[kalpeshc]

Today the Tata Motors stock is down almost 5% - so there's some information somewhere which doesn't sound right to the investors, especially the big boys (MFs, FIIs, etc.)

[julupani]

@rrsteer

I disagree that CVBU is going to lose any market share in any serious terms over at least the next decade or so. Even the last 5 years have seen new brands like MNAL, AMW, MAN Force etc but none of them have made any serious dent at all. The only serious competition I see is from Bharat Benz, but I still have my doubts as to whether they will even get close to the price and life cycle cost advantage of Tata or Leyland. Among the other big truck makers, Volvo and Scania dont seem to have any plans of entering the low cost CV areas. And over the next 3-5years Prima should be able to build a brand name to allow it to compete with the big names.

Tata in the CV segment is akin to Maruti. It is going to take decades to defeat them. How much has Maruti been hit with the introduction of a large slew of manufacturers over the last 10years?? And its not like Maruti has done something out of the ordinary. I am sure around 60% market share can be maintained, just by not committing harakiri.

As for a different brand for Tata, I dont see how this will work. As of now it seems like Tata will concentrate upto the Aria only and its line up is largely set. May be a high end 15lakh rupee sedan is the only new addition to the line up. Above that Jaguar and Land Rover will take over. So I dont really see where another brand can slot in.

And I dont think selling the Manza/Safari/Aria etc under a different brand name will work, as most people will just see through it.

[deetjohn]

Call it luck or good due diligence with long term vision rather! Tata did a lot good for themselves and the British motor industry by buying JLR from Ford in the June of 2008 for £1.5 billion. And it looks like a steal now.

But it might not have been an easy decision at all. Both the companies were in the red and the global motor industry was deep into recession and it was the worst possible time to be associated with anything luxury, be it cars or bottled water.

The story is that Ratan Tata saw the product pipeline for both Jag and Land Rover and was sold on the deal. And now we all know, what he saw! Good Job Tata. And well done to Ford too. They did their best for the companies to survive and made sure Tata get it right.

And now, the real hard work for Tata starts. They have to pump in money for R&D to keep this momentum going into the future.

[akj53]

Originally Posted by GTO

High Points

Jaguar - Land Rover Standalone[/b]

Jaguar Land Rover recorded strong profitability reporting net revenue of GB£9,906 million and a Profit after Tax of GB £1,043 million. Sales volumes improved to 243,621 as compared to 193,982 in the previous year, on the back of improved market conditions.

A very healthy profit of 7800 crores after selling just 64083 vehicles is commendable and speaks volumes about the customer confidence enjoyed by brand JLR.

The figures are bound to go up in 2011-12 due to release of new models of XF and RR Evoque bound to hit showroom within few months. The new 4 Cylinder XF and Evoque are sure to bring big volumes and resultant profits. The new models under consideration in next 5 years are sure to make JLR a major automobile player worldwide.

More than the profits, managing a company better than Ford, is surely a feather in Mr. Ratan Tata's cap. Indian management capabilities shown by Indian entrepreneurs like Mr. L. N. Mittal and Tata's and CEOs like Indira Nooyi and Vikram Patel have firmly established Indians in the forefront of international business.

I am glad, I bought a Jaguar

[Captain Slow]

@kalpeshc

Tata Motors slumps on disappointing Q4 earnings

Tata Motors’s Q4 FY11 consolidated net profit at Rs. 26.4bn was in-line, says IIFL's institutional research arm. However, adjusted for forex gain, recurring PAT at Rs. 24.6bn was lower than estimates, it adds.

EBITDA too was lower than expectation, IIFL says in a note to its clients.

Jaguar Land Rover's (JLR) EBITDA margins declined sequentially to 15.8% (down 160bps QoQ), on lower share of China and currency headwinds, IIFL says.

Whilst JLR revenues were higher than expectations, EBITDA was in-line at GBP433mn.


On a standalone basis, Tata Motors' margins were below expectations at 8.8%, down 160bps QoQ in spite of a 27% QoQ growth in volumes. Margins were ~200bps below expectations, IIFL says.

Tata Motors slumps on disappointing Q4 earnings

[amoghchaphalkar]

Originally Posted by kalpeshc

Today the Tata Motors stock is down almost 5% - so there's some information somewhere which doesn't sound right to the investors, especially the big boys (MFs, FIIs, etc.)

That is because Tata Motor's domestic sales & margins have not been upto the mark and the market is apprehensive about the long term prospects considering that no Tata cars in India are setting the sales charts on fire. Nano is not upto the mark, Aria is a dud, Indica & Indigo are being outsold by competition, Safari & Sumo are comfortably outsold by M&M products.

The phenomenal numbers are the result of balance sheet consolidation (sales revenue and profit of foreign subsidiaries being reported in India)

OT : Tata Motors is also coming up with an US$ 800 Million & Euro 400 Million worth of long term bonds issue. (ECB) They are probably planning some additional CAPEX and R&D expenditure.

[vinya_jag]

This is a nice situation to be in for TATA motors.

I still cannot understand why Ford sold JLR to TATA.
The Ford ownership of Jaguar was probably the most interesting time for Jaguar.
Jaguar was in the F1 with Cosworth, designed some of the most beautiful cars during this period. The F-type, X-type and if i remember there was another T-type which never saw the light.

