[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

With the improved and more VFM Jazz at 6.5 lakhs, the Etios Liva will have a tough time in the market. You now have a premium and solid hatch in the Jazz at 5-7 lakhs. Why would anyone buy a petrol Etios Liva, which, when compared to the Jazz (fit-finish-quality-refinement-space) is a bit of a sorry story.

It's the diesel Etios that will save the day for Toyota. Even the diesel variant will have the going pretty tough, now that the new Swift is out.

You are right. One would buy the Jazz only if he was looking for a petrol hatch. The Liva/Etios diesel variants should do very well IMO. The mid variant of the Liva in Diesel should cost around the same OTR as the Jazz. Makes sense for someone interested in a diesel hatch assuming he can live with the average interiors of the Liva.

I TD'ed the Liva recently and found it pretty good. Low end response was much better than the Jazz. Its a city car after all and all that low end torque does help. No, I may never buy the Liva because of the centre mounted instrument cluster. But for someone looking for a diesel hatch, the Liva isn't a bad proposition. Its a proper 5 seater and has decent boot space. The VX Liva in Diesel maybe priced close to 8L OTR and yet not have ACC, MID, etc. So I don't think the top variants (V, VX) will sell much. The G with SP makes most sense.

With the problems at Maruti's Manesar plant, who knows, the Liva Diesel might do better than the Swift in the initial few months. Only time will tell.

[tj123]

Even diesel Liva won’t find the going easy as mainly due the cost factor and average equipment level on offer. In my opinion except interior space this vehicle does not have any major USP.

On the top end variant the Swift & Polo will make life difficult , middle and lower variants of Liva will just be overrun by the sheer value for money package offered by the Figo.

Surely Maruti’s Manaser issues will help Toyota add up some numbers to the Liva kitty.

[AmarPaithankar]

In our country, BRAND is more important than the product.
This is the sole reason why certain manufacturers from Germany manage to sell their inferior products at a premium and that too in respectable volumes.

More than anything else, the Liva has a prominent "T" badge upfront and the infamous "D-4D" logo on either of the front fenders or the hatch. These are more than sufficient for the Liva to sell in volumes, quality, service, etc notwithstanding.

Had it been the other way, i.e. had we Indians appreciated the product over the brand, the Tata Nano would have broken all sales records.

Originally Posted by tj123

Even diesel Liva won’t find the going easy as mainly due the cost factor and average equipment level on offer. In my opinion except interior space this vehicle does not have any major USP.

On the top end variant the Swift & Polo will make life difficult , middle and lower variants of Liva will just be overrun by the sheer value for money package offered by the Figo.

Surely Maruti’s Manaser issues will help Toyota add up some numbers to the Liva kitty.

[DieselAddikt]

Originally Posted by mayank10

IMO, for people with budget of approx 5 lakhs, Liva is a good car. It is a T afterall.

You summed it up pretty well there.

It is a T after all. And that is why a lot of people buy it. A 'T' for 5 lakhs is irresistible, however cheap the interiors are. Agree about the paint. But that is not where i will be looking at everyday as a driver.

And coming to the handling department, I have driven the Etios and did not find anything "wow" about it. It's just an ordinary car with cheap interiors. Personally, i'd choose Dezire over Etios any given day.

If Liva D is launched with a reasonable price increase (not the 1L INR mentioned here) then we might find more value in the package.

P.S: I don't own a Dezire. I drive a Tata. Another T with not so good interiors.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by mayank10

Regarding your first question, I bought the Liva (you can kill me for that) because it just made more sense to me. It is obvious that Etios family is not at all having tough time in the market and each expert's review verifies this (Please check the MOD's review as well). Etios is already the segment leader, so we can assume that how well would the diesel variant be welcomed in the market.
Though, since the Jazz has reduced the prices, only the top end petrol variants of Liva would suffer IMHO. But so will happen with top variants of Swift, Fabia, Polo, i20, etc.

Liva has one of the best in class interior space and one of the best paint quality. The only department it lacks is the interior finish, which can be spruced up to an extent. I don't expect a car to look like a cockpit, and so do 90% of the people in this country. Handling and suspension are great and none of the people who drove my Liva complained about NVH, i am not sure about Etios though.

To add on to it, Liva comes with safety features with middle variants also (G+ onward) That is an exception in this segment (Jazz IMO is a segment higher, and Swift has all these features in top end only) Middle variants of Liva are 5-5.5 lakhs OTR in Kerala (G and G+ respectively). So almost 1 lakh difference with Jazz OTR (base version).
IMO, for people with budget of approx 5 lakhs, Liva is a good car. It is a T afterall.

Last but not the least, i just love the Jazz as well. I just can't own it.

Great point.

