[biyer]

Originally Posted by radiokidb

Anyone have any idea what the scene in bangalore is? I called dakshin honda and they said yes there is a price cut. No base but jazz select its now 7.5 on road, down from 8.97. No cars in stock, he said it will take 10 days. I asked if this is valid on new orders and he said yes.

Then called whitefield honda and the lady said yes there is a price cut but only for existing inventory. They have no more stock. And the price mentioned by her was 7.99 on road.

Will call up magnum and see what they say

Radio, your info is not far too different from mine. I was there at Whitefield Honda today morning to drop my Jazz for a suspension check. And I dropped by the sales area to check if they have a price list available as on date. The sales lady explained they dont have an updated price list yet but she did hand me a price list dated 15th June upon which there is a discount as of yestersday night. The deal is like this, as per her:

7.99 lacs OTR in BLR
+12k worth accessories which include rear parking sensor and something else.

This amounts to an additional 10-12 discount on top of what was in play when I bought. This DOES NOT translate to 1.75 lacs discount by any means! So dont know if WH was a pulling a fast one or if they are not aware of the on-going discounts but at any rate, its not helping the existing confusion one bit. Interestingly, when questioned on info about 1.75 lacs discount, she mentioned that it was applicable only to delhi.

Anyone can corroborate this?

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

He said that Honda top-level honchos have instructed him to do any/all quotations in this manner, and he has to mention it as special cash discount, because Honda will not announce this officially as a price cut at any given time.

Murkier dealing by Honda here; they are trying to play it smart by not announcing it officially so that they dont get any flak from the media and that the brand value remains as it is (or so they think!)
They should write a book titled "How many ways can you shoot yourself in the foot within a day?"

Originally Posted by snorting bull

The last month rate I saw was 6.6 Ex Showroom.

The price on their website is still 7+, though that is for Pune. I am surprised to see a price less than 7L. I presume this is for the Select version?

[risga]

Just checked with Apex, Mumbai. Cars offered are 2011 manufactured. Asked the sales lady repeatedly and she was sure. Only Jazz Select is offered.

For Mumbai, OTR price is 8.53 (old), less 1.6 flat discount = 6.93 OTR. No further discounts/ offers available. She claimed this is a dealer discount. Ofcourse, we know better.

Just a reminder folks, having a 1.5L engine would push the car into the higher excise bracket. So, I doubt if 1.5 will be launched?

With their sales falling off the cliff, Honda has a tough task retaining dealers (else they get woo'ed by new entrants), so need to push sales at any cost (discounts must be their really last option; given their earlier stance). Next 2 years is a buyers market, till they get the diesel option.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

How will it lead to better re sale value? The person who bought his car at the earlier prices just lost 1.7L off his cars value basically.

Originally Posted by ghostrider

Took the words right out of my mouth. Existing Jazz owners just lost over a lakh on the resale value of their car. Im not sure what his logic was in deducing that this will increase resale value.

Originally Posted by ghostrider

Not sure how you arrive at that conclusion.

If I bought a car (something with a good resale value like a Honda / Toyota / Maruti) for 8L, then after 2-3 years, I'd expect to lose about 25-30% on the resale price. Case in point is the Swift. Go through the used car prices of Swifts, and you'll find that the resale value is significantly higher than the depreciated value.
Now, if the cost of a NEW car is 25% lower, my resale value over 2 years cannot be at a 30% reduction.... more like 50-55%.

So what I thought is, since there will be more sales with this now, the car will be more popular in the used market retaining better sales value than it used to be. I don't know how many people will think of buying a car with a premium which was a sales flop. And you have got a wrong comparison by bringing in Swift, except for Diesel Swifts, I don't see much re-sale value for petrols. When even a car which is hit doesn't have much re-sale value to boast about, how does a car which hardly sells, will ever get a good price?

This is how I think about this, would like to know different views on it.

