[Palio_2005]

Overall a slow month. Looks like it's curtains for Fiat Linea I guess. On bright side they should be able to produce niggle free cars as they would have all the time in the world to make each car. Truly exclusive I must say

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by opendro

I have always disagreed that diesel sells. Altis was selling almost the same number without diesel. i20 would sell the same number without diesel. SX4 was selling the same number without diesel. alto will sell the same number with diesel... so on. All it needs is a well priced package.

Honda City was overpriced from day one and lacked features. It was selling well due to lack of fitting competition. Now it has a fitting competition in Verna and Vento. So, they either had to take a hit or cut the price. They had experienced both.

Exactly my point. And the right way for Honda from here may be to add equipment to the car keeping in accordance with the segment standards and price it competitively. We Indians value our faith in a brand. And there is no hiding from the fact that we trust Honda and Toyota like anything and there cars, diesel or no diesel, will always find a place in our homes.
Ofcourse Honda does need to provide the Diesel option in the Accord and CRV for sure. Those cars are petrol guzzlers!

[souravc]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Well reading this months figures I am wondering if Honda even needs to bring in a diesel or not. They are almost selling as much as the segment leader without any diesel engine. I guess even today most people considering Petrol cars dont look or trust much beyond Honda. And as GTO said if they bring in the Diesel engine, that will compete with its petrol sibling too. It might hurt Honda only more and I doubt if the numbers will change much. May be by a marginal 500-1k per month which will not be justified in terms of profit. Also Diesel model will be costlier!!

You have a point there BUT my guess is that Honda is making next to nothing margins (net of dealer incentives) on ANHC at its current pricing . Low sales in the preceding months mean that Honda would have had to leave more for the dealer on the plate ( aren't we hearing about dealer "deals" over and above the official discounts ? ) , which does not leave anything for Honda on the ANHC

[RemingtonSteele]

^^ May be they are already WELL past break-even with the ANHC plant with the volumes they sold in last 3 years + not to forget the premium they charged for each car till now.

Thinking wild -I hope they dont to sell ANHC at material cost and earn on service model , just imagine if something of this kind happens then all the competition Diesel & Petrol will be hiding for cover

[anjan_c2007]

The July sales figures throw up many surprises and has totally unexpected car models that get the bouquets while some better selling cars turn laggards.
The most surprising is the sales figures posted by Tata Motors. The Safari has reported a three figure sales at 825 down from its usual four figure sales.
Tata and Maruti amply prove that the diesel preference over petrol has not cut much ice with the overall sales figures. Petrol cars (Marutis) as well as diesels (Tatas) have no reasons to cheer during July if comparisons are drawn with the corresponding period last year.
GM's Beat is going places. It may emerge as their bread and butter car.
Mahindra, a leader in the MUV and MPV/ SUV segment shows quite an improvement despite all the credit crunch and the high interest rates.
Toyota (but for the Etios) has reported healthy figures.
VW has reported good sales for its Vento and Polo.
The new Verna fluidic appears to be the darling of C segment buyers and proves to be the worthy successor for the Accent. The older Verna was a dud. The Santro, i10, i20 are having a tough time though!
Ford's old Fiesta is doing well.Guess people are realising that this car is a good buy only after its model life is nearing its end.
Fiat seems hardly worried over its losing grip on the market.The CEO Sergio Marchionni a Star performing CEO from the whole lot in the present times is fully concentrating on his new assignment at Chrysler as CEO, too eager to pay back the debts to the US govt. Fiat is low on his priority list and Fiat India may be just the lowest. Meanwhile Fiat enjoys being displayed in Tata showrooms. The Tata cars alongside in the showrooms get sold, while the Fiats on display stay on for a longer time! "Hum Honge Kamyaab Ek Din" (we shall overcome) Fiat India sings but when?

[rajeev k]

Nice change indeed. Kudos team Bhp.
Sales figures for September, after the launch of the New swift, is eagerly awaited. The after effects of this launch on other cars would be visible then.

