[.anshuman]

^^ Please go through last line of my post, that will answer the query. My post is just for the extreme reactions.

Please continue the discussion on Honda/Toyota vs Euro Reliability here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...rman-cars.html

[Bullitt]

@ vkochar:

I don't mean to sound offensive, but try defining "otherwise brilliant and excellent VFM" when you are stranded on a highway in the middle of the night (or a hot summer afternoon, take your pick) with a brand-new 20-lakh-rupee luxury car that just broke down (for whatever reason, thats irrelevant for a brand new car).

Just because Skoda cars use some complicated thingamajig technology, doesn't mean its alright for them to start failing right after rolling out of the showroom.

By now, all of us know that most Skodas suffer engine/gearbox problems. But are these supposed to exist in 20-lakh-rupee cars?

Maybe Skoda should get a declaration signed from every customer stating:

"I hereby declare that since I am buying Skoda's DSG gearbox (or whatever complex thingy they put in their cars), the technology for which being experimental and complex, I am buying the car at my own risk, and I will not hold Skoda or any of it's dealers responsible for it's failure."

V.A.G needs to get it's Skoda act together, fast.

Disclaimer: I don't own a Skoda, and looking at the way things are going, I don't intend to do so anytime in the future.

@ samyakmodi: Are "any" problems supposed to occur in a brand new car? Is the nature of the problems even relevant here?

Again, apologies if I sound offensive to anyone.

- Bullitt

[kartikk]

I mean paying 18.6 lakhs, travelling less than 4K km on a new vehicle and getting stranded in the middle of nowhere does scare people, thinking of it from saftey of family members in my opinion reactions are justified. It could be any manufacturer but seems that Skoda loves lemons.

[mb_jg]

We somehow tend to overlook the obvious!! I remember Honda recalled some 50K odd City's recently, don't remember the reason although we have a thread somewhere in here. so basically aren't they saying that 50k odd of their vehicles were defective!!
Other than recalling vehicles all other issues are isolated cases.
The alternator on my Palio conked off within the first year itself, got replaced under warranty. But, it would be unfair to relate the incident to a defective piece.
There are a thousand of moving parts in a car, & although I do agree that the quality scan within each manufacturer's unit's should be defect free, like it or not "mechanical parts do fail", sometimes due to a defective part & sometimes due to driver\owner negligence.
I have seen friends abuse their cars like no one's business & then blaming the product\manufacturer when it eventually breaks down.

[Swanand Inamdar]

This is what happens when one earns a bad reputation. OK, the car failed twice. A new car at that. But as Anshuman rightly stated, havent there been other cars from other stables that have failed? Why is it news only when Skoda fails? Or is it so that once you plonk 20L on a car, its not supposed to fail?

For the record, yes I am a Skoda owner and yes, I have had a headache free owning experiance till now. The A.S.S has been good for me, but thats a completely different topic.

P.S: This is in no way Pro Skoda or Anti Skoda rant from my side. Just a post to the extreme reacitons this thread has gained.

[black12rr]

Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar

This is what happens when one earns a bad reputation. OK, the car failed twice. A new car at that. But as Anshuman rightly stated, havent there been other cars from other stables that have failed? Why is it news only when Skoda fails? Or is it so that once you plonk 20L on a car, its not supposed to fail?

It should NOT PERIOD . Even if it breaksdown ,the turn around time to repair it should be matter of hours at the same time immediate replacement car given for the inconvience caused . I don't really understand why should you accept "its ok the car can breakdown with manufacturing defect " ? , be it 20 L or 2 L car .

Lets assume that you accept the car can breakdown , look at their customer care attitude( pathetic) towards a person who has invested 20 L on their company products .

No only poor engineering/Quality control but poor customer service .

[asr245]

Originally Posted by mb_jg

We somehow tend to overlook the obvious!! I remember Honda recalled some 50K odd City's recently, don't remember the reason although we have a thread somewhere in here. so basically aren't they saying that 50k odd of their vehicles were defective!!
Other than recalling vehicles all other issues are isolated cases.
The alternator on my Palio conked off within the first year itself, got replaced under warranty. But, it would be unfair to relate the incident to a defective piece.

