[manishalive]

one thing that no body is talking about is owning & operating cost. how much it is going to cost to run the vehicle over a period of time. this gives vital perspective. as of now both xuv and f1 are kind of neck to neck. so its the o&o costs that will be of impotance. I have come to know costs of mahindra xylo are higher than innova.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by shortbread

@ Skyline,

While I understand your comments, the fact is the most visible components of Force one are chinese. Whatever you see outside (body panels) and inside (dashboard, plastics) are assembled from china. Although at the end of the day what matters most is how good it is and the VFM proposition.

Unfortunately after the XUV500 launch the Force is neither as good as the Mahindra nor does it provide similar VFM. The situation will only get tougher once Tata launches the Merlin as well. Top this all with the fact that the Rupee has now weakened drastically making import of the chinese parts more expensive.

Had Force launched this thing a couple of years ago it would have made an interesting proposition. Unfortunately now it has come to a big boys sword fight with a pen knife!!

At the cost of diesel what it is, and diesel engines in high demand and short supply, this WILL be a success. Provided waiting list is sorted out by the company and restricted to one month. In short I wager that whatever Force can produce will be sold.

[4x4addict]

I suspect that some of the 200 bookings for Force 1 is going to get diverted to the XUV500. I can't think of any reason, why anyone except Firodia's mother in law and immediate cousins would buy Force 1 in 2WD without any safety features when you can get a fully loaded 2WD XUV500 with safety features for the same price.

I personally would consider the Force 1 as I prefer old school body on frame SUVs with proper 4WD systems with low range transfer case. Force should realize it has to compete with Safari and Scorpio on price. No point in aiming higher as XUV 500 will smash it's chinese body to pulp.

I have said it before and I will say it again, Force should have gone after the Bolero & Sumo first with an updated and refined Gama/Judo and then moved up the chain.

You don't get promoted to Managing Director from mail delivery clerk overnight in any company. From a company that has no products that appeal to a private buyer, you can't just wake up and say, I want to take on Tata and Mahindra who have been playing the right game for many years now.

Chinese people do make decent products, but most of the stuff that makes it's way into India is the extremely poor quality and I don't blame Indians to be wary of stuff from there.

If you look at the investment that has gone into the Force 1 according to the interview with Kid Firodia, most of it has gone into the new factory, paint shop etc. These things can be changed and diverted to make other products like the upcoming van based on mercedes etc. So basically, if Force One doesn't sell, Force can kill the Force One without incurring major financial damage as the Chasis, Power Train, body shop etc will be used to produce other models.

People who have bough the Force one will be reading the book "Learn Chinese in 21 days" to order body parts from Foday.

[Skyline GT-R]

I have not seen or driven XUV500 therefore no comments.

People who have not even seen the F1 are passing comments left/right/center.

Therefore i guess it is better to leave it to the market to decide if F1 will sell or not.

I was personally present in a showroom in Kerala where vehicle was displayed & the comments were generally good with less than 10% customers complaining about ABS/Airbags. Most were liking the sheer size/DRL+Projectors/Alloys etc.

My personal opinion is that FML, as of now is not aiming to shut down Tata & Mahindra in 1 shot with F1 but to gain presence in the privately owned market by offering a rugged, VFM, low running cost SUV with a superior engine+chassis combination.

[4x4addict]

@skyline:

1) You are talking about a time before the XUV500 was launched. Yes at that time, F1 definitely looked like a good desi alternative.

2) How much more rugged, VFM, Low running cost SUV is the F1 when compared to the XUV?

I am saying that Mahindra just pulled the rug from under F1.

As you said market will decide. We have seen the market decide before when comparing an offering from Force and from Tata or Mahindra? Let us wait and see if the Market has a change of heart :-)

[ACM]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

@skyline:

1) You are talking about a time before the XUV500 was launched. Yes at that time, F1 definitely looked like a good desi alternative.

2) How much more rugged, VFM, Low running cost SUV is the F1 when compared to the XUV?

I am saying that Mahindra just pulled the rug from under F1.

As you said market will decide. We have seen the market decide before when comparing an offering from Force and from Tata or Mahindra? Let us wait and see if the Market has a change of heart :-)

Yes very true. The XUV brings in a paradyne shift. It is a Captiva / Diesel CRV (which does not exist for us) / Outlander at half the price.

The XUV lets people eying a Safari, Scorpio, Aria, Innova, Fortuner consider it. - That said these are all ladder frame options but then how many in India know the difference from the usage point of view.