Originally Posted by ravradha

1. Astar: Consecutive months less than 1000. Does this mean Astar will be discontinued? Wonder how much is the export figure?

A Star will pick up as soon as 800 is discontinued and Alto occupies the 800's slot. All Maruti launches including Alto except Swift had a sluggish start.

If they continue with TATA, we soon would have a thread called "New FIATs spotted in your city". Even this thread would have very less posts. I feel exclusive and privileged already

That is a nice one. Fiat, are you watching this thread.

[rangarx]

Thanks a ton GTO.

BTW, did anyone noted Mahindra silently replaced Tata as no.3 automaker in the country this month. Hope the scenario changes next month.

[RavenAvi]

First of all, thanks to GTO, Technocrat and Zappo for the statistics and the superb database presentation and special thanks to GTO for pointing out the Highlights, and also thanks to Smartcat for his wonderful graph-wise presentation of the sales charts (in Page 5).

Segment-wise segregation of two most popular segments: B-Hatchbacks and C-Sedans (as received so far, according to GTO's first post) -


(both images are clickable, and open in a separate window)






Makes for some very interesting notes, sales-wise.

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

Really improved report structure!Thanks GTO, Technocrat & Zappo!

A small suggestion (nitpcking?!): Sales figures could be in reverse chronological order from left to right - July first, then June and so on... as one is more interested in current and other most recent numbers. The change will facilitate easier reading of the data.

Well as far as I know historic data always goes from left to right. I know in an image, it becomes difficult to see. You will be comfortable in an Excel file. I would request the mods to please put the Excel file here.

My views:

1. Car sales seem to have declined for all. Increasing petrol prices and interest rates hike will affect the automative sector in the coming months too.

2. FIAT, it seems, is not bothered about their car sales numbers. What I would like to see is their income statement. Are they making a profit? If yes it has to be because of their engines.

3. Verna going strong. It will stay there for months to come till a new car is launched. A proactive price revision and Honda is back in the race. I just wanted to know what profit Honda was making on each City sold before and after the price cut. Can some one throw light on this aspect?

4. Fiesta off to a slow start as expected. I think its better to wait for some months more and see a trend. I think the sales will be around 900-1000 only with Fiesta classic numbers around 800-900 too.

5. Alto is still the leader in terms of no. of units sold. Wagon R this time taking over i10. The fight between i10 and Wagon R is always interesting. The entire automative sector is waiting for the new Swift launch. I think this will be the most awaited launch this year.

6. Vento, City and Verna are the popular ones in the sedan segment. Linea will be bought only by those who love FIAT. Sx4 is somewhat in the middle of the spectrum. Are we expecting any new launch in this segment?

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by GTO

There's still a LOT of work left on this sheet and you guys are going to love what's coming your way.

Thanks GTO, Technocrat & Zappo for the new format.

Just a thought-
If we have a comparison of the "projected sales" of a car to compare with the actual sales, it should be of value.

Now, what do I mean by "projected sales". It could be based on the percentage increase/decrease on the year-on-year sales of the industry (or that segment of cars - say diesels in C segment). Or it could simply be based on the overall increase/decrease in sales in the industry as a whole. I expect other would be able to suggest better (simple) ways of working out projected sales.

This would give a good idea about if the car is doing better or worse. Pure number of sales doesn't tell us enough.

Gosh! We guys are demanding. Thanks for the effort you guys put in.

Originally Posted by souravc

On the overall numbers when i see the figures for ANHC and Optra , they tell a very contrasting story . ANHC is a quality product which is flying off the shelf when right priced, its non existent diesel option handicap notwithstanding. On the other hand even dirt cheap pricing for Optra coupled with a diesel mill isn't making the sales go anywhere ! Overall shows how we have matured as consumers - we hunt for bargains but are cautious about iffy products / brands.

Would be interesting to understand what is seen as 'matured customers', mate.