Originally Posted by wildon

Existing Jazz owners doesn't need to worry at all (I think). If they are selling 12-16 months old cars then this discount is justified (depreciation).

+1. Unless the recently bought customers want to sell their cars immediately, I don't think they will take a huge hit.

Edit:: Its even more surprising to see everyone comparing the 1.5L loss while most of them managed a 70-80K [some upto 1L as I read] discount when they bought the car. So how much is the "actual" loss for them? And how much is the actual depreciation going to be?

[Abhi_Automobile]

Originally Posted by yogesh.janghel

I think most of the Jazz buyers ( inspired from Adimicra blogs ), got discount of 80k to 1L. I got around 80K in Bangalore (last year Aug ). The breakup of Sundaram motors confirms that the people who bought Jazz last year around ( with 80K to 1L discount ), have lost around 50K. 1.75L is a misleading figure, IMO.

I am sorry to say this but I think that some you are trying to kid yourself. The Jazz (I don't know if that's clearance or price cut) is indeed available for 1.75 lacs off. I checked with the Gurgaon dealer and the car is available for 6 lacs OTR, Gurgaon.

If its a permanent cut, then that's a straight loss of 1.75 lacs to your car when you try to sell it. If a new car is available for 6 lacs OTR, I cannot see anybody paying 5-5.5 lacs for it simply coz the owner bought it at a higher price. The buyer of the user car couldn't care less about the seller's loss. If I were to buy such a car in the used car market after say a couple of years, I'd not pay more that 3.5 lacs (6 lacs today- depreciation).

[biyer]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

...Whatever. But once stock is cleared, Honda won't have the luxury of scaling prices back up again. If they do, it will immediately be met with sales fall. Most have always been of opinion that Jazz is overpriced and welcomed the reduction. Once used to lowered prices, do you think people will flock to showrooms to buy at higher prices? Me think not.

It indeed makes a lot of business sense for Honda to do what it has done. It sure may earn the ire of some disgruntled old owners, but it will bring in several new customers in its fold. Wonder who will buy i20 petrols now. In one master stroke, Honda has turned its premium hatch into a VFM.

What does "several new customers" mean? The highest Jazz has ever sold was in the months of Jun, Jul & August- 09. Those were the only times Jazz ever sold 4 figures. This after all the hype. You think by reducing price they will be able to sell in 1000's again? I dont think so. Jazz is a niche car and will continue to be. Whatever little oppurtunity Honda had to make the car mass market has gone by and now that ground has been conceded to Brio. This move, according to me,clearing of stock and followed by a new-line up of Jazz cars with differing features. Still I dont expect Jazz to sell more than 400 cars/month over time.

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

Whoa. What's happening to Honda? A 1.75L price cut is fanta-bulous. The Jazz should have been sold at these prices right from Day 1. Though its late, this will help sales charts of the Jazz to 4 digit figures hopefully. The new prices are competitive. I hope none of the existing features have been left out.

Long live the competition! Does this mean a 1.5L Jazz is expected soon at the older prices of the current Jazz?

I dont think Jazz will be able to sustain 4 figure sales-numbers on a consistent basis. But yes, this provides options to bring into play Honda's 14-month upgrade cycle back into play for Jazz. (Please refer to a ppt I had sourced earlier)

[teknophobia]

Spoke to Emerald honda here, they're also offering the cut as a special cash discount. OTR for the Select is coming to 6.83. Cars are 2011 manufacture.

[manjubp]

Ok, here is the response from one of the Honda dealers

pls note the price discounted was for JAZZ SELECT MODEL only, these are already sold out and stocks are nil at the factory, also there will be MMC on the jazz and will be ready for delivery by next month with revised pricing.

[uday.ere]

So we have an 'official' comment from Honda on their FB page (Honda Car India | Facebook) (this is from their official FB page and not the Honda India FB page (http://www.facebook.com/hondaindia) which is a wannabe fan page).

