[shashank.nk]

Originally Posted by Crazy4.Cars

Well, if you don't mind the fact that figo doesnt have rear power windows and you do not have a USB option on the audio player of the figo. The CRDI technology of 1.4 engine of the figo is some 1997 technology (read this somewhere) where as the DDIS or Fiat 1.3MJD is 2005 techonology of CRDI, but the ford 1.4 isnt that bad, shouldnt give you trouble for 1 or 1.5lakh km as long as you maintain it well, 1.4 is more noisy and more smoke once it grows older when compared to the 1.3MJD.

If you are okay with the above factors of the figo, its a much better buy than the swift. You will not only save 1 lakh, you will also get a more solid build car, i think better handling, better steering,bigger boot and more leg space.

Looks are your personal choice and you will have to bear with slightly more expensive service costs of the figo, but you will save 1 lakh upfront, which translates to 10k interest earned every year

I had booked the ZDI thinking it would be around 60 to 70k more than the Figo titanium, but a 1 lakh difference makes me think again.

This car will basically be a second-car at home, and as such wont really hit 1lakh plus kms even if i keep it for 5-7yrs. Its meant for the city,car so very rarely will i have passengers at the rear to make me miss the power windows.

As long as the engine performs well i don't mind the '97 technology. Audio and alloys i can always get it done,and will be able to get better than what Maruti gives me for sure

Eagerly waiting for the Team-bhp review and a TD to decide on whether to hold onto, or cancel my booking.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by Crazy4.Cars

Well, if you don't mind the fact that figo doesnt have rear power windows and you do not have a USB option on the audio player of the figo. The CRDI technology of 1.4 engine of the figo is some 1997 technology (read this somewhere) where as the DDIS or Fiat 1.3MJD is 2005 techonology of CRDI, but the ford 1.4 isnt that bad, shouldnt give you trouble for 1 or 1.5lakh km as long as you maintain it well, 1.4 is more noisy and more smoke once it grows older when compared to the 1.3MJD...

Quite a negative picture you paint for Figo before going ahead and appreciating it.

The truth of the matter is that Ford hit the nail on the head with Figo, and Swift has lost the plot (the top spot it once had) with new Swift.... or just say the new Swift is more of an Swift ver 1.1 as opposed to a ver 2.0 as one is really hard pressed from the outside to notice its a new car....

The fact that 1st gen Swift, or Swift ver 1.0 was a great car, is the only positive still shining for Swift ver 1.1 (new Swift). However another part to success of Swift ver 1.0 was its cost. I remember at the time when Fusion, Getz were all priced at 5 lakhs +, Swift was launched at 3.99 lakhs. It was a gold rush....

Since than Ford and other manufacturers have learnt a costly lesson, and have banged in and slotted their products at a price that ppl can afford. MUL has remained stagnant and allowed other folks to catch up. If you look at the new Swift 1.1 it has retained some of the good points that Swift ver 1.0 was famous for (nothing special or spectacularly different than Swift ver 1.1), however it has lost the one point that made Swift a runaway success with middle class..... PRICE!!!

The Zdi/Zxi are overpriced. To demand a 80-90k premium for only model with airbags is really throwing many folks off....

In a nutshell new Swift retains the following:

Pros:
Superb handling (same as original Swift)
New Interiors
Slightly modified exteriors
USB and some gizmos like steering mounted controls

Cons
The new design is evolutionary as opposed to original Swift ver 1.0's design which was revolutionary at its time
Not much different than Swift ver 1.0
Price (ouch on Zdi)
No bluetooth in todays day and age??? Specially on a refresh that happened after so long


=======================
The only proposition that makes Swift better than Figo is MUL, Swifts handling dynamics that its famous for, and new refreshed interiors and the fact that its an international model albeit with same old engines (ok petrol is modified a bit).

On the contrary Figo is made for India model. Interiors are old and uninspiring, made from other Ford models. Whereas Swift borrows interiors from Kizashi (new steering for e.g.), Figo borrows most bits from old Fiesta. Therefore Ford has been able to keep costs low and space is more since the car is designed for India where 4 ppl travel in a small hatch. Swift being an international model, requires maruti to use new panels, and space is at a premium as internationally hatches are primarily for 2 ppl.

