are there any Hyundai owners who have done a lot of miles on it ? say more than 150K - 200K kms? Would love to hear about their experience about their car.

Originally Posted by arvi86

What? 175K+ kms in India? Its just great to hear for Honda owners and enthusiasts like me. Would you mind sharing some pics with us? I would love to look at that car.

Originally Posted by RemingtonSteele

175k+ - man thats some figure to reckon with; you have beaten 50K consideraion with leaps and bounds
Nice to hear those words from you after 175K+ on a Honda engine. These words truely convey the classyness on Honda machines.

Well, I don't think I have any pics as of now but I surely do plan to put up a 200K kms review. It might be the first of it's kind on team-bhp.

[arvi86]

Originally Posted by asr245

Well, I don't think I have any pics as of now but I surely do plan to put up a 200K kms review. It might be the first of it's kind on team-bhp.

Bring it on ASAP. That would be one heck of a long-term review.

BTW, I know quite a few Hyundai owners who have had their cars for a decade or more, but none, absolutely none of them have clocked mileage in excess of 75000 kms.

[sriramv.iyer]

Originally Posted by arvi86

As much as we all love Honda cars and their technology, I think Hyundai has now effectively put a full stop to this comment. A Korean Car is no longer a Korean Car that we used to associate, say, a decade or half back. The New Verna is simply brilliant and the best all-rounder in its segment and quite deservedly outsells the City.

I am used to think similarly too (just search for my postings in Jazz vs i20 threads ) - I have a i20 CRDi(o) with six airbags and sunroof. But, just about less than two years and 40K kms, Korean character is beginning to show - When I am replacing it, I doubt if it would be a korean. Secondly, without any gadgets compared to i20, my other car, ANHC is bringing tons of smiles to my face (you should see how much I used to bash (and still bash it for lack of features)) in other threads.


Honda makes good cars that last, fuel efficient and fun to drive - But they don't match the features provided by others (esp Koreans) - (Germans equally suck in features) and charge a premium. I used to hate Honda for that. (my jaw dropped when I saw the antiquated mechanism for enabling / disabling air circulation in ANHC, and I never thought I'd buy that!) - But I now feel that Honda cars add another feature - 'quality' that other don't. (There is a reason I mentioned cars here - my recently bought CBR feels like its plastics would break any time )

Also, all Honda cars are 'lookers' - Nothing beats ANHC for its sharp, proportional looks (except of course Linea - However, IMO it is showing its age, esp in rear)

If they add a couple of good features, and correct their prices by
50-75K City / Jazz
1L Civic
3L Accord
6-7L CRV (grrrr)

They are back in the game!

PS:- There is a good amount of sarcasm in the corrections given above. I know Honda wont do it - Just in case to make sure that no one jumps on me for those corrections I've give above.

[drkunaldas]

Originally Posted by arvi86

Bring it on ASAP. That would be one heck of a long-term review.

BTW, I know quite a few Hyundai owners who have had their cars for a decade or more, but none, absolutely none of them have clocked mileage in excess of 75000 kms.

no, it's not correct. I had a 1999 santro. i clocked 120,000 kms. the engine was a gem. no work needed. i sold it off in 2009, when i brought the city SMT

[arvi86]

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

Honda makes good cars that last, fuel efficient and fun to drive - But they don't match the features provided by others (esp Koreans) -

I second you, perfectly agree with the above comment on Hondas. Their only grouse (if we can call it so) is the lack of features and the VFM factor. But, we can't expect both quality and VFM in one package either.

Originally Posted by drkunaldas

no, it's not correct. I had a 1999 santro. i clocked 120,000 kms. the engine was a gem. no work needed. i sold it off in 2009, when i brought the city SMT

That's great to hear. I just mentioned that I personally don't know anyone who have clocked more than 100000 km in a Hyundai model.

[akhilesh]

Originally Posted by arvi86

\The New Verna is simply brilliant and the best all-rounder in its segment and quite deservedly outsells the City.

