[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Dr Mohitg, you say you own an Innova. So no point argueing with you. You will never accept it. But I would reiterate, Scorpio IS better than Innova in all aspects. Infinitely better looks, lesser price, more powerful, higher top speed and better acceleration. Ok, I am not sure about FE. Innova may be a bit better here but Scorp won't be much off mark either. To me Innova means taxi or a big delievry van. Innova fans may be up in arms but I do not have to agree with them, do I? BTW, why do you try so hard to keep the Toyota flag flying. I own a Lancer and an A-Star but I do not say Lancer is the best sedan or A-Star is the best hatch. I own cars; not a stake in Mitsu or Suzuki, so why should I be killing myself argueing with everyone and trying to prove that they are the best.

I am assuming that you dont consider the following in "All Aspects" in any significant way : better interior plastics that age well, lower rattles over life, significantly higher interior space for driver and all passengers, lower body roll that translates into lesser passenger fatigue over long drives, rear AC vents that do not freeze your feet, longer engine life, better sales and service experience and over all, a badge that has stood the test of time for quality, reliability and no nonsense ownership.

IMHO, performance in these areas define a true utility vehicle for me anyday. If I had to compete on top speed and performance, most of the sedans would beat Scorpio hollow. To me, buying a 8 seater because of looks (subjective), a marginally higher top speed or accleration while ignoring other areas is like staying in a tropical climate and choosing a AC for its looks and its "Heating" properties as opposed to its "cooling" properties.

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

Please review Galaxy Toyota Job cards and the Toyota ETIOS missing weather gaskets photograph clicked at the same time. From outside and after opening the door.

Finally you've given some credence to the problems being faced by you. And we do appreciate your concerns. However, there still are misgivings about the neutrality of your approach. Out of the frustration arising from mismatch with your expectations, you seem to have taken a rather extreme stance about the car. Here are some pointers to what I am saying:

• Your website is strewn with complaints of insignificant problems and even non-issues as drmohitg has already pointed out.
• Your posts are replete with harsh words about car often without specifying exact problems / grossly exaggerating a problem (comparison with state transport bus / Tata truck etc.). In fact, you are rubbishing the car completely by refusing to acknowledge any strength in it, which is quite peculiar. E.g. you've even complained about poor ride quality of the car. Poor ride quality in Etios! Balanced ride quality is actually a major strength of Etios. Either you've got a rank lemon served or you're wearing tinted glasses and taken up an agenda to rubbish the car.
• Your assertion that the car is selling because of biased internet reviews. Pray tell me, how many Indians buying cars really depend on internet reviews? Word of mouth is the biggest mode of promotion in this country. Also, please go through the numerous reviews (including official test drives) on Etios and Liva on this forum and let the community know which ones you find deliberately biased.

I think a balanced approach will help you better in getting really heard by Toyota and others. It will also help you enjoy the car to the extent you can.

Now, I request you to please give us further clarity on the following:

1. The date is not visible on the job card. One would like to know when was the last you tried to get your problems sorted out.
2. I had shared with you my interaction with A.S.S. people that some batch(es) of Etios were tuned excessively for FE and the cars were vibrating heavily. Service Engineer had claimed that a simple ECU reprogramming can resolve the problem to a great extent in such cases. Apparently, your car might be from that batch. (You've mentioned both vibrations and low pick-up.) Pl. confirm if you've already covered this possibility.
3. I find it peculiar that vibrations at idle are giving you backache. At the risk of sounding childish, let me again suggest that you might be keeping your seat a little too pushed back. I am daring to suggest this again because the Etios seats are placed higher than usual and one has the tendency to keep it at the same horizontal distance from the pedals, whereas one actually needs to move a little closer. This happens especially if you're also continuing with your older ride, as was in my case.

I request you to keep sharing full details with the community.

And I sincerely hope you get early resolutions to your problems!

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

I am daring to suggest this again because the Etios seats are placed higher than usual and one has the tendency to keep it at the same horizontal distance from the pedals, whereas one actually needs to move a little closer. This happens especially if you're also continuing with your older ride, as was in my case.

Exactly, the seats are a littler higher than usual. Also the reclining angle matters a lot. The first day of driving my Liva, had some sort of uneasy feel. Today morning tried a lot of variations like the reclining angle, how far the seat can be pulled back for being in comfort. The experiment has paid off. Today drove for around 35 kms in absolute city traffic with too many morons on road. Absolutely no issues and the drive felt a lot better.