It is a T after all, and that rings several 'sensible-bells' for several people. And now a Toyota at 5 lakhs is a dream-come-true for many people aspiring for a T. However, I'd like to say that toyota could have done a better job with the Etios and the Liva. Better interiors would have been appreciated, and flimsy bits could have been replaced with something that is sturdy.

I mean, it doesn't have to scream 'quality', even though Toyota does so, in their slightly-misleading advertisements on the telly and the papers. I'm sure people would have been ready to shell out an extra 50k, if the quality was good.

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

You are right. One would buy the Jazz only if he was looking for a petrol hatch. The Liva/Etios diesel variants should do very well IMO. The mid variant of the Liva in Diesel should cost around the same OTR as the Jazz. Makes sense for someone interested in a diesel hatch assuming he can live with the average interiors of the Liva.

I TD'ed the Liva recently and found it pretty good. Low end response was much better than the Jazz. Its a city car after all and all that low end torque does help. No, I may never buy the Liva because of the centre mounted instrument cluster. But for someone looking for a diesel hatch, the Liva isn't a bad proposition. Its a proper 5 seater and has decent boot space. The VX Liva in Diesel maybe priced close to 8L OTR and yet not have ACC, MID, etc. So I don't think the top variants (V, VX) will sell much. The G with SP makes most sense.

With the problems at Maruti's Manesar plant, who knows, the Liva Diesel might do better than the Swift in the initial few months. Only time will tell.

Precisely.

I don't see the petrol Etios-Liva doing as well as its diesel counterpart would. Look at the sales of the petrol and diesel i20 and compare them, you'll know what I mean.

The top-end diesel Liva @ 8 lakhs is a bit much, when you get other cars like the Polo, Punto and the Fabia at that price, with more features (Punto in particular). So my guess is that the low-mid variants of the diesel Liva are the variants that will get Toyota's cash-registers ringing.

Originally Posted by AmarPaithankar

In our country, BRAND is more important than the product.
This is the sole reason why certain manufacturers from Germany manage to sell their inferior products at a premium and that too in respectable volumes.

More than anything else, the Liva has a prominent "T" badge upfront and the infamous "D-4D" logo on either of the front fenders or the hatch. These are more than sufficient for the Liva to sell in volumes, quality, service, etc notwithstanding.

Had it been the other way, i.e. had we Indians appreciated the product over the brand, the Tata Nano would have broken all sales records.

Nail. On. Head.

Brand is a vital thing in India. People are brand-conscious.

But in this case, it might work against Toyota's favour. You see, the new Swift is an established brand in India, and Maruti-Suzuki are renowned for their after-sales-service and image. In fact, the Swift is a brand by itself now, in India. Much like how the iconic 800 was, and still is. People went to the extent of saying that the Swift was/is India's next breakthrough car, the next 800, and in many ways, it was.

So when one talks about brand, the Swift makes a strong case for itself in our market. It's a much-loved car. So Toyota will find the going tough, and won't be able to rely on their brand, alone!

[AutoIndian]

There is official news now that the launch of the Toyota Etios / Liva diesel is indeed on 9th September. Refer this link on Motoroids.

Toyota Etios / Liva diesel launch on 9th September

Hope our TBHP mods get to test drive it asap & start a new thread in the Offical New Car Reviews section. This would be one review that I would be very keenly hooked to

[AmarPaithankar]

News has just come in that Toyota will be launching the diesel Etios sedan and Liva hatch together sometime in early September.

Both, sedan as well as hatch will have identical 1.4 litre diesels.

The I was informed wrongly by the person driving / testing the Liva diesel that the Liva will have a 1.2litre diesel.

1.4 D-4D unit is similar to the one found in the up-market Corolla diesel but may not have the VGT that comes in the Corolla. Instead a fixed geometry turbocharger will be seen doing duty. Power is rumored to be around 75 bhp.

This is identical to the Swift - Swift Dzire combination and as both, Toyota as well as Suzuki are strong brands with a loyal fan following, it would be interesting to watch what unfolds in the fiercely contested diesel hatch / budget sedan blockbuster ably directed by the Government of India's fuel policy.

India is indeed a queer market where government policies decide the future product plans of our manufacturer rather than market trends.

[rajneeesh]

MSIL needs to get its act together at the Manasar plant and ramp up production. The absence of the Swift and Dzire twins from the market is making life a tad too easy for the new entrants. The labour rlations may well be the most formidable challange being faced by the company.

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

MSIL needs to get its act together at the Manasar plant and ramp up production. The absence of the Swift and Dzire twins from the market is making life a tad too easy for the new entrants. The labour rlations may well be the most formidable challange being faced by the company.