How is it the best all rounder? The ride and handling still isnt sorted and almost all magazine say that it doesnt feel as fast as 126 bhp from 1.6 liter diesel would suggest. Autocar says that performance is almost similar to VW Vento which astonishingly is almost 20% down on power.
Hyundai have always bloated their HP figures starting from the Accent which was beaten all ends up by relatively less powerful 1.6 litre Ford Ikon Rocam.

Hyundai + good looks + nice interiors and people don't care two hoot about how it drives and whats the power output like.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by akhilesh

Hyundai + good looks + nice interiors and people don't care two hoot about how it drives and whats the power output like.

That’s the whole point. If Hyundai can play so well with their product, why not Honda? Their cars are far superior in drivability, but kind of under-estimated their customers. They need to understand that Indian customers are all about VFM offerings, and more the money is always welcome – be it bhp or features.

What I fail to understand is, if Honda can provide feature-rich cars in other Asian markets, why not in India?

It’s kind of clear that they cannot continue to survive on past laurels. Anyway, all is not lost for Honda. They still have a huge fan following in India, and even slight positives moves from them will have huge impact in the market. Just my view!

[Gooney]

Originally Posted by vb-san

That’s the whole point. If Hyundai can play so well with their product, why not Honda? Their cars are far superior in drivability, but kind of under-estimated their customers. They need to understand that Indian customers are all about VFM offerings, and more the money is always welcome – be it bhp or features.

What I fail to understand is, if Honda can provide feature-rich cars in other Asian markets, why not in India?

As evident from the discussions in this thread, the sole problem with Honda cars in India is price - too dear. The reason why Honda cannot play around with product pricing is because of local sourcing of parts / components, or rather the lack of it. I think among all the OEMs, Honda has the least amount of local components in its vehicles (~60 percent [ballpark] as opposed to 80-90 percent among [or greater] other foreign OEMs).

And why has the Honda India management been so lackadaisical about the product sourcing aspect is one enigma I fail to understand.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by akhilesh

How is it the best all rounder? The ride and handling still isnt sorted and almost all magazine say that it doesnt feel as fast as 126 bhp from 1.6 liter diesel would suggest. Autocar says that performance is almost similar to VW Vento which astonishingly is almost 20% down on power.
Hyundai have always bloated their HP figures starting from the Accent which was beaten all ends up by relatively less powerful 1.6 litre Ford Ikon Rocam.

Hyundai + good looks + nice interiors and people don't care two hoot about how it drives and whats the power output like.

+1 to that. As per Autocar, in spite of the extra 20 horses over the Vento, the 0-100 times are almost the same (Verna faster by fractions of a second) while in the in-gear performance, the Vento just kills the verna by a margin of 50% or more. And on top of it, consider the bad dynamics, the ANHV is no way the best car in the segment for someone who loves driving.

When I was in the lookout for a premium hatch, I almost decided on the I20. And then one longish test drive on the I20 and I decided that it was not for me in spite of the various gizmos on offer - feather light steering with zero feedback, extra soft suspension which wobbles a lot and does not give any confidence while cornering, apart from feeling underpowered (came to know of the steering rattle and AC issues later). Same traits are carried over to the ANHV. Also, I think that Hyundai does copy a lot of their design elements and hence sometimes their designs seems confusing and do not age well.

I know I have paid a premium of about 1 lakh over other cars for buying the car I liked. I think it is justified and am absolutely happy with my decision. It has awesome quality, excellent ergonomics, astonishing packaging, cooled bottle holders, magic seats and an excellent engine - all the basic engineering elements are so well designed. On top of it, you get futuristic looks and great road presence and turns head everywhere. You get excellent mileage when driven sensibly - 15 to 16 kmpl is not at all difficult to get with 100%AC in moderate traffic conditions. ANd then when you put the pedal to metal, the IVTEC roars and the car flies...it hits 185 kmph+ in the speedo and that too from a 'puny' 1.2 litre engine.