[wickedchauhan]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Indians have well-known the meaning of long-term reliability since 1983 when the lowly M800 was launched. It will be many more years before a Honda or Toyota can claim that they have run reliably for 20years in India. And this comes from experience - our M800 bought new in '85 was used by us for 19years and till the time we sold it, it not only was reliable, but was being used by me for 800km Chennai-Kerala runs after just a cursory inspection of fluid levels. So, please spare us "Indians" from being enlightened about long-term reliability.

BTW, it is funny that the Etios which seems to have a range of issues in the initial few months of ownership is to teach Indians about long-term reliability.

Thank you @supremeBaleno from saving us from the patronizing we "Indians" have to receive at times. It seems that Japanese cars (read Honda/Toyota) enjoy a brand image which borders on monstrous proportions (is it because of the overpriced stuff they have been dishing out for some time?), but our Marutis/Tatas will not get as many points if they do something right or will get lots of points deducted if they don't get something right. Indicas and M8000 must really have done 1L+ on their Odos with minimal cost of ownership and that in my view stands for reliability.

[amalji]

I got my etios diesel. After 2 days of driving, absolutely love it. I'll reply to all of you once I settle down a bit.

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by wickedchauhan

Thank you @supremeBaleno from saving us from the patronizing we "Indians" have to receive at times. It seems that Japanese cars (read Honda/Toyota) enjoy a brand image which borders on monstrous proportions (is it because of the overpriced stuff they have been dishing out for some time?), but our Marutis/Tatas will not get as many points if they do something right or will get lots of points deducted if they don't get something right. Indicas and M8000 must really have done 1L+ on their Odos with minimal cost of ownership and that in my view stands for reliability.

Agreed Honda and Toyota do charge a premium for their products. But tell me, which ownership thread of either Honda or Toyota at least on Team-bhp have exorbitant ownership costs? I am lost for words.

OT: Though thought it might be relevant to the rant about premium thing about Honda and Toyota.

Instance one: Dont you think Swift is charging premium for what it is offerring. Look at LDi and VDi or LXi and VXi. Nothing special features in it but still the price is more what should have been. The less said the better about the ZDi at least in Bangalore.

Instance two: Dont you think the price being charged for Alto is high for a 10 year old platform.

Consider only these 2 mass sellers and then probably we can put Maruti also under the category of premium charges.

30K kms service for swift was quoted 18,000 buck. It is cheap, a blind faith in Maruti.

The rest of the discussion we shall open a Maruti Vs Honda/Toyota Thread to bash each other.

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Instance two: Dont you think the price being charged for Alto is high for a 10 year old platform.

Consider only these 2 mass sellers and then probably we can put Maruti also under the category of premium charges.

30K kms service for swift was quoted 18,000 buck. It is cheap, a blind faith in Maruti.

The rest of the discussion we shall open a Maruti Vs Honda/Toyota Thread to bash each other.

OT:
I don't think the price band is based on the age of the product. It is purely based on the demand of the product. Have we seen any drop in demand for Alto since its release? I don't think so. People believe in reliability of the product than their service bills. But now we may see a drop in price of Alto due to Eon. Same is applicable for Swift even after 6 years since its launch, people are willing to wait for 9 months despite the premium. May be its a blind faith but each customer have their own requirement.

Another example is the price of Honda City. As soon as some one gave them a stiff competition the prices came down.

[drmohitg]

Guys lets try and keep the discussion to the Etios/Liva ONLY. This comparing different brands doesn't do anything for this thread and it becomes way too chaotic. We all love certain cars and brands more then others based on our ownership experiences or our perceptions. And all of us are entitled to that. So lets refrain from comparing brands and trying to declare a winner out of nothing. If Maruti was good from all angles then no one would have bought any other car right? Same goes for the Toyota too. Each of us wants different things from our cars.

So please stick to Etios/Liva.

[streetsdisciple]

As a potential etios diesel customer this thread has really confused me.
Can the etios owners help me with understanding the REAL pros and cons of this car ?

Originally Posted by amalji

I got my etios diesel. After 2 days of driving, absolutely love it. I'll reply to all of you once I settle down a bit.

Really looking forward to it!

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by amalji

I got my etios diesel. After 2 days of driving, absolutely love it. I'll reply to all of you once I settle down a bit.

Congratulations! Looking forward to hearing from you!

