[ACM]

Originally Posted by cediafan

This was a great post and it is such fact based arguments that make this forum such a pleasure.
Now, you are correct when you say that CoG is a factor in determining the handling. However, GC (and in turn higher center of mass) is a very important factor in deciding the handling. If I take your formula and double the wheelbase and weight, I will end up with exactly the same CoG. This does not mean that the vehicle with 2x dimensions is as stable as the first one.

That is the further beauty of TBHP, facts are countered with facts. Neat.

Irrespective of the facts a cross check would be to ask a guy who has ridden in both which he felt safer in while braking, and cornering and we know what the answer would be.

Requires a more complex formula. But Anarchy has given us something to think.

[Anarchy83]

Originally Posted by revintup

Maybe in a straightline,Yes.But wont the extra weight cause the suv to become highly unstable around a corner due to the centrifugal force?

I had a US car mag with me which measures road holding for all the vehicles in terms of Gs and suvs in general are no match for the sedans when it comes to road holding.

Anyway if your method of calculation is right,its an awesome piece of information.

revintup - I did think of attempting the centrifugal vs. centripetal acceleration calculation, but to be honest, I got lost somewhere in the whole bit and I'll take another shot tomorrow.

In the meantime, let me tell you that you are absolutely right (almost) - this is straight-line stability metrics. However, when an vehicle turns around a corner, the stability of the vehicle is not completely a factor of height from the ground but is in fact governed by breadth to height ratios. Why? This ratio will define two things simultaneously - the ability to maintain current direction where the mass tends to centre and secondly, the strange "lifting from the centre" of the roof phenomenon which will end in a topple.

I guess what I'm trying to say in a nutshell is - a sedan can topple just as easily as a SUV. Both classes are highly dependent on build specifications, though I concede that by design the sedan body has the advantage over a SUV frame.

My take on the Force 1 SUV - gut feel though it is, I'm almost sure about body-roll being high and I get the feeling that stability at high speeds around corners would need to be tested.

[Tommie]

Originally Posted by cediafan

. I am saying that I would not be comfortable pushing it at those speeds due to its high stance. If I buy an F1 it will not be for its top speed but its ride quality and ability to take abuse.

Why did Force Motors have to get the suspension engineered at Lotus?
If F1 cannot handle high speed on highways or even cross winds at average speed on highways, then F1 is the not the car for highways...its better stay like a bigger tempo trax in the villages to ferry milk and people.

[cediafan]

Originally Posted by Tommie

Why did Force Motors have to get the suspension engineered at Lotus?
If F1 cannot handle high speed on highways or even cross winds at average speed on highways, then F1 is the not the car for highways...its better stay like a bigger tempo trax in the villages to ferry milk and people.

I am not sure why you are pushing this. I am not trying to change your opinion about F1. If you have made up your mind to buy F1 and push it beyond 160 then so be it. I am talking about the risk of high stance SUVs (not just F1) to topple at high speeds and not about the ride quality.

[Tommie]

Originally Posted by cediafan

I am not sure why you are pushing this. I am not trying to change your opinion about F1. If you have made up your mind to buy F1 and push it beyond 160 then so be it. I am talking about the risk of high stance SUVs (not just F1) to topple at high speeds and not about the ride quality.

I will make up my mind to push it only if it can go properly on a high like the equal size car and price. Otherwise, why should even bother about spending my money on a piece of Chinese fibre. I am giving an open challenge here for F1 to prove that it is as good as the other vehicle in its size, power, reliability, safety and space but definitely economical to everyone's pockets. Otherwise why would a buyer trust a Tempo builder to buy an SUV?

[swaroop_babu]

FYI, lamborghini was once a tractor maker. So was Mahindra. Aren't people buying their cars? Sigh, I really don't know what the bashing is about? TD it for yourself and come to a conclusion.

[m_upreti]

Originally Posted by Tommie

Why did Force Motors have to get the suspension engineered at Lotus?
If F1 cannot handle high speed on highways or even cross winds at average speed on highways, then F1 is the not the car for highways...its better stay like a bigger tempo trax in the villages to ferry milk and people.

My opinion on this, if one wants to speed go for a sedan or a crossover, SUV's are not meant to be pushed beyond a speed limit as the high stance makes them suceptible to toppling over. I have gone up to 146 on my Scorpio and believe me at those speeds it handles like a sail boat and one mistake would turn it upside down (college time personal experience on the Enterprise class sail boats & sail board also )

[4x4addict]

@Tommie:

Do you know that Lotus engineers worked on the the Scorpio suspension as well? Manufacturers in India think that they can speak to Lotus over the phone claim that Lotus engineered the suspension. Most british car manufacturers are in financial soup and they lend their name to any brand for some hand outs.

[Blue Thunder]

Humble request to all....please let us not use the abbreviation F1 to refer to the Force motors SUV "Force One".

[ssh1979]

I would NEVER push my SUV beyond, let's say 100. on the highway, but that's just me.

- Body roll and "showing of the tail" during cornering (even long corners). To a limited extent, this might be due to tyres but largely, IMO, due to stance and size of the vehicle. I have experienced this.
- Panic or sudden braking situations can become un-predictable.

[Tommie]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

@Tommie:

Do you know that Lotus engineers worked on the the Scorpio suspension as well? Manufacturers in India think that they can speak to Lotus over the phone claim that Lotus engineered the suspension. Most british car manufacturers are in financial soup and they lend their name to any brand for some hand outs.

I heard Mahindra tried to modify the Scorpio suspension and Lotus could not do any thing and recommended Mahindra to redo the body design.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by Tommie

I will make up my mind to push it only if it can go properly on a high like the equal size car and price. Otherwise, why should even bother about spending my money on a piece of Chinese fibre. I am giving an open challenge here for F1 to prove that it is as good as the other vehicle in its size, power, reliability, safety and space but definitely economical to everyone's pockets. Otherwise why would a buyer trust a Tempo builder to buy an SUV?

No clue what you are trying to say here. What's with the open challenge to Force One - on Team BHP?!? If you do want to challenge Force One, please go take a test drive, push it to 160 or whatever speed you like (after finding a road or circuit in India where this is legal) and see for yourself. And let us know as well, please.

If you must compare the Force One to a similarly priced car, well - you can't. The dynamics are too different. The best you could do is compare it with a similarly sized SUV/MUV. Take an Innova along on your test drive, that should give you a good benchmark.

[aniketi]

I liked the Force One SUV though it has the old, orthodox looks. Price also seems to be ok for such a big car.

But after XUV500 Launch, this car looks dated. I dont see any reasons for people who will buy this over XUV500. May be one who wants more space or who wants cheaper Endeavor will buy this

[NIP]

Whats happening with this vehicle ?! Any deliveries yet !? Post XUV, it seems to have fizzed out !!

[4x4addict]

I saw the first one on the road while driving from Ernakulam to Kottayam in kerala. It was black and it had a ribbon on the hood so seemed like a customer vehicle and not TD vehicle.

Definitely has road presence and potential to succed, if Force can add safety features and adjust the price in the post XUV environment.