[coolmel]

Master stroke from Honda with regards to the pricing. Should have got the AT version out as well. Loved the new design especially in the silver color and still dont understand why no seat height adjuster in the select variant! What were the heads thinking??

Now its properly set to eat into the competition, if not by a very considerable margin.

Bring it on the smiles are back.

[shuvc]

Wonderful ! Wish I were in the market for one.

I can see more Honda dealerships sprouting up ! Else the possibility of the after sales experience becoming a tad more chaotic than what I've seen of late. They already struggle in Kolkata with the success of the City. Now with the hatch siblings ...

[Dry Ice]

Seems like Honda is getting serious about volumes in the hatch segment now.

How about the manufacturing facility of Honda? Have they scaled it up? Is it equipped to handle the demand this price drop might create? They should maintain minimum waiting periods to counter the Swift, which obviously will have month long waiting periods.

[vasoo]

Originally Posted by acroback

Guys,

I have a question about Jazz.
Does it have the Lumbar support, which IIRC was missing in last generation of Honda Jazz?

Did anyone had a chance to see or test this?

Even Civic does not have lumbar support adjustment. I don't see that getting added in Jazz or for that matter in any of the hatches in India...

[aaren]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

I have been doing some simple math, BV.

That's 8K diesel Swifts and 2K petrol Swifts, per month.

Now, the 2K petrol Swift enthusiasts will come to know that they can own a Jazz at the price of a Swift. A Honda for a Maruti! (no offence to Maruti and Swift loyalists here)

If even 50% of those prospecting customers are diverted towards the new Jazz (let's call it ANHJ for easier reference *thanks Aaren*), that's a monthly sales of 1K for the ANHJ already, and only from the Swift's monthly sales!

i20, Polo, Punto, Liva, Micra, etc., might see similar diversions.

(Mind you, I am only talking about the petrol sales here)

Overall, I expect the ANHJ to settle in at around 1.5K-2K monthly sales from now on.

Even a drop to about 1K per month in the lean months will be good. Anything less than a four-figure mark in monthly sales will simply not be acceptable from now on.

I think that there would be a major diversion from i20 and Polo to Jazz in addition to from Swift Petrol version. Honda engines - need we say more? In terms of creature comforts, I think ANHJ poses serious competition to i20 which had gadgets upto its gills. ANHJ still might count less in this area but nothing that one can not live or drive without - not at least to me. Yes, I would have just loved an Auto variant here.

The biggest advantage to ANHJ is not only the space but the feeling of an open airiness and the sheer brilliance in packaging. i20 (no offense meant to i20 owners) felt somewhat claustrophobic which I did not feel it in my earlier Santro. That is where i20 is going to see a diversion to ANHJ.

As far as Polo is concerned, not sure what the waiting period is but if it is still what it used to be, then again it will be a cause of diversion.

But the bottomline is come what may the sales should be topping 1000 units a month at the minimum.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by aaren

As far as Polo is concerned, not sure what the waiting period is but if it is still what it used to be, then again it will be a cause of diversion.

Polo has now no waiting period in Bangalore. It would nice to see if Polo atleast offer some more features if not expect a price correction there too!

Cheers!

[ashok_lat]

I went for booking the old Jazz when discounts where there. I don't know i am lucky or unlucky there where no Jazz's available in Chennai and i have to return back. The price quoted by Capital Honda was 6.75 Lacs for Select Edition now for the new price in Chennai(Carwale price) is 6.28 Lacs..

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

I have been doing some simple math, BV.

The Swift has consistently been touching 10K figures every month before July 2011.

As the presentation during the new Swift launched stated, DDiS vs VVT was in the proportion of 80:20.

That's 8K diesel Swifts and 2K petrol Swifts, per month.

.

I agree. The effect on swift will be minimal. However the split between Diesel and petrol in swift is not 80:20. It is more likely 65:35. Basis this the biggest impact will be on i20 since its split between Petrol and diesel is 85:15. So a large chunk of prospective i20 petrol buyers will move to jazz as the price points are very similar. Now If i were to compare the new swift with the jazz, I still feel the Swift is better for the young and the fun to drive seeking consumers, while jazz will appeal to more of the family kind.

A quick comparison between the 2 on key parameters (only petrol) IMHO

Jazz pluses:

Great space both in cabin as well as boot
fantastic interiors (quality and looks)
Honda badge at an attractive price
Airbags and abs on all variants
Good engine, though bottom end torque is not great

Jazz negatives:
very poor GC. I have driven my friends jazz and even with 2 people it scrapes all humps.
Not very fun to drive. Handling is not great
Ride quality average
No ACC

What works for the new swift:

Great looks though subjective, I feel the new swift is even better in looks compared to the old swift and Jazz
Fantastic handling and fun to drive character. Best hatch when it comes to drive even now with so many competition cars in the market.
Superb K12 engine on par with jazz and better FE
Good interiors (design and quality), may be slightly inferior to jazz
ACC available

Against Swift:

Low boot space and relatively lower cabin space compared to Jazz.
ride quality (dunno if this has improved)

From my assessment, if an average Indian is in the market to buy a car with a budget of around 4 to 4.5L, jazz will be out of question. He or she doesn't bother about ABS and airbags. That's where Lxi and vxi of Swift will really sell. But if one is looking for great space, Honda badge, good quality, jazz will be the one to pick.

If I were in the market, I would pick the swift, new looks, great interiors, fantastic to drive and above all a youthful feel. I don't mind the lack of boot space.

