[ampere]

Question is where does Toyota plan to position to the hatch (esp diesel): lower or the high end of the spectrum?

If they bring in all the goodies, and add with it a tuned 1.4 D4D (read performance), it would just be the right all-rounder diesel hatch (performance/reliability/FE) we may be looking for.

But if Toyota, pushes it down the spectrum, then the game is again even.
Waiting to see what happens.

[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by akhilesh

Pure speculation and nothing else on play here. Have we heard any horror stories on Cruze reliability or its maintenance costs?

I was just stating that in comparison to the Toyotas. Certainly doesn't mean the Cruz is unreliable or expensive to maintain. It is an excellent car without doubt. I personally like it.

Originally Posted by dkaile

And all the people who comment things like "still lacks character" (like the Autocar people) really dont seem to have owned one. Own a Toyota once and you will be its fan forever. I shifted from a Honda City to a Corolla and believe me I ain't going back...

We are in the same boat. I have also moved from the City to the Corolla and it has been a happy switch. The out-of-character comment has been carried on for years. Never really made any sense to me.

Originally Posted by muni

I guess the Liva will come with the petrol 1.2ltr engine and the diesel might take some time and maybe introduced later for the Etios sedan first. Only a petrol option might not land the killer blow but only help it get some decent volumes.

Have heard that too but I am hoping they'll re-consider this with petrol prices soaring. Launching petrol and diesel variants simultaneously would be a nice way to hurt the competition. This especially with the new Swift around the corner. The Liva's main competition will be the Swift IMO.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by dkaile

And all the people who comment things like "still lacks character" (like the Autocar people) really dont seem to have owned one. Own a Toyota once and you will be its fan forever. I shifted from a Honda City to a Corolla and believe me I ain't going back...

+1. I have not owned a Corolla. But if I have to choose between a Corolla and some of the over-styled rivals, I will definitely choose the former. I think this talk about ‘character’ is really a personal preference.

[shivasuma]

I think when all these magazines say "character" they probably mean a drivers car, which the corolla is definitely not. Its the most reliable and no nonsense car in the market today.

[ajay_satpute]

Checked out the new Altis in flesh at a mall in Pune.

Frankly, the overall impression was just "OKK". Yes, they have new gear box (6 speed on Manual and 7 speed on Auto), new dash with touch screen DVD player, wood finish on the dash and the steering, reverse parking sensors as standards. But, it was not at all impressive for the price it asks for. For instance, I pulled out the rear seat arm rest and just fell down on the seat as if it was broken. I can NOT call it an arm rest. Its more of a cup/bottle holder. The SP was telling how the 1 litre bottle can stay firm in that holder, but I asked him How can you call this as an arm rest. He had no answer.

Power seats are GOOD. Loved all features. Seats have excellent cushioning. Boot is smaller than Etios. 475 vs 590 liters. I told the SP to push the driver seat fully back and the legroom was just about good. Etios has more legroom IMHO, even with this setting.

However, all said and done, the price does look good. For about 11 lacs on road, one can get the base petrol MT Altis. I think thats a good price for 1.8 140 ps engine and Toyota reliability. The base has ABS and most of the required features. Also, the delivery issues are not there and SP told me that the delivery can happen in about 1-1.5 months.

Overall, only the Toyota brand and the price of this car, makes it likeable. Otherwise, Altis segment has some stunning looking cars having one of the world's best looking and ergonomically correct cockpits (I meant the Cruze and the Civic), which is lacked in Altis badly.

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by shivasuma

I think when all these magazines say "character" they probably mean a drivers car, which the corolla is definitely not. Its the most reliable and no nonsense car in the market today.

Now that's another bone of contention. Why is it not a Driver's Car? When I upgraded from the City, it felt like a Racing Car to me, in comparison. I drove yesterday about 400kms on the most treacherous highway in North India (NH58) and underwent 2 hours of traffic jams (believe me, it was a free for all racing track out there) and still overtook all the "so called" drivers cars and on some stretches, easily did 140kmph, on a 7 year old car, without any fatigue or underbelly scrapings.

What exactly is a driver's car? Definitely a BMW 320D would fit that category, but when we compare apple to apple, I don't see anything lacking in a Corolla.

[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Otherwise, Altis segment has some stunning looking cars having one of the world's best looking and ergonomically correct cockpits (I meant the Cruze and the Civic), which is lacked in Altis badly.

What is so wrong about the Altis' cockpit? Lack of a digital speedo like the Civic? I know few who would prefer a Civic only because of that.

The Altis does have seat adjustments (electric on the higher variants) as well as tilt/telescopic steering to get you to the ergonomically correct driving position. Its basically a question of getting used to it.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Maybe cause there is a lakh difference above the Etios Liva and also most of the components would have to be imported, but other than that i too feel the Yaris would have been better except for the cost benefit.