Mine was recalled too. I know 3 different people who's City's too were recalled. But none of us was left stranded anywhere. Yes, defects are likely but how often and how serious is the question. Germans or Europeans seem to lead the way here.

And if my City was recalled for something again and I would begin to doubt the trust I put on Honda for being reliable whether it left me stranded or not.

[tazmaan]

Originally Posted by mb_jg

We somehow tend to overlook the obvious!! I remember Honda recalled some 50K odd City's recently, don't remember the reason although we have a thread somewhere in here. so basically aren't they saying that 50k odd of their vehicles were defective!!
Other than recalling vehicles all other issues are isolated cases.
The alternator on my Palio conked off within the first year itself, got replaced under warranty. But, it would be unfair to relate the incident to a defective piece.
There are a thousand of moving parts in a car, & although I do agree that the quality scan within each manufacturer's unit's should be defect free, like it or not "mechanical parts do fail", sometimes due to a defective part & sometimes due to driver\owner negligence.
I have seen friends abuse their cars like no one's business & then blaming the product\manufacturer when it eventually breaks down.

Agreed but the reason why Skoda is making it to news is because they are super expensive to fix, the dealers and skoda care a dam for the customer and they have not taken any corrective steps to rebuilt trust (example: a recall). A recall for faulty parts only shows that the company is committed to the person who gives them business. Skoda has complex technologies and their staff is under trained but whose responsibility is it to fix this issue? A customer should never get a reply saying "Sir the technology on the car is complex and it will take time to sort it out". If the technology is complex have the tools and engineers to tackle it else don't sell them!

[Bullitt]

@ Swanand: This is also what earns one a bad reputation, depending upon which way you look at it.

Brand new cars from all stables do fail, and it is an unpardonable thing, irrespective of the price of the car. Even if a brand new Nano fails (under normal usage), TML is guilty, no doubt. To put it in your words, even if you plonk 2L on a "brand-new" car, it is not supposed to fail. At least, that would be my expectation; niggles I can bear. If they can't assure a breakdown-free experience, I'll take the Japanese car, thank you.

But in Skoda's case, the numbers are markedly higher than those for other brands. And I feel one the reasons for this is their high-handed approach towards dealing with the situation after their car has broken down. This forces the aggrieved owner lash out in public against the manufacturer.

Instead, if they choose to take a customer-centric approach to the problem (MSIL anyone?), the aggrieved owner will pardon the manufacturer and let it go, thereby keeping the "known" number of failures low.

To summarize, it is the what the manufacturer does "after" the breakdown that separates the men from the boys. In that sense, Skoda needs to grow up.

@ black12rr, asr245 and tazmaan: +1.

- Bullitt

[samyakmodi]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

@ vkochar:

I don't mean to sound offensive, but try defining "otherwise brilliant and excellent VFM" when you are stranded on a highway in the middle of the night (or a hot summer afternoon, take your pick) with a brand-new 20-lakh-rupee luxury car that just broke down (for whatever reason, thats irrelevant for a brand new car).

Just because Skoda cars use some complicated thingamajig technology, doesn't mean its alright for them to start failing right after rolling out of the showroom.

By now, all of us know that most Skodas suffer engine/gearbox problems. But are these supposed to exist in 20-lakh-rupee cars?

Maybe Skoda should get a declaration signed from every customer stating:

"I hereby declare that since I am buying Skoda's DSG gearbox (or whatever complex thingy they put in their cars), the technology for which being experimental and complex, I am buying the car at my own risk, and I will not hold Skoda or any of it's dealers responsible for it's failure."

V.A.G needs to get it's Skoda act together, fast.

Disclaimer: I don't own a Skoda, and looking at the way things are going, I don't intend to do so anytime in the future.

@ samyakmodi: Are "any" problems supposed to occur in a brand new car? Is the nature of the problems even relevant here?

Again, apologies if I sound offensive to anyone.

- Bullitt

no offenses taken - and point well taken.

what i wanted to point out was the over reaction here just because it's a skoda. how many ferraris have caught fire till date with just fast driving - considering it's built for that?? I am inclined to believe the percentage OR PPM is higher than things going wrong with a Skoda.

