[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

Still none of Bombay dealers have a test drive vehicle. I am taking a TD of the older Jazz that Solitaire still has tomorrow. The sales rep was quick to point out that the gear ratios of the new Jazz are different, I was surprised to hear this.

Can anyone confirm if this is true or yet another case of sales talk. Perhaps she does not want me to make up my mind based on the TD of the old car but she does not know that my mind is already made up, by my wife :-)

Cheers

Seems to be clearly a marketing trick. More so if it comes from a lady sales executive. Most of them barely know what they are talking when you get to technical details of the car. The gearbox and engine AFAIK have not undergone any changes and I do not see how the gear ratios would be different. The changes are purely cosmetic in typical Honda style.

[Eddy]

Extended warranty is always worth the money IMO. However, it is not compulsory and I suspect dealer foul play.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Stability and highway dynamics has improved for me by leaps and bounds just my moving to 185/60. I am not sure how much better 195 would be, perhaps someone has made this change already?

High speed stability and ride comfort is streets ahead of the Goodyears and the noise has almost disappeared. Low speed characteristics are unfortunately the same, but I guess this has more to with the suspension itself than rubber quality/ brand.

Edit: please note I have switched to Bridgestone Turanza ER300 as the Michelins were too tight a fit on my alloys. Unfortunately Michelin XM1 is not available in 185/60

That's good to hear. I've seen a blue Jazz wearing unbelievably large 17" wheels and really wide 205 section tyres. The ride would be harsh, due to the small aspect ratio and the huge wheels, but i'm sure it would grip like nothing else, considering that the Jazz has a pretty good chassis.

A small up-size like 185 or 195 would improve things, certainly, for those who feel that the Jazz's handling isn't as good as some of the other cars like the Polo and the Punto and the new Swift. But I'm sure it would be much better once you up-size the tyres.

I always felt that the Jazz is under-tyred.

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

Still none of Bombay dealers have a test drive vehicle. I am taking a TD of the older Jazz that Solitaire still has tomorrow. The sales rep was quick to point out that the gear ratios of the new Jazz are different, I was surprised to hear this.

Can anyone confirm if this is true or yet another case of sales talk. Perhaps she does not want me to make up my mind based on the TD of the old car but she does not know that my mind is already made up, by my wife :-)

Cheers

I don't think anything has been done to the internals. The engine-gearbox-chassis-suspension and most of the body and interior are absolutely identical to the old Jazz. The changes are purely cosmetic. It's not even a case of 'old-wine-in-new-bottle'. The bottle has a new sticker, is what it has.

It would have been nice if Honda had tweaked the gearbox and tune it a bit more for city-driving. A the City's 1.5 lump wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

As Fuel Addict pointed out, this is purely a marketing gimmic, since the gearbox isn't one of the Jazz's strong-points.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Extended warranty is always worth the money IMO. However, it is not compulsory and I suspect dealer foul play.

I beg to disagree. The extended warranty essentially covers the drive train. What fraction of cars have suffered failures of engines or gear boxes in the first 150,000km. Almost none.

For all but the very high mileage drivers assuming that the EW is unlimited mileage I always view the Extended Warranty as a Vendor Enrichment Scheme.

[Sn1p3r]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

That's good to hear. I've seen a blue Jazz wearing unbelievably large 17" wheels and really wide 205 section tyres. The ride would be harsh, due to the small aspect ratio and the huge wheels, but i'm sure it would grip like nothing else, considering that the Jazz has a pretty good chassis.

A small up-size like 185 or 195 would improve things.

I always felt that the Jazz is under-tyred.

It would have been nice if Honda had tweaked the gearbox and tune it a bit more for city-driving. A the City's 1.5 lump wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

Hi Suhaas,
I think Jazz is considered to be a very well handling car after certain tweaks. One may find plenty of examples of videos of Jazz doing rounds on track in Japan and SE Asian countries.
205 is an over kill for Jazz. It is said to be an overkill on City as well. Maybe a 1.5 lt Jazz specced for circuit. As you rightly mention 185/195 will improve handling but at the cost of fuel efficiency that is sacrosanct to Indian buyer.

I too found that Jazz gearing can be tweaked to our conditions a bit as our driving is different than Japan or say Thailand. But otherwise i found the gearbox to be good for it has the precise slotting and positive feedback. Honda has learnt the hard way with Jazz and for a few enthusiast they won't be bothered with 1.5 Jazz. But I wish they spec it and bring it as image building exercise.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I beg to disagree. The extended warranty essentially covers the drive train. What fraction of cars have suffered failures of engines or gear boxes in the first 150,000km. Almost none.

For all but the very high mileage drivers assuming that the EW is unlimited mileage I always view the Extended Warranty as a Vendor Enrichment Scheme.

I have owned two cars till date:

1- Ford Ikon - I did not buy the EW and suffered as the ignition coils failed & steering rack leaked. At an authorised service outlet, both would have costed close to 30k total. I cannot recall how much the EW package costed but it was definitely not more than 10k.

2- Swift diesel: I bought 2 year EW for approx 9k. I got approx 15-20k stuff replaced in EW. This includes the complete speedometer, clutch bearings, the headlight control lever (can't remember what its called).