Having said that, I think both are an interesting value proposition. Figo for the value concious and family person who needs space. Swift for the young at heart, family for 2, etc that want the need for speed and yet latest and greatest interiors, oomph factor etc. In the end, you get what you pay for.... but Maruti being Maruti could have priced this better. But after Mr.Khattar MUL has kind of stagnated again, with no new models or head turners a state that MUL was plagued with before the original Swift was launched.....

MUL I got news for you... Other manufacturers have caught on. And your days on top will be numbered if you become complacent and loose the things u were once famous for, 1st being WFM!!!

[sahakar]

Originally Posted by motorworks

In my opinion, Jazz's price cut will not make a big impact on the Swift. The swift petrol is still way cheaper! Swift has a cult following in India and I dont think Jazz can uproot that.
Secondly, if you have observed, price cuts have not helped many cars which have failed the first time around, atleast in the indian market.

Honda's getting purely revived only due to the price cuts. Almost every car company is discounting as sales are not happening. Without price cuts no way sales can be maintained in today's economy.

Cheers

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

When I agree with the issues mentioned about i20, doesn't the "rule of basics" apply to the interior plastic quality of Swift? Or can we pass it off because Swift has high speed stability ?

For me, the basics include engine and pickup, braking, gearshifts, seating, highway stability etc, while style, interior plastics quality, body panel irregularities, mileage, other gizmos etc comes only second. That doesn't mean that a car needs only the basics right. A good combination of all the above points makes a better car. In that way, I don't like the current gen Hyundai show-offs like i20 and Verna. Even in U.S., Hyundai recently met with Sonata steering issues!

Originally Posted by misquitas

Kindly refrain from making dubious generalizations on subjective issues. Many, myself included, have been very happy with the I10, but that should not give us the licence to berate other cars with generalizations. Personally, I don't think the Swift is a fault-free car...for that matter, which car has ALL basics right?

Please respect that cars have their positives and negatives. Dismissing cars as "nonsense" is certainly not expected of you.

OK, I agree. But in the same way, the theory of 'non-generalization' applies to you too - can you say that just because your 'i10 is good to you' mean that all i10s or all Hyundais are good?

I mentioned the word 'nonsense' about the 'beige'-ing of interiors, not about the whole car. Please read my post carefully.

[erohit]

Originally Posted by aseem

The truth of the matter is that Ford hit the nail on the head with Figo, and Swift has lost the plot (the top spot it once had) with new Swift

I agree that Figo is a success for Ford but that does not mean new Swift has lost the plot. New Swift has the same potential as the old model to cross 10K per month consistently as compare to Figo 5K per month now. Both of these models will remain a success story for their respective manufacturers.

On the contrary Figo is made for India model. Interiors are old and uninspiring, made from other Ford models. Whereas Swift borrows interiors from Kizashi

Figo is an old generation Ford Fiesta (hatchback) from international market. Basically Ford has given us old generation model and depicted it is esp made for India. Since it was old model it lacks in look and style. This is my worry as over the time it will look very bland and more uninspiring. Swift is revolutionary and will remain due to its style.

Having said that, I think both are an interesting value proposition. Figo for the value concious and family person who needs space. Swift for the young at heart, family for 2, etc that want the need for speed and yet latest and greatest interiors, oomph factor etc.

Could not agree more on this.


I am eagerly waiting for the GTO/Moderator review of the new swift. Given that Honda has done a Maruti with Jazz price I am sure more people will knock on honda doors. "Consumer is king" and thanks to competition.

[geeash]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Are you sure of the i20 diesel models having prices higher than Swift ZDi ?I found from the website that the below two i20 variants still have a price tag higher than Swift ZDi [ex showroom].

i20 1.4L Sportz
i20 1.4 Asta

I am talking about the 1.4 sportz model rather which is VFM and costs 6.76. It is the penultimate model. the only difference from Asta is the 4 more airbags and alloy wheels. but even that too costs 6.89. i was on the verge of buying it for my wife last week but wanted to wait just a little moire for swift launch. but now .