Originally Posted by oxyzen

The fact is Optra is dated.
I have seen few people bragging to an unreasonable level about Optra, but the fact is if Optra wants to compete with the competition, it has to get a makeover. Other than space and power I dont see anything. The design is 2 generations old. And most people avoid cars that dont sell because of spares availability. (The biggest Marketing of a car is the number on roads.)
And then why buy a new magnum if the pre-worshipped ones are available at great value?

Originally Posted by prabhuferrari

Dated, yes. But you cannot call it iffy. Even civic sells very low.

Originally Posted by souravc

What more proof do you want when the sales trend stare at your face? Optra cannot even be termed as an also ran

Optra Magnum Diesel

With all this talk about Otpra being brought to my notice, couldn't help commenting

@sauravc, @oxyzen -

Oh yes! I too have seen what can be termed as unreasonable bragging about the Optra. It has it's share of issues which don't make it sell - dated look, not seen as a successful car to be in, herd mentality (or better explained by oxyzen above), GM itself not really promoting it (am surprised how people, including me have forgotten at times that this car even did exist; many people still imagine it to be at around 12L, reports of TD cars not being easily available, TD cars being in bad shape, not putting a better HU, even though it needs little extra cost given the slot is a regular Double-DIN, etc). The above brings in enough doubt in a potential customer if this car is even going to be around after a while (as a potential buyer, I have had that too), if spares are going to be available. Most people won't go around doing research on the above and probably will take lesser informed decisions or calculated risks.

My guess is that GM isn't investing in this car for two reasons - that it has has to deal with the Beat D, Updated Aveo/Uva and Cruze to deal with first; and also that an improved Optra may hurt it's flagship (segment leader) Cruze in a significant way, as it is more practical than the Cruze.

But all that doesn't take away from it being a very well engineered car.
Having recently Test Driven most of the cars in the segment recently would like to add (and I am specifically talking about the diesel Optra Magnum, have been told that the petrol/older model was no where close to this one)-

Besides the huge power (and torque, which really has to be 'felt' than put on paper) and space, which oxyzen mentioned, the it also has the following -
* An All Wheel Independent suspension (What other cars upto 15L have this?)
* A Hydraulic Steering (again how many?)
* All 4 disc brakes (IIRC, only the Linea T-jet and now the Fluidic have it in this price segment; the Fluidic was devoid of the bite and was nowhere as composed)
* By far the best ride in the segment.
* By far the best composure at high speeds across different road surfaces and situations.
* Despite the bodyroll, very good handling as well. More assured than most. (Isn't too agile, especially at lower/moderate speeds, though)
* A cabin which can seat 5 in reasonable comfort.
* Low and known cost of maintenance (max 32k for 45k - over that is paid by GM)

Optra Petrol in general, initial pricing, poor image of high maintenance (from the Opel Astra days), possibly being introduced at the wrong time, not enough change between the older Optra and the Optra Magnum would be other possible reasons for this not to do well.

There are many reasons for what numbers a car shows in it's sales figures. Ask Fiat (Linea), Mitsubishi(Cedia) (and depending how we see it, possibly even Rolls Royce!! )

If sales were the way to judge a product, Maruti would have been the only manufacturer and Cedia would have probably been the worst C/C+ segment sedan.

PS: And might I add, IMO the interior quality (quality, not design) of the Optra is better than NFF, Vento, questionably about as good as Verna (I really liked the interiors quality on the Fluidic), SX4, Linea, Manza!! Team-Bhp Test Drives also rate the Optra's reliability as "Excellent". Really do NOT see that as Iffy quality. Dated looks - yes. Iffy quality - no. Ask the owners of this car. I could go on, but realized that I already overdid it for this thread. More on the Spacious Diesel Sedans or Driven! thread, if you wish to discuss it further.

PPS: Yes, I like the Optra package, but am not blind to where it doesn't do too well. Just that the Optra (Magnum Diesel) is not tried out enough, before an opinion is formed about it.