"Honda Car India
There is no change in the ex-show-showroom prices of Honda Jazz. The offers available in the market are part of sales promotion on some limited variants in limited volumes available with some dealers for limited time."

Some limited edition this..hehe.

I understand from the dealer that the facelifted Jazz (reported elsewhere on Team-BHP) is going to be launched after the launch of Brio later this year,

Cheers
Uday

[biyer]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

Would Honda still be carrying inventory of those cars? As a customer, I would be wary of buying a 2010 manufactured car in the second half of 2011.

They would- if they maintained a decent production schedule for the last 24 months. So far Honda has sold 13052 Jazz cars in india. When Jazz was launched in India, Honda's production/sales target was 20,000 cars a month. Going by that, they must have produced atleast 40,000 cars by June last month. But I dont think that would be the case, considering well into the first year Jazz had settled into a 300-500 cars/month sales cycle- there was no need to produce that many cars. Assuming they cut production by little more than half of initial target, they must have produced at least 15,000-20,000 cars.

So anywhere between 7000 cars to 2000 cars are available in parking lots.

This is the real key to understand Honda's next move as far as jazz is concerned. The real secret is this exact number. None of the dealers seem to know how many cars are manufactured and unsold. I had speculated in Feb that they have over 10k cars unsold.

[Spitfire]

What Honda is doing is losing all its credibility and good will it had acquired from the Indian market over the years.

A market that is very sensitive to such price cuts.

Honda quite clearly you have shot yourself in the foot. In one stroke you took away

• Buyer confidence
• Killed the trust of your loyalists
• Have quite clearly agreed to the fact that your products are not premium.

The three big reasons Honda's products actually sold in India. They were poor in features anyways.

Who ever came with this decision at Honda should be walking out of the door soon.

Sales or no sales, intangible losses are hard to recover.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Murkier dealing by Honda here; they are trying to play it smart by not announcing it officially so that they dont get any flak from the media and that the brand value remains as it is (or so they think!)
They should write a book titled "How many ways can you shoot yourself in the foot within a day?"

The price on their website is still 7+, though that is for Pune. I am surprised to see a price less than 7L. I presume this is for the Select version?

On the contrary, this is a very smart marketing ploy. They have gotten the Jazz and themselves into today's news bigtime, plus they are clearing their inventories for fresh stocks of facelifted Jazzes.

My predictions -

Base version of new Jazz = possibly steel wheels, no USB, driver side airbag, shinier headlamps/tail lights, priced at 5.99L.

Select version of new Jazz = alloy wheels, USB, airbags, the works, priced at 6.35L.

Both will be powered with the same 1.2 iVTECs. Kits with gunmetal alloys, fog lamps, rear spoiler, etc. will be available at a price.

IF they bring in the 1.5 (and get into higher excise duty territory), expect the base model of the same to be priced at 6.5L, and the Select going around 6.9 to 7L. It should be aimed at direct competition with the Polo 1.6, Punto 90HP and i20 Diesel (top-end).

Originally Posted by risga

Just checked with Apex, Mumbai. Cars offered are 2011 manufactured. Asked the sales lady repeatedly and she was sure. Only Jazz Select is offered.

For Mumbai, OTR price is 8.53 (old), less 1.6 flat discount = 6.93 OTR. No further discounts/ offers available. She claimed this is a dealer discount. Ofcourse, we know better.

Just a reminder folks, having a 1.5L engine would push the car into the higher excise bracket. So, I doubt if 1.5 will be launched?

With their sales falling off the cliff, Honda has a tough task retaining dealers (else they get woo'ed by new entrants), so need to push sales at any cost (discounts must be their really last option; given their earlier stance). Next 2 years is a buyers market, till they get the diesel option.

This facelifted Jazz, alongwith the Brio and the facelifted City (and also possibly a facelifted Civic) should keep them warm till the diesels arrive 2 years later. Honda will price these facelifts and the Brio competitively, because they will keep a margin separate for pricing the diesels in-between. Smart move by Honda.