+1. Its purely on the cost factor IMO. Yaris should be costing much more [assumption] since its not built to cost.

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

What is so wrong about the Altis' cockpit? Lack of a digital speedo like the Civic? I know few who would prefer a Civic only because of that.

The Altis does have seat adjustments (electric on the higher variants) as well as tilt/telescopic steering to get you to the ergonomically correct driving position. Its basically a question of getting used to it.

I agree fuel_addict. It is just that the cockpit is too plain jane in comparison with Cruze or Civic. Stand-alone, there is nothing wrong about it, neither aesthetically nor ergonomically. And, I am only comparing the UI. IMHO I dont think the cockpit can be deal breaker like you've mentioned about Civic. No way. There are too many other factors to make or break a deal.

Yes. I did mention about seat adjustments and how good are those in the new Altis. Quite impressive.

[Vid6639]

Even the old Altis had the same seat/steering adjustment options including electric lumbar support.

And the dials may be plane jane but the instrumentation is more comprehensive with all MID options available across 2 LCD screens. The new Altis has a white dials which look a little sportier than the older grey ones.

[avisidhu]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Boot is smaller than Etios. 475 vs 590 liters. I told the SP to push the driver seat fully back and the legroom was just about good. Etios has more legroom IMHO, even with this setting.

Same story with Civic too, has a lesser boot space compared to the city. Has to be a rather simple explanation for it, so I'll leave the experts to comment on that

[shivasuma]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Now that's another bone of contention. Why is it not a Driver's Car? When I upgraded from the City, it felt like a Racing Car to me, in comparison. I drove yesterday about 400kms on the most treacherous highway in North India (NH58) and underwent 2 hours of traffic jams (believe me, it was a free for all racing track out there) and still overtook all the "so called" drivers cars and on some stretches, easily did 140kmph, on a 7 year old car, without any fatigue or underbelly scrapings.

What exactly is a driver's car? Definitely a BMW 320D would fit that category, but when we compare apple to apple, I don't see anything lacking in a Corolla.

Maybe you should try the Laura or even go one segment down to the fiesta. Corolla's suspension setup is soft according to me. Yes, compared to the city it has more power and hence feels faster. Well, I dont consider the city also as a drivers car. About overtaking the so called drivers car, well it depends on the driver who is driving. I dont want to get into an argument over this, but to me the corolla is far from a drivers car. But does it mean its a bad car? Far from it. The monthly sales figure says it all.

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by shivasuma

Maybe you should try the Laura or even go one segment down to the fiesta. Corolla's suspension setup is soft according to me. Yes, compared to the city it has more power and hence feels faster. Well, I dont consider the city also as a drivers car. About overtaking the so called drivers car, well it depends on the driver who is driving. I dont want to get into an argument over this, but to me the corolla is far from a drivers car. But does it mean its a bad car? Far from it. The monthly sales figure says it all.

Not for arguments sake, but I drove a close friends Laura for about 20km drive. It stalled 5 times during that period though it had terrific engine response. How can it be termed a Driver's Car when its stalling issue is a known issue and quite widespread (read it on many forums). It needs getting used to. Fiesta has terrific suspension setup, no doubt. But do we really need just the suspension setup to be termed as a Driver's Car?

IMHO driving on our Indian roads requires a perfect blend of many features to be termed as a "complete" driver's car. We are not rally driving in controlled circuits. On-road experiences are totally different here. A "complete" driver's car on Indian roads is different from anywhere else in the world. It requires a peppy engine with extra on demand power whenever needed, sufficient road clearance (at the right places i.e.), a responsive and centered steering, perfect seat height and placement, a panoramic forward and rear view of the road, a harder suspension (specific to our roads, try the NH58 e.g.), easy and economical maintainence over a period of years and a fantastic fuel efficiency to be termed as a "Complete" Driver's Car for Indian road, and for that IMHO the Corolla fits the bill perfectly...

[bigron]

Intriguing how people think the " cockpit" dash is better than the "plain jane" looking dash of the corolla. I know atleast a dozen people , myself including who absolutely deplore civic's dash and did not buy it because of the interiors. Beyond the dash , personally speaking the corolla looks a much mature and rounded package compared to the civic. The recent barely there face lift notwithstanding !

[CARDEEP]

Toyota is definitely back on schedule with its launches (unlike as was feared & even confirmed by Toyota after the massive tsunami in Japan). I have learnt that Etios diesel is expected at the end of 2011 or early 2012... Good News.

Bad part... start placing order now (even if not launched) so as to get the car at the earliest .