Now my estimates on what Jazz sales could be:
Cars most likely to be affected by jazz;
i20, micra, Liva
Lesser effect on
swift, Indica

i20 monthly sales - 6000, Petrol - 5000, % buyers who could switch - 25%, Jazz benefit - 1250

from Liva and Micra - Jazz could get around 500 consumers

Swift Petrol monthly sales : 4000 (35% of 12000)

Jazz shifters: 15% = 600

Honda Loyal consumers - 1000

Overall Jazz sales per month: 3250

wow that's a huge jump of 10 fold for Jazz.

Overall I think a brilliant move by Honda and it has stumped all mfrs. Kudos to Honda. Long live the customer

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

The ride, is one of Jazz's weak points, actually. The thing is, it rides very smoothly on smooth roads. No jerks, no hiccups. It's almost as good as a D-Segment car. But on pot-holed roads, it isn't that good. It's a bit harsh over rough surfaces and you feel the thud when one of its wheels goes inside a pot-hole. The suspension is a bit stiff, and a bit soft, if you know what I mean. Because of the softness, the car hunkers down when it's full with passengers and luggage. At he same time, it feels a bit stiff over rough terrain.

The GC isn't great either. it's on par with our Civic. It does tend to scrape large speed-breakers, especially when it's loaded with passengers and luggage.

However, the ride isn't as bad as it sounds. It's manageable. And I'm sure it can handle rough roads. Maybe not as well as the Swift. But it's good nonetheless. The bad pot-holes is what you feel in the cabin, but the smaller uneven bits it manages to absorb. Not as well as some other cars can, but it does the job.

I know you own a Jazz, but slightly disagree there
I feel the ride is one of its strong point. For me, the Jazz rides more like a European car. It may be a bit harsh in slow speeds on bad roads, but it does not throw around the passengers inside, and is actually quite fun-to-drive. And this stiff suspension is what helps in less bottom scraping (despite of having low GC). I hope they have retained this quality in the new one as well!

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Images from the launch

Thanks for the pictures Raven. I actually liked the grille of the X variant. The all-chrome grill of the Select variant is a bit too jazzy IMO

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by vb-san

I know you own a Jazz, but slightly disagree there
I feel the ride is one of its strong point. For me, the Jazz rides more like a European car. It may be a bit harsh in slow speeds on bad roads, but it does not throw around the passengers inside, and is actually quite fun-to-drive. And this stiff suspension is what helps in less bottom scraping (despite of having low GC). I hope they have retained this quality in the new one as well!

True.

But there are hatches that ride better than the Jazz. Not by leaps and bounds. But marginally better. You're right. The ride is like that of a European car. It is a little harsh, but gets better once you get the car to shift. The ride gets smoother as the car beginds to gain some speed.

It handles quite well too. The long wheel-base helps it around corners and the overhangs, or rather, the lack of it, gives it a sporty touch, since the wheels of the car are at the extreme corners. It isn't as chuck-able as I would've liked though.

[pnredkar]

I am still intrigued by the cost cutting measures that they would have taken. Not that I am cribbing

I understand that they would be getting the components cheaper locally and maybe also saving on import duties. Then there is the economies of scale to consider. The sales are definitely going to get a huge boost. I might consider one myself.

On a related note, does the new Jazz have the features such as "Iridium spark plugs" that they had in the old Jazz.

[misquitas]

Just checked up the Jazz website and even the base variant has features such as:

* PS
* AC
* Music system
* Steering mounted audio control
* Front/rear speakers
* Auto volume on speed
* Front 2 air bags
* ABS
* Rear wiper
* Rear windshield defogger
* Tilt steering column
* Central locking
* 4-door power windows
* Front/rear seat adjustable headrest

These above features are in addition to other safety/comfort features.

Now, had Honda introduced an ultra basic variant with only PS/AC and none of the above features, with a price tag of about Rs 5-Rs 5.5L (onroad) -- something like the Etios E/G variant) -- it would have knocked off many of the hatches and base sedans due to its sheer cabin space, Honda engine, magic/split seats, etc. Volumes would have come in by the thousands.

Not too long ago, the Jazz was considered a status hatch for a certain section of society. People like myself could only dream of driving in one such car. Suddenly, the Jazz has become affordable and within the reach of the masses. In fact, it is a perfect upgrade for the hatch lovers in need of a compact hatch yet spacious cabin/boot and premium features. It is a hatch in specifications, yet almost like an estate/sedan in terms of space and comfort. For sheer versatility, what more could one ask for?

Earlier, I would rarely check the Jazz thread on this forum. It is now the most attractive thread that I'm glued to, since yesterday.

[mxx]

Why is this called ANHJ??? Isnt it the same old Jazz with a facelift?

[shamanth]

Originally Posted by nurni76

Fantastic handling and fun to drive character. Best hatch when it comes to drive even now with so many competition cars in the market.

I don't agree with these points. Handling and fun to drive, Jazz wins hands down. You can take Swift and Jazz on highway drive, Jazz will easily beat swift.

I think "Times Drive" conducted trip of all the hatch to Ladakh sometime back, and Jazz came out as one of the best handler and very easy to drive.

[C300]

Originally Posted by misquitas

Now, had Honda introduced an ultra basic variant with only PS/AC and none of the above features, with a price tag of about Rs 5-Rs 5.5L (onroad) -- something like the Etios E/G variant) -- it would have knocked off many of the hatches and base sedans due to its sheer cabin space, Honda engine, magic/split seats, etc. Volumes would have come in by the thousands.

Good point. I guess they still want to maintain that premium brand image to a certain extent. They have to consider Brio's positioning as well, which should fit somewhere in 4-5L category.