Whew! What all I do for this car. Wonder if GM ever bothered enough about this. LOL

Originally Posted by nanduchitnis

I own the ANHC just a year old, and they drop prices Rs 70 thousand. Feel cheated. But the hike in fuel prices @ 70/- per ltr killed the City and petrol cars including the Vento and buyers shifted to diesel cars. Todays papers point to a recession in the auto sector. Which is good news because we need fewer cars on our congested roads.
I work for ONGC and we drill for oil day and night and there is nothing down below.

Within the next 5 yrs automobiles must run on fuels other than fossil fuels. Today we pay Rs 70/- by next year we will pay Rs 100/- per ltr. For pensioners like me we will have ANHC's, all garaged and travel by Public transport.

We take fuel hikes for granted and adjust. No longer. Give and take 5 years fossil fuels will be unafordable.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by jods

No wonder you are not finding anything. You should be drilling in Middle East. Anyway the beauty of capitalism is that as the resources get diminished, their prices rise, innovation creeps in and alternate resources become economically viable.

We need to spare a thought about people who are towards the end of their active earning years in life. Major inflation and diminished resources hurt them more, as inflation doesn't increase the inflow of funds - only the outflow increases.

Yes, other resources will become relatively viable. May still remain unviable for those who's inflow of funds hasn't increased.

The new format is really good. Could we limit the months shown to the last three months along with last year's figures? Otherwise as the year passes by the number of columns would keep on increasing and we would need to scroll back and forth. Or else can the width of columns/font size be reduced?

+1 to that.
Last years figures for the same month would be very much welcome.
Adding the excel sheet as an attachment too, would be very much welcome.

[Chrome6Boy]

I've been looking to buy a diesel car in this segmentl and having taken Poitive's advice I test drove the Optra. I absolutely loved it! All his points below held merit. However having already owned an Elantra which I sold recently for a dismal resale value, I am wary of buying any car which is nearing its end. My wife and parents also were not for me buying the Optra even though it was really nice.

I've booked the fluidic which will no doubt be a decent car with good resale value. It will not match the Optra in terms of sheer power or handling. There is no perfect car in this segment and everyone who buys makes some compromise.

To summarize I disagree with any opinion that says that Optra is not selling because it is not a quality product or that our population is mature because they chose to buy the ANHC over the Optra in greater numbers. My humble opinion is that Optra does not sell only because of 3 reasons

1. Potential end of life cycle
2. Dated looks
3. Poor resale value

Originally Posted by Poitive

Optra Magnum Diesel

With all this talk about Otpra being brought to my notice, couldn't help commenting

@sauravc, @oxyzen -

Oh yes! I too have seen what can be termed as unreasonable bragging about the Optra. It has it's share of issues which don't make it sell - dated look, not seen as a successful car to be in, herd mentality (or better explained by oxyzen above), GM itself not really promoting it (am surprised how people, including me have forgotten at times that this car even did exist; many people still imagine it to be at around 12L, reports of TD cars not being easily available, TD cars being in bad shape, not putting a better HU, even though it needs little extra cost given the slot is a regular Double-DIN, etc). The above brings in enough doubt in a potential customer if this car is even going to be around after a while (as a potential buyer, I have had that too), if spares are going to be available. Most people won't go around doing research on the above and probably will take lesser informed decisions or calculated risks.

My guess is that GM isn't investing in this car for two reasons - that it has has to deal with the Beat D, Updated Aveo/Uva and Cruze to deal with first; and also that an improved Optra may hurt it's flagship (segment leader) Cruze in a significant way, as it is more practical than the Cruze.