The labor unrest has come at a wrong time. It was a good opportunity for MSIL to consolidate with the new swift. Now they will face a serious challenge in meeting the demand and may lose consumers to competition.

[xingamazon]

Originally Posted by nurni76

The labor unrest has come at a wrong time. It was a good opportunity for MSIL to consolidate with the new swift. Now they will face a serious challenge in meeting the demand and may lose consumers to competition.

I might be wrong, but I am guessing Swift is produced in Gurgaon plant not Manesar, but Dzire is produced in Manesar.
I might be wrong with my memory.

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by xingamazon

I might be wrong, but I am guessing Swift is produced in Gurgaon plant not Manesar, but Dzire is produced in Manesar.
I might be wrong with my memory.

Yes you are. In fact it is the other way. swift is produced in manesar and they have moved Dzire production to gurgaon.

[RavenAvi]

Official confirmation of September 9th launch is up -

"Yes, we are launching the diesel variants of the two cars on September 9. We aimed to introduce the two versions in August, but had to postpone by a month due to the earthquake and tsunami in Japan," Toyota Kirloskar Motor (TKM) Deputy Managing Director Sandeep Singh (Marketing) said.

He, however, declined to share further details such as engine specifications and price, saying these information will be announced on the day of launch.

When asked about the production plans, Singh said: "At present we are making about 6,000 units of Etios and Liva. We are ramping up the production volume to 6,800-7,000 units by the October that will include the diesel versions also."

On waiting period of the two models, he said the Etios is available almost off-the-shelf but Liva will have a waiting period of up to one month.

Singh had earlier said the company is planning to sell 60,000 units of both Etios and Liva, of which over 20,000 units are likely to be Liva.

Full story here - Toyota to launch diesel variants of Etios, Liva next week - The Economic Times

[aaren]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Great point.

It is a T after all, and that rings several 'sensible-bells' for several people. And now a Toyota at 5 lakhs is a dream-come-true for many people aspiring for a T.
I mean, it doesn't have to scream 'quality', even though Toyota does so, in their slightly-misleading advertisements on the telly and the papers. I'm sure people would have been ready to shell out an extra 50k, if the quality was good.

Precisely.

I don't see the petrol Etios-Liva doing as well as its diesel counterpart would. Look at the sales of the petrol and diesel i20 and compare them, you'll know what I mean.

Nail. On. Head.

Brand is a vital thing in India. People are brand-conscious.

But in this case, it might work against Toyota's favour. You see, the new Swift is an established brand in India, and Maruti-Suzuki are renowned for their after-sales-service and image.
So when one talks about brand, the Swift makes a strong case for itself in our market. It's a much-loved car. So Toyota will find the going tough, and won't be able to rely on their brand, alone!

I would rate this discussion as an outstanding one talking in pretty much objective terms !!!

If there is one thing that I think Toyota is fast catching up is in the area of service network. Am sure with so many Qualis and Innovas being used in the commercial space, their network would be strong and they will only further strengthen it.

My take is: one might have good features in a car but if it is not backed by - quality and quantity - after sales service and network, then the car manufacturer is going to be in trouble. Case in point. Tata and Fiat. Maruti has so far outscored everyone else in this regard. And I remember the time, when Maruti 800 was the object of desire for everyone, my friends used to comment: "But where is the after sales network like Premier and / or Amby. The spares of these cars are cheaper. Not only that but we are sure that during the monsoons, Maruti is going to have problems". Maruti have proved otherwise as we all know. The point is that no company can take either the market or the customers for granted. And this is where Toyota's vast experience will come in of help.

True their products Etios and Liva do not scream quality; their plastics might not look good but especially the latter point probably holds good for 10 to 15% of buying populace. For the rest, what matters is reasonable comfort, space and driveability for some and being driven for the majority.

Hence, I feel that Toyota in India will go from strength to strength from here on.

[volkman10]

Launch of Etios/Liva Diesel is now on 7th September!

Cheers!

Toyota Etios/Liva Diesel Coming Soon!| Zigwheels.com

[volkman10]

Etios/Liva diesels to get 68hp engine !

"Toyota will be launching the Etios and Etios Liva with diesel power later this week (9th September) and till date everyone was expecting a 76 BHP oil burner to power these India made models. Toyota is using the same 1.4-liter D-4D motor which does duty in the Corolla Altis, sans the variable geometry turbo. Thus the Etios twins will produce 68 BHP of power in diesel guise, which will help the car achieve close to 22 kmpl of mileage as certified by ARAI. Dealers have already commenced the bookings of the diesel models and you too can book yours for Rs. 50,000/-."

Toyota Etios and Liva Get 68 BHP Diesel Engines | MotorBeam - Indian Car Bike News & Reviews