It even lets people eyeing the 10-15L sedans consider it.

The F1 now seems like a relic of the past. I do appreciate it's size and Endy proportions but this may just not be what the customer wants today.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by ACM

It even lets people eyeing the 10-15L sedans consider it.
The F1 now seems like a relic of the past. I do appreciate it's size and Endy proportions but this may just not be what the customer wants today.

+1 ACM; I have been looking out for an upgrade since the last few months. Thankfully, my hands stayed in my pockets and did not bring out the cheque book for a sedan. I guess I will wait for some more time but the XUV500 will definitely be considered.

Though the Civic was my initial logical upgrade of choice (considering I have the Jazz), I dont really know when a new version will come out or when Honda will drop prices in inverse relation with petrol pricing here. At the same time, it may make more sense to have a SUV type vehicle than two of similar style. The SUV will definitely be more spacious for longer/ highway runs. Essentially the other contender for me was the Yeti, but if I get something reliable enough for a smaller price, I will definitely consider it. I am sure there are other prospective sedan/ crossover buyers who will be tempted to make the switch too. Perhaps the niggles of the Scorpio and Safari have dissuaded us so far.

Time will tell us if Mahindra can deliver better with the XUV500 and subsequently the Xylo CS version. Interesting times ahead

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I can't think of any reason, why anyone except Firodia's mother in law and immediate cousins would buy Force 1 in 2WD without any safety features when you can get a fully loaded 2WD XUV500 with safety features for the same price.

Well, Amitabh Bachan is taking two.

[shortbread]

@benbsb29,

Gifted 2, more likely!!

Despite all my apprehensions I will gladly accept a free Force One, it would be disrespectful not to. ;-)

[Yeldo]

It seems Mahindra has targeted Force directly. They compete against each other in CVs and Heavy Trucks, as well as tractors. More than Tata, Force fits the competitor profile of Mahindra. BTW, Mahindra might also be worried over the Rs 110 Crore dud they acquired from Firodias: Kinetic!

The XUV500 at its present price is so good a deal, that Force One is sure to have so many cancellations from its initial bookings. But the targeted 5000 units per year might be still achievable.

[C300]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I can't think of any reason, why anyone except Firodia's mother in law and immediate cousins would buy Force 1 in 2WD without any safety features when you can get a fully loaded 2WD XUV500 with safety features for the same price.

My first impression after seeing the XUV - F1 looks much better than this crap. But with more details and pictures emerging, I have to eat my words. I dont see any reason to go for F1 compared with feature packed XUV.

Originally Posted by Yeldo

It seems Mahindra has targeted Force directly. They compete against each other in CVs and Heavy Trucks, as well as tractors. More than Tata, Force fits the competitor profile of Mahindra.

F1 is a new entrant and dont think its a direct competition. IMO XUV not only targets TATAs and Toyotas, it has the potential to challenge anything between 10 - 20L including sedans.

[Tommie]

Originally Posted by cediafan

This being an SUV with a high GC and huge dimensions, I would not really be bothered about top speed. Braking would certainly be a concern. Force One seems to have evoked some good reactions but at this price point people will compare it with Safari and Scorp.

It looks like you are not a highway traveler. Top speed is definitely a concern for me especially when I need to travel on highways.

[m_upreti]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

There is a short TD of Force One by odmag and I am attaching it here. Sirish claims this car possibly has the BEST ride quality in the segment !!

Edit:: Everytime I see this vehicle, I am getting inclined. The major grouse I have is the really cheap looking OVRM integrated indicators. Those look really shoddy on a 10L+ car. Most probably they sourced it from Galio.

Looks more like a cross between a Safari & the Sumo with bits of Endeavour thrown in.

Dont know how will it stand up to the XUV in terms of price and brand value

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by m_upreti

Dont know how will it stand up to the XUV in terms of price and brand value

I would say F1 is a failure if we compare with XUV price / features. F1 looks naked in comparison.

On brand value, again Safari / Scorp will any day score better - think of the numerous A$$ as well in comparison to Force. I would term it as bull #$%^ pricing from Force - its over optimistic. To make a killing and gain the share, Indian market always need to be focused on from a price perspective. See how M&M created such a wave with XUV 500! That, even after having a good brand value & a good share in the market. Had the car launched at 13-14L, they mostly would not have had this success in spite of the features on offer.

[HammerHead]

And the day when M&M launches Sub 4mtr Xylo, Premier Rio would be in same situation as Force One post XUV5OO launch!
Its not easy to take M&M head on, at least not where their bread and butter lies!!