Originally Posted by erohit

Figo is an old generation Ford Fiesta (hatchback) from international market. Basically Ford has given us old generation model and depicted it is esp made for India. Since it was old model it lacks in look and style. This is my worry as over the time it will look very bland and more uninspiring. Swift is revolutionary and will remain due to its style.

Agreed that it is a old engine 1997 model.but i agree the swift is a looker on road. but on the other hand i saw the new swift yesterday on road it doesnt look any new either. just because MSIL has elongated the headlamps curve and the tail lamp doesnt make it look any new. It just looks like the plain old swift unless you take a microscope to see the changes. It just looks like old wine in a new bottle

MSIL has definitely lost the plot in pricing it (Zdi) awkwardly and not giving abs in vdi for the price it is quoted for...........

[moralfibre]

Quite a lot of speculation going on here. Especially regarding VDi v/s ZDi pricing and whether the Jazz will dent sales of the Swift Petrol. Lets get some facts here:

Outgoing Swift VDi price in Pune was Rs. 6,07,xxx. The new Swift VDi costs Rs. 6,26,xxx. What do we get for a difference of Rs. 19,000 premium?

• Electric ORVMs with indicator. The earlier ones were manually adjustable.
• Keyless entry and security alarm. The earlier one didn't have a remote and neither did it have a security alarm.
• Lane change indicator. Missed in the older model.
• A couple of reminders (key left, seat belt, etc). This was included in the old Swift.
• More interior space. Sorely missed in the old Swift.
• An information display on the console. MUST have in all newly launched cars.

What the 2011 New Swift VDi misses to have vis-a-vis competition to the Ford Figo as it is being compared to for the price:

• Stereo
• ABS + Airbags
• Alloys
• More boot space

Fine, but the Figo appears much smaller on the outside. The engine is a single cam 68 bhp TDCi motor that quite runs out of breath on the highways. Ford service network has quite a lot of work to do to match Maruti. The interiors on the new Swift are more upmarket than the Figo. No doubt that the Figo is a VFM product but the Swift is equally at par if not more VFM over the Figo. Don't forget that the pricing of the Swift diesel includes paying royalty to Fiat for their engines.

The Jazz was launched yesterday at a killer price and it will eat into sales of the Swift Petrol. The biggest advantage the Jazz has over the Swift is availability of ABS + Airbags across its entire model range. But -->

"So far we have got 50,000 bookings for Swift, of which 5,000 are from Gujarat. The booking trend reveals that 80 per cent is for diesel version and 20 for petrol against our expectation of 60 and 40 per cent in the two categories, respectively," Burman said.

Source: Gujarat a preferred location for expansion: Maruti Suzuki - The Times of India

The Swift sales charts will just take a mild hit since the Jazz doesn't have a Diesel. My choice of a Petrol car would be the Jazz without doubt over the Swift.

[geeash]

"So far we have got 50,000 bookings for Swift, of which 5,000 are from Gujarat. The booking trend reveals that 80 per cent is for diesel version and 20 for petrol against our expectation of 60 and 40 per cent in the two categories, respectively," Burman said.

That is because the customers who booked the swift before 3-4 months were not given delivery quoting that they will be given priority for the new car. cheap marketing tactics....

after the price increase i would definitely say that these people would think twice and rack their brains........

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by kar.carthik

Can someone @ Maruti-India explain why should a customer pay exactly a lakh more for the new SWIFT compared to your chief competition. "DON'T TAKE US FOR GRANTED"!

How about below reasons?

• Rear Power Windows.
• Automatic climate control
• Tilt Steering
• MID
• Alloy Wheels
• ORVM indicators
• USB Connectivity
• Steering Mounted Audio Controls.
• Seat belt pretensioner + Adjuster.
• + 2 tweeters.

Not to mention-

• Its a new generation International product, and not an old generation dumped in India.
• Better engines (1.2 VVT + 1.3 DDiS).
• Better fun to drive. (Based on old swift, where new one is said to be even better).
• Looks a segment size bigger than Figo.

What Figo titanium has over Swift ZDi-

• More boot space.
• Bluetooth connectivity.

Please add if i missed anything both sides.