But all that doesn't take away from it being a very well engineered car.
Having recently Test Driven most of the cars in the segment recently would like to add (and I am specifically talking about the diesel Optra Magnum, have been told that the petrol/older model was no where close to this one)-

Besides the huge power (and torque, which really has to be 'felt' than put on paper) and space, which oxyzen mentioned, the it also has the following -
* An All Wheel Independent suspension (What other cars upto 15L have this?)
* A Hydraulic Steering (again how many?)
* All 4 disc brakes (IIRC, only the Linea T-jet and now the Fluidic have it in this price segment; the Fluidic was devoid of the bite and was nowhere as composed)
* By far the best ride in the segment.
* By far the best composure at high speeds across different road surfaces and situations.
* Despite the bodyroll, very good handling as well. More assured than most. (Isn't too agile, especially at lower/moderate speeds, though)
* A cabin which can seat 5 in reasonable comfort.
* Low and known cost of maintenance (max 32k for 45k - over that is paid by GM)

Optra Petrol in general, initial pricing, poor image of high maintenance (from the Opel Astra days), possibly being introduced at the wrong time, not enough change between the older Optra and the Optra Magnum would be other possible reasons for this not to do well.

There are many reasons for what numbers a car shows in it's sales figures. Ask Fiat (Linea), Mitsubishi(Cedia) (and depending how we see it, possibly even Rolls Royce!! )

If sales were the way to judge a product, Maruti would have been the only manufacturer and Cedia would have probably been the worst C/C+ segment sedan.

PS: And might I add, IMO the interior quality (quality, not design) of the Optra is better than NFF, Vento, questionably about as good as Verna (I really liked the interiors quality on the Fluidic), SX4, Linea, Manza!! Team-Bhp Test Drives also rate the Optra's reliability as "Excellent". Really do NOT see that as Iffy quality. Dated looks - yes. Iffy quality - no. Ask the owners of this car. I could go on, but realized that I already overdid it for this thread. More on the Spacious Diesel Sedans or Driven! thread, if you wish to discuss it further.

PPS: Yes, I like the Optra package, but am not blind to where it doesn't do too well. Just that the Optra (Magnum Diesel) is not tried out enough, before an opinion is formed about it.

Whew! What all I do for this car. Wonder if GM ever bothered enough about this. LOL

[vishwas]

The spreadsheet idea is very nice. One suggestion is to make it easier visually to trace across the row for a model to the last column (for the current month) - by perhaps coloring the numbers of all models of a brand with one color and the next brand with another.

I have a theory - many of the would-be hatch-back buyers have now bought entry sedans instead. There are so many more small sedans now. There may even be a growth in the number of small sedans and fall in premium hatch numbers MoM. Another suggestion, for your spreadsheet, can you also please aggregate number of cars per segment (across all brands and models) and track this monthly.

[arnabchak]

Originally Posted by headbanger

Logged in umpteen times to see if the score card is out yet!!!
Petrol cars have indeed taken a royal beating. TOI mentioned a report wherein Maruti has suffered a decline of 25% vis a vis sales in July 2010

HEadbanger,

A small correction here.

Maruti has reported a whooping 30% decline in its sales.

But this can mainly be attributed to the stopping of its highly popular Swift in order to get the updated version and its labour unrest.

[Caramba]

• Interesting what a price cut can do for sales. I really think Honda over does it on the brand aspect. Overvaluation will hurt them in the long run.
• Looks like the new Verna has got it so spot on, it is canabalising its smaller siblings market share
• And what gives with Toyota's yo yo figures for the camry? The altis seems have gotten second wind, all the G&G seems to be working.

Great format by the way. It really makes for good viewing.

[RGK]

Nice and Convenient Report. Thanks to the team.

Figo sales have slowed down considerably from Jan except Mar'11. Recent price hike with downgraded features may make things worse. Figo is a car that should be in the 7-8k sales bracket.

If Beat succeeds in the city market then it will hit further the American company. New Swift will also worry Ford.

3 digit sales for the highway beast Punto is really worrying. I think Fiat does not care as long as their engine sales are good.
@cliffhanger - Thanked you not only for Punto but also for Illayaraja's magic

Generally in the C segment, resale value of the car plays an influential decision while buying.