I was not saying that a vehicle worth even 2 Lacs should be accepted with any manufacturing defects - the point is that things do go wrong. People do drive differently - and at times few delicate parts might break down. I am not saying that it is acceptable. All I was trying to say that Skoda is not the only company which has a record of breaking down. There are plenty other mass producers here who's vehicles breakdown every now and then and we don't create a fuss about it here as much as we end up doing for Skoda.

we should wait for a detailed report before lashing out is all i am saying.

Peace!!

[flipsyde]

Its a Skoda. I would have been awe-struck if the story went well. They should stop making cars and make furniture instead. Cos the way I see it their interior quality, fit and finish is brilliant!

I for one have the poorest opinion of Skoda and its products. Not to say that rival Germans don't break down but Skoda just doesn't seem to care about its customers. When I spend close to 20L or more on a car I want to feel like I matter at least a slight bit to the company.

I have had excellent experience with Toyota A S S. Maybe Skoda can learn a thing or two from the Japs.

[mb_jg]

Originally Posted by flipsyde

Its a Skoda. I would have been awe-struck if the story went well. They should stop making cars and make furniture instead. Cos the way I see it their interior quality, fit and finish is brilliant!

I for one have the poorest opinion of Skoda and its products. Not to say that rival Germans don't break down but Skoda just doesn't seem to care about its customers. When I spend close to 20L or more on a car I want to feel like I matter at least a slight bit to the company.

I have had excellent experience with Toyota A S S. Maybe Skoda can learn a thing or two from the Japs.

May the good lord bless me then I am expecting delivery of my 1.6 Fabia soon!!
However, I am not deterred by the isolated stories. I was called a mad man when I purchased my Palio from Fiat. The car stopped only once in the city when it blew it's alternator. Other than that, it never ever failed us.

[flipsyde]

Originally Posted by mb_jg

May the good lord bless me then I am expecting delivery of my 1.6 Fabia soon!!
However, I am not deterred by the isolated stories. I was called a mad man when I purchased my Palio from Fiat. The car stopped only once in the city when it blew it's alternator. Other than that, it never ever failed us.

Congrats on your new car! You shouldn't get put off by off beat stories. Every car manufacturer screws up every now and then. Just that Skoda seems to be doing a lot more screwing up and grabbing all the bad limelight

[mb_jg]

Originally Posted by flipsyde

Congrats on your new car! You shouldn't get put off by off beat stories. Every car manufacturer screws up every now and then. Just that Skoda seems to be doing a lot more screwing up and grabbing all the bad limelight

Not worried at all. I would rather enjoy the car than sit & worry about it breaking down. I've read worse about the bad publicity that FIAT received, although they have brilliant products.
I clearly remember a friend who owned a Palio 1.6 GTX. He loved driving it hard but cribbed like hell about the F.E I would've shot myself if I had a gun!!

[Bullitt]

@ samyakmodi: Refer my previous post.

IMO, Skoda has yet to learn the art of "damage control" once one of it's products has broken down. Only a good damage-control exercise can cover-up the incident, by keeping the customer satisfied and letting the problem go unnoticed from the eyes of the press and forums like TBHP.

But, for whatever reason, they just don't want to engage an aggrieved customer in a pro-active manner. This forces the customer to report even the smallest of incidents, in turn increasing the failure count for Skoda and giving them a bad name.

To sum it up, Skoda is the only company with a "highly visible" record of breaking down. And they choose to keep it that way.

This is precisely why the Honda's and Toyota's of the world engage in recalls (heck, even TML did something of the sort for the Nano). They engage customers proactively, thus keeping the faith intact, and the number of reported failures against them low.

And this is not about "manufacturing defects", its about "complete breakdowns", 2 entirely different things. The former need not be show-stoppers for the customer, and would merely qualify as a "niggle" if it doesn't affect the customer a lot.

Ferrari's catch fire too, but considering their client list, I'm sure they must be replacing it el-pronto, lest they get a bad name amongst the remaining limited list of prospective "elite" customers. But then, I haven't bought a Ferrari yet, much less burned it down by superfast driving, so how would I know?

(Which also implies that I'm open to any positions of test-driver in their organization. :-P )

@ mb_jg: Congrats on the new acquisition! Hope it gives you millions of (s)miles!

P.S. I feel Skoda-bashing threads like this one can give prospective Skoda owners some good lessons. Just ignore the bashing bit and pick up the useful stuff, especially from previous owners.