Originally Posted by moralfibre

New Swift VDi misses to have vis-a-vis competition to the Ford Figo as it is being compared to for the price:

• Stereo
• ABS + Airbags
• Alloys
• More boot space

Figo doesn't offer alloys on any version!

Originally Posted by Crazy4.Cars

Good calculation, just that a few things arent priced right when you look at it from an assembly line perspective.

I think the actual figures should be:-

2500 Height-adjustable driver seat
9000 rear wiper washer and defogger (this is very complex to fit, wiring etc to be done from engine bay till boot door)
20000 Dual Airbags
25000 ABS with EBD (EBD and ABS are still not localized to a great extent)
13000 Integrated Audio system with Steering wheel controls & 6 speakers( even 13k is more, MSIL would have tie up's with aftermarket brands to provide them at cheapest rates)
5000 Climate Control (Nothing major with this feature to cost more)
17500 15 inch alloys + Wider Tyres (difference between 165 and 185 new tyres is marginal about 600rs or 700rs)

Total = 92000
With Bulk orders and other deals, it will hardly cost them 85k for all features.

My Dear friends, if you got a chance to peek into the actual costs that ae incurred by MUL for adding these features, you would be shocked to find out that these are probably half of your lowest estimates. OEMs bargain very hard with their vendors and provide features which are downgraded as far as possible without compromising on reliability.

[mohandas]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

[*]Better engines (---xxx---+ 1.3 DDiS).

DDIS is better engine than 1.4 TDCI? Where do you get this info from? In what sense it is better? Can you explain why you think DDIS is better than TDCi? I am sorry but I can not agree this one.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by mohandas

DDIS is better engine than 1.4 TDCI? Where do you get this info from? In what sense it is better? Can you explain why you think DDIS is better than TDCi? I am sorry but I can not agree this one.

Better power, better torque, better mileage, lesser NVH specially when revved. One of the rare diesels, people here have described as 'fun'. Am i missing something?

1.4 TDCi sure does have lesser turbo lag and good tractability though!

[Mr_Bean]

Originally Posted by crazydiablo

yeah I am looking for a decent FTD diesel small car that both my wife and I would be happy with. She wants the features, build quality and space, and I want the power, handling. You see why its difficult to find a good compromise.

.

Hmm I am afraid there is no hatch which would match your requirements. The power of the swift diesel don't seem to impress much huh after driving a baleno
I think you should look for cruze, magnum?

[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by kapilvgupta

going by the awesome pricing that Honda came up for Jazz, I did a quick comparison between the petrol version of these 2 cars.

While it misses the auto-ac, the Jazz Select has almost all the features of the Swift ZXi and then some...

Waiting for the t-bhp reviews... Me and my cousin both wanted to buy the Swift but things have changed with Honda's pricing.

peace,
~kg

+1 to that. For someone looking for a petrol hatch, the Jazz with the new pricing makes more sense than the VVT Swift. One can live without climate control in the Jazz. The cabin and massive boot space coupled with the Honda brand make it an attractive buy now.

Originally Posted by crazydiablo

I feel they got the pricing on the ZDi messed up. Would you really pay 8 lakhs for maruti small car? Even though its much more than what was previously offered, is it a quatum jump justifying 1 lakh premium over the VDi. If the ZDi had come with the 90bhp at this price, its a no brainer.

They are cutting it too close to the i20.

Absolutely. 90HP in the ZDi and an asking price of 7.5-8L OTR would have been perfect. Question then is, what happens to the SX4-D. Would anyone buy it just for the added space?

Originally Posted by motorworks

They have got a superb car here! It just got more sportier! Pricing, I think they have done justice and I dont think they are asking for too much. if I remember, the VDI used to cost around 6.5 lakhs OTR in Bangalore earlier, so a 30k increase is not much. Yes, the ZDI seems very expensive, but the sales of ZDI would be just about 20% overall. So I guess It is ok for them to price it that way. And look at other competitors like I20, Fabia, Polo , Micra. Their top end variants are well above 8 lakhs.

30K increase for VDi could be justified if they had provided the ABS option atleast. Must say that Bangalore prices will make any car look overpriced. 7.78 L OTR for the ZDi is insane.