Originally Posted by manjubp

Ok, here is the response from one of the Honda dealers

pls note the price discounted was for JAZZ SELECT MODEL only, these are already sold out and stocks are nil at the factory, also there will be MMC on the jazz and will be ready for delivery by next month with revised pricing.

Shubh Honda said that this discounted price was for both Select and Base models. It is basically for ANY Jazzes left in the showrooms with the dealers - ergo, stock clearance.

The new lot of Jazzes will come with brand new pricings. Which makes the scenario of facelifts all the more stronger. I am pretty sure they have merged the X variant with the Select variant (minus some small changes), and that "refurbished" Select variant will now be the top Jazz model.

Originally Posted by uday.ere

So we have an 'official' comment from Honda on their FB page (Honda Car India | Facebook) (this is from their official FB page and not the Honda India FB page (Honda India | Facebook) which is a wannabe fan page).

"Honda Car India
There is no change in the ex-show-showroom prices of Honda Jazz. The offers available in the market are part of sales promotion on some limited variants in limited volumes available with some dealers for limited time."

Some limited edition this..hehe.

I understand from the dealer that the facelifted Jazz (reported elsewhere on Team-BHP) is going to be launched after the launch of Brio later this year,

Cheers
Uday

And that confirms it.

The facelift part is confirmed now. I am guessing the facelift will come sooner, with the Brio expected to hit markets by Diwali.

This is how Honda's future planning looks (my guesswork) -

Facelifted Jazz ---> Brio Launch ---> Facelifted City ---> Facelifted Civic/CRV (possibly even Accord) ---> Diesels.

Looks like pretty sound future planning.

[dre@ms]

Personally visited Sundaram and this offer is only for the Select model and it is fully loaded. Alloy, ABS, Airbags etc. And the colors in offer are White and Silver. None other colors are available in stock. SA also mentioned that this a stock clearance sale.

Scoop: Base model is not produced anymore, Since the production is now stopped for Jazz and it will start by next month. New version??

The price he quoted for the Select model is 6.74L On Road. Additionally there can be a corporate discount of Max 7k. He can also arrange for gifts worth 5K. He also mentioned that the manufacture date of these models would be one or couple of months back.

This offer is valid for this month alone, he didn't mention of stock. Additionally, he will check if any stock arrives with Red or Black and intimate me.

Since the color I was looking is not available, I called Capital Honda and the SA mentioned that he has only the Silver and white with alloy wheels is almost booked. Informed him my color preference and he said getting a Black is very tough and he can see if he can arrange a Red for me.

Fingers crossed.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

On the contrary, this is a very smart marketing ploy. They have gotten the Jazz and themselves into today's news bigtime, plus they are clearing their inventories for fresh stocks of facelifted Jazzes.
...
Looks like pretty sound future planning.

Correct, I dont dispute the practicality of it. Good for Honda, great for prospective buyers that Honda finally realised this truth.

but as Spitfire mentioned above they have done this at the cost of other intangibles and brought themselves down from the very pedestal they sat upon.
They have just aimed a poleaxe right where it impacts most; the money aspect. Whether this translates into customer loyalty - I dont think so.

Now people will just buy a Honda car if its practical, which is how it should have been in the first place. however, without a diesel mill, can they compete with Maruti/ Hyundai/ VW/ Toyota/ Renault/ (heck even the) Fiats?

[Gooney]

Originally Posted by wildon

^^ No, i mean 2010 early manufactured models (January - June)

Dude, where would Honda stock all the cars being produced since 1-1.5 years as you mentioned!? That would be inventory management nightmare! The optimal condition is producing exactly as much as you sell - 0 inventory. Even if Honda sells 80 percent of all the Jazz produced, imagine the pile up in the timeframe you mentioned.

In most cases, manufacturers manage production very close to demand. I seriously doubt these are January - June 2010 Jazz.