I firmly believe that the car will serve me really well over a long period to justify the premium I paid.

I don't want Honda to change the way it designs it cars. Yes, it will be nice if they can price their cars more competitively but without compromising on quality and the other aspects that have made 'Honda' the brand it is. Actually, if they reduce the prices by approx 10%, their cars will fly

[arvi86]

Originally Posted by akhilesh

How is it the best all rounder? The ride and handling still isnt sorted and almost all magazine say that it doesnt feel as fast as 126 bhp from 1.6 liter diesel would suggest

Originally Posted by adimicra

+1 to that. As per Autocar, in spite of the extra 20 horses over the Vento, the 0-100 times are almost the same (Verna faster by fractions of a second) while in the in-gear performance, the Vento just kills the verna by a margin of 50% or more. And on top of it, consider the bad dynamics, the ANHV is no way the best car in the segment for someone who loves driving.

Alas! That is what I am trying to tell. Hyundai is not making cars for enthusiasts but for the masses. That is why, even if we enthusiasts reject their cars as crap, you will find them to be so successful and on top of their segments. Whereas Honda is exactly the opposite. Thats why, even if Hondas are not feature rich and are expensive, we enthusiasts don't mind paying and still buy a Honda.

This thread is about Honda India's way forward. Going forward, Honda should definitely take a leaf out of Hyundai and start equipping their cars with a lot of features. If they do that, this along with the already driver-friendly nature of their cars will help increase volumes.

Believe it or not, if you are a sedate driver and don't do much high-speed cornering (which 90% of the people don't), the all-new Verna is the best all-rounder. Again, its not about enthusiasts I am talking about. Upto speeds of around 120 kph, it is very stable and its only after that the handling gets a little jittery. Lets appreciate Hyundai for raising the bar in this segment.

[aravind.anand]

ACI editor recently tweeted ~ Honda definitely makes the best small petrol engines around, But sadly its Diesel that everyone is after.

Its the harsh truth! with the recent petrol price hikes, petrolheads are being forced to go for diesel cars with their next purchase. This is the sad truth :(

[nik_kapur]

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

ACI editor recently tweeted ~ Honda definitely makes the best small petrol engines around, But sadly its Diesel that everyone is after.

Its the harsh truth! with the recent petrol price hikes, petrolheads are being forced to go for diesel cars with their next purchase. This is the sad truth :(

Very well said. You can be a Honda Lover but the 30Rs Price differential in fuels is a bit much now ! All those arguments about how u need to drive a certain amt of kms in a year to be able to justify a diesel car are out of the window to a great extent.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by arvi86

Alas! That is what I am trying to tell. Hyundai is not making cars for enthusiasts but for the masses. That is why, even if we enthusiasts reject their cars as crap, you will find them to be so successful and on top of their segments. Whereas Honda is exactly the opposite. Thats why, even if Hondas are not feature rich and are expensive, we enthusiasts don't mind paying and still buy a Honda.

This thread is about Honda India's way forward. Going forward, Honda should definitely take a leaf out of Hyundai and start equipping their cars with a lot of features. If they do that, this along with the already driver-friendly nature of their cars will help increase volumes.

Believe it or not, if you are a sedate driver and don't do much high-speed cornering (which 90% of the people don't), the all-new Verna is the best all-rounder. Again, its not about enthusiasts I am talking about. Upto speeds of around 120 kph, it is very stable and its only after that the handling gets a little jittery. Lets appreciate Hyundai for raising the bar in this segment.

AGree sir. I already told u that I am in the minority I love Honda brand and they should definitely take a leaf out of Hyundai but without compromising on their strengths.
But I still fail to understand how will they be able to price the cars competitively. The folks at Honda already know this and looking at their lack of response, it seems they do not have any answers. Something must be wrong in their strategy!