In both cases the EW package would have been / was worth the money.

[Sudden123]

The Jazz is a great buy now. Even though diesel is not available it will make sense to go for this. I am planning to sell my i10 and go for this

[sgiitk]

So your EW extended beyond the drive train! Then it may be worth considering.

[donarun]

Originally Posted by adimicra

2nd point - Warranty does not get void if you change to other tires of same size. If you upsize, then the suspension related warranty gets void

Would suspension warranty be void on both the below mentioned scenarios ?

Upsize scenario 1 - If we change from 175/65 R15 to 195/60 R15

Upsize scenario 2 - If upsize from 175/65 R15 to any of the R16 & R17 tyres

[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by Sn1p3r

Hi Suhaas,


I too found that Jazz gearing can be tweaked to our conditions a bit as our driving is different than Japan or say Thailand. But otherwise i found the gearbox to be good for it has the precise slotting and positive feedback. Honda has learnt the hard way with Jazz and for a few enthusiast they won't be bothered with 1.5 Jazz. But I wish they spec it and bring it as image building exercise.

I don't think Suhaas was complaining about the Jazz's gearbox. IMO, the gearbox in Jazz is excellent in terms of shift as you have also noted. The poor low end response is the problem. Just like the Civic, unless you are closer to 2K rpm or higher, the initial pep is just not there. Honda could have tweaked the gearbox (gear ratios) to achieve better in-city drive-ability. Of course, this would also mean tuning the engine a bit differently.

The 1.5 Jazz would have been excellent at around 1L higher than the revised Jazz prices. Would still leave that margin for the City with the way it is currently priced. But then, this is the Indian market!

[Sn1p3r]

Originally Posted by donarun

Would suspension warranty be void on both the below mentioned scenarios ?

Upsize scenario 1 - If we change from 175/65 R15 to 195/60 R15

Upsize scenario 2 - If upsize from 175/65 R15 to any of the R16 & R17 tyres

Yes and yes. Honda is strict to the size they provide. Any deviation voids the warranty on suspension.
You can only change the tyre company or model but you need to stick with same size as OEM.

Suhaas mentioned that gearbox is not a strong point and thus I commented my friend, we have similar take on Hondas. Cheers!

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by donarun

Would suspension warranty be void on both the below mentioned scenarios ?

Upsize scenario 1 - If we change from 175/65 R15 to 195/60 R15

Upsize scenario 2 - If upsize from 175/65 R15 to any of the R16 & R17 tyres

They can void the warranty in both scenarios. Moreover in my experience EW has more to do with your relationship with the dealer than anything.

I have seen a lot of people getting stuff replaced even if they have voided warranty just because they have good relationship with the dealer / staff.

[hiren.mistry]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

Seems to be clearly a marketing trick. More so if it comes from a lady sales executive. Most of them barely know what they are talking when you get to technical details of the car. The gearbox and engine AFAIK have not undergone any changes and I do not see how the gear ratios would be different. The changes are purely cosmetic in typical Honda style.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

I don't think anything has been done to the internals. The engine-gearbox-chassis-suspension and most of the body and interior are absolutely identical to the old Jazz. The changes are purely cosmetic. It's not even a case of 'old-wine-in-new-bottle'. The bottle has a new sticker, is what it has.

Its not abt being a women, most sales rep in India have little clue about the features in the car let alone mechanical bits.

I would tend to agree to this being a marketing ploy, I hope TD cars are soon made available so guys with Jazz can check it out and compare the driveability.

Originally Posted by donarun

Would suspension warranty be void on both the below mentioned scenarios ?

Upsize scenario 1 - If we change from 175/65 R15 to 195/60 R15

Upsize scenario 2 - If upsize from 175/65 R15 to any of the R16 & R17 tyres

Yes and yes, your warranty would be void.
I've even read/heard that if you opt for alloy outside of Honda stealership you can kiss you warranty goodbye, even if they are of the same specs. Now this warranty for suspension and brake related components is void or the whole car, I am not sure.

cheers

[shashank.nk]

Originally Posted by Sn1p3r

Again the dealer is not true, honda has a form that the dealer mentions the tyre name and it's serial number for all 5 tyres. Now if you get it changed in the first place there is no cutting, even in my case if there was overwriting and change the dealer stamped it and wrote the reason as I had it in my booking receipt that I am interested in Michelin tyred car. So don't hold on get on his case and demand your right.

Dealers! They just want to sell the car, and get their commission. I'll stick to what i've told the dealer and wont buy the car without PDI and my choice of tyres. Thanks for letting me know incase a tyre change happens at the dealer level it doesn't inconvenience anyone with regard to warranty

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

Its not abt being a women, most sales rep in India have little clue about the features in the car let alone mechanical bits.

That is very correct. When I went to check out the ANSS recently at the showroom, the sales rep was effusive about the features, as is their job to be. She then touched upon the Engine Drag Control feature, and this being a new feature, I asked her what it was and how it helped. She gave some phenomenally vague answer saying if at high speed the engine vibrates, then EDC will control such vibration. Well, didnt expect much in terms of technical enlightenment, but the way she answered in that vague manner was astounding. She knew absolutely nothing about the engine per se!
I wish these people were made properly aware of the stuff that they are selling.