Is TATA reaping the profits out of the Ford-JLR association?
What will happen next? Will TATA dry up the sponge?
I hope Jaguar stays the same brand what it was. [vinya_jag, will the jag in my ID stay?]

[ra'ul M]

According to the results, the profit for TATA Motors [excluding JLR] has slid from 2240 cr to 1811 cr comparing this quarter from the same quarter last year, hence the drop in share prices.

Coming back to the topic: I think this is because Tata Motors is going through a transition period. With the overall profitability growing, they can sit back and develop totally new products and not evolve their existing ones which they have been doing since inception. I expect TATA to be India's Hyundai and they have the cost advantage to pull it off.

OT: Buy their shares !

[romeomidhun]

A profit of Rs 7,800 crores by selling just 64,000 vehicles which means an average per-vehicle profit of RS 12 lakhs! That is almost equal to the ex-showroom price of the costliest vehicle sold by Tata here in India!

[ra'ul M]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

A profit of Rs 7,800 crores by selling just 64,000 vehicles which means an average per-vehicle profit of RS 12 lakhs! That is almost equal to the ex-showroom price of the costliest vehicle sold by Tata here in India!

You are confused!
This should help
http://www.bseindia.com/xml-data/cor...td2_260511.pdf

[justwheels]

Its always nice to see an Indian company fighting with the market greats and carving its own niche. Tata Motors is a big example and the turn around story with JLR is just a testimony to all their efforts to be a global player. Ofcourse profits and margins have multitudnal factors behind them, its the image and name that Tata Motors has earned which will take it a long way.

Another good news is that JLR has opened its first plant now in India and have started with the Freelander assembly. Thats a good way to bring the wonderful SUV on the Indian soil.

The first USP of Tata cars was "More Car per Car", it surely still holds. From the indica to the Manza to the Aria, all in some way are "More Car per Car". Aria might be a sales dudd, but it does the same as to what Bugatti Veyron does to VW group, building a capability and brand image. Nano and Aria are more of capability and brand image products, every time you see one, you say, thats a good creation by Tata. You don't say all that when you see the umpteen number of "xyz" cars on the road.

A healthy bottomline in the balance sheets is surely a breather from the market woes. And with Tata wanting to invest more in the R&D is a good sign for the Indian auto sector. Kudos to TML!!!

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by ra'ul M

You are confused!

Oh, my mistake! it is 7,800 crores from 2,43,000 vehicles for JLR, which means a profit of Rs 3.2 lakh per vehicle.

[shortbread]

The figures are primarily due JLR, the purchase now looks like a bargain for Tata. The likes of Ford, M&M must be regretting now.

But the issue is the weak performance of theior passenger car division. Other than the Nano rest of the numbers seem dwindling, imagine if they did not have the Nano in their ranks. They need to take desperate measures to stop this for the short term:

• Bring back their UV volumes with the lower specced Aria nad Merlin
• The Nano Diesel, dont understand why they keep delaying this, it seems it will only be ready by mid '12
• Push Nano exports to developing markets
• The Manza CS version, lower spec and more attaractive pricing
• They need to something about the Vista, revised pricing, perhaps a facelift to differenciate from the Indica family looks

[Tstag]

Great news and on top of that JLR will be building 2 new engine plants (one in India, one in the UK) and has just start assembling the Freelander in India.

Just one thing. As good as this is JLR are going to be spending 8 billion pounds over the next 5 years on new models to expand the range. Great for long term profits. But the next few years may show some pain.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by julupani

@rrsteer
Tata in the CV segment is akin to Maruti. It is going to take decades to defeat them. How much has Maruti been hit with the introduction of a large slew of manufacturers over the last 10years?? And its not like Maruti has done something out of the ordinary. I am sure around 60% market share can be maintained, just by not committing harakiri.

As for a different brand for Tata, I dont see how this will work. As of now it seems like Tata will concentrate upto the Aria only and its line up is largely set. May be a high end 15lakh rupee sedan is the only new addition to the line up. Above that Jaguar and Land Rover will take over. So I dont really see where another brand can slot in.

And I dont think selling the Manza/Safari/Aria etc under a different brand name will work, as most people will just see through it.

Julupani, you are an expert in CVs. But the forces at play in the CV market are very different than the passenger segment. And Tata is not Maruti.

Secondly, with a different brand I meant a different brand for their future products. In all probability the vista, the manza..etc will continue in production even when their successors are launched. Now the improvement that Tata products demonstrate with each iteration is noteworthy. It is only time when they hit the bulls eye in terms of a product potential. But even a great product from Tata today, I feel, is not guaranteed success. People may not agree, but my personal take is that the Tata brand doesn't tick certain important parameters.

So they can probably launch these fresher and better models under a different brand and continue the current models and some more, under the Tata brand.

Also a high end 15 lac sedan is not the only segment they can target, a Verna/Vento/City competitor can be looked at. I remmember they showcased the Prima (concept car) in Geneva auto show last time round.
And it looked smashing. Now, I would imagine that such a car launched intelligently ( in terms of marketing) can really hold up against the Germans & the Japanese.