Originally Posted by bala80

I can see a lot of comparisons to i20 and comments that it is a segment below it. I quite disagree with this line of thinking. To me now i20 and swift are in level playing field.

IMO, it is a conscious move by Maruti to move the swift one segment up to the premium hatchback position and I'd say they have been very sucessful at that. Just because the previous version was placed one segment lower, why do you all think the new variant should also be placed in the same segment? Lets analyze this more objectively - The i20 scores more in

- Space (cabin and luggage)
- Better Quality of Interiors (Assumption based on pics - I'll still give it to i20)
- Couple of extra features (Bluetooth, Auto folding mirrors - anything else?), more powerful diesel mill - 90bhp.

Swift is priced lower than the similarly specced i20 (i20 CRDI asta is over the 7 lakh ex-showroom mark IIRC) and is a whole lot more fun to drive (Ride and handling), equally good engine (though 15 bhp less on output for DDIS, 1.2 petrol mill of i20 cannot hold a candle to k-series engine) compared to i20.

Maruti has worked on the weaknesses of the old generation swift and has improved the new one in almost every area (Exclusion-boot space) and I dont see any reason why swift cannot be considered in the same premium hatchback grouping as i20/polo etc.

And lastly - anyone who has driven the swift for reasonable amount of time just cannot consider i20 in the same league as far as the driving dynamics are concerned. The swift will put a smile on your face everytime you drive it - test drive both the cars back to back, you will know what I mean

+1 to that. Even i20 owners will vouch for this now.

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

I had booked the ZDI thinking it would be around 60 to 70k more than the Figo titanium, but a 1 lakh difference makes me think again.

This car will basically be a second-car at home, and as such wont really hit 1lakh plus kms even if i keep it for 5-7yrs. Its meant for the city,car so very rarely will i have passengers at the rear to make me miss the power windows.

As long as the engine performs well i don't mind the '97 technology. Audio and alloys i can always get it done,and will be able to get better than what Maruti gives me for sure

Eagerly waiting for the Team-bhp review and a TD to decide on whether to hold onto, or cancel my booking.

I am exactly in the same boat as you are. I had booked the ZDi expecting it to cost 6.8-7 OTR. Now the pricing has me thinking. The reduced boot space is not helping either. Though this would be our second car primarily for city use, the high asking price is a bit of a letdown. I would hardly be averaging 5-7K km/yr in this car.

Only a detailed T-BHP review can now be relied upon to go ahead or cancel the booking.

Originally Posted by Mr_Bean

Hmm I am afraid there is no hatch which would match your requirements. The power of the swift diesel don't seem to impress much huh after driving a baleno
I think you should look for cruze, magnum?

You are forgetting the mileage part here. The Swift diesel is fun to drive and returns excellent FE which is a bonus.

Cruze and Magnum are atleast 2 segments above the Swift. There is no comparison really.

[bhp_maniac]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Better power, better torque, better mileage, lesser NVH specially when revved. One of the rare diesels, people here have described as 'fun'. Am i missing something?

1.4 TDCi sure does have lesser turbo lag and good tractability though!

Crazy Driver listed it perfect.

Adding some more figures :

16V DOHC (DDiS) vs 8V SOHC (TDCi) - Better breathing and precise timing.
75PS@4000 (DDiS) vs 69PS @ 4000 (TDCi) - Better power
190Nm@2000 (DDiS) vs 160Nm@2000 (TDCi) - Better torque
1268CC (DDiS) Vs 1399CC (TDCi) - Better NVH?
Intercooled turbo (DDiS) Vs No intercooler (TDCi) - Better efficiency and performance.

In engine front does this make DDiS ahead of TDCi? Well you say

Have I missed anything else? DDiS turns out lot more fun to drive than a TDCi. City driveability is better in TDCi due to lesser turbo lag, but DDiS is way better in highways.

NB: With TDCi I meant the Figo version and DDiS I meant the Swift version.

So again, it depends on what you look in a car to know whether the premium is justified for DDiS. For some one with performance as main requirement, DDiS is all the way to go. On the other side, if you want a good all round diesel with nice features at its price tag, Figo is the answer.