Originally Posted by streetsdisciple

As a potential etios diesel customer this thread has really confused me.
Can the etios owners help me with understanding the REAL pros and cons of this car ?

Your best bet would be to go through the official test drive and review (most unbiased and as detailed as they come) and the ownership report threads on T-bhp for detailed ownership experiences (including that of mine).

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Just see the post I quoted from a member who posted after you. Thats the reason I took so much pain to try and find out if toyota really gave us such a inferior product. Why I cannot digest it? Because till date I have had an amazing experience owning a toyota.

so you are basically saying that whatever experience you have had with a brand, is what others should be having. If they do not say they had the same experience as you, its factless lying?
Remember, even the cars known worldwide for their poor quality had some specimens which worked perfectly. In such a case, their owners should think everyone else is lying.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

so you are basically saying that whatever experience you have had with a brand, is what others should be having. If they do not say they had the same experience as you, its factless lying?
Remember, even the cars known worldwide for their poor quality had some specimens which worked perfectly. In such a case, their owners should think everyone else is lying.

No I am not saying that everyone is lying. But I am saying that I will give credibility to whats written and reported on this forum and not elsewhere. Munish for instance finally posted pictures of his car with the missing gaskets and the associated problem and I was the first one to acknowledge his problem and thank him for sharing it ( a couple of pages back).
I have never meant to say that this car is the best. Infact I have always maintained that both honda and Toyota for that matter have been milking Indians. Honda finally reduced its prices and with the ever increasing number of cars to choose from its not very far when Toyota will be forced to do the same too. Problems in the Etios/Liva like higher NVH levels, low FE exist. Although many people are reporting that FE increases after the running in period. Still these problems are there. But then in view of these problems still to label it as a disaster ( as done on the sites outside) and carry the same impression on this thread is not the best thing to do.

But having said that I am still going to repeat myself that I am not going to believe in the problems reported on some vague site elsewhere whose credibility is unknown. And you know how tricky things can get in the virtual world right.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by streetsdisciple

As a potential etios diesel customer this thread has really confused me.
Can the etios owners help me with understanding the REAL pros and cons of this car ?

If I were you, I'd do the following:
1. Go through GTO's review thread
2. Go through the ownership threads of Etios and Liva (both share a lot of common aspects)
3. Go in detail through this thread - look for posts of owners and not 3rd party opinions - note the issues
4. Do a detailed TD (multiple times - different cars/dealers) - try to check out if the issues exist
5. Do a TD of your next top pick immediately to get a comparison. (optional)

Hope this helps.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

I have my experiences of the brake problems and I have disussed and verified with other ETIOS drivers.
.

I know atleast 10 etios owners inside and outside this forum. Everyone of them is happy with the braking. I'm a bit curious as to how even the best features of this vehicle go wrong for your specific vehicle. I remember seeing 'poor pick up' in one of your initial reviews. That's a very strange observation. Because the pick up which is determined by the torque of a vehicle is miles ahead of the competition in etios.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

By saying and agreeing that Toyota ETIOS has higher NVH which means Toyota ETIOS has higher Noise, Vibration and Harshness, then what is the difference in Toyota Car and Tata Truck.

Don't want to waste my time and energy for answering such silly comparisons.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

Actually my 11 years old wagon R is very much silent as compared to latest technology of Toyota ETIOS.

Again, wrong comparison. My zen had a quiter engine than my esteem or my friend's Baleno. But, that in no way means that zen is a better vehicle than baleno or esteem. I would rather put the blame on the buyer here for not observing what is most important for him during the test drive or atleast while reading the reviews of this car. Every review I've read mentioned about the higher nvh on this vehicle. If that was the most important factor for you, you should have gone for another car.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

Please go and check Innova or any small car from any manufacturer for the weather gaskets.IT IS PRESENT IN ALL CARS EVEN NANO, MARUTI 800.

And it's present in the etios too. Open your door, use a good pair of glasses and stare at the door trims. I'm sure, you will find it. Please do not post incorrect information and mislead the members in team-bhp.

Similar designs are done for verito, palio, punto, ikon. this is based on inputs from my friends. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

I respect your individuality and expect the same in return. I would request you to refrain from using non respectful language.
I am here only to discuss the problems being faced as an ETIOS owner. I do not have anything personal with you.
I am here for a purpose to voice my issues. If you have any ETIOS issue join my voice or else you can voice your concerns without passing remarks on me.
Let me again reiterate that I have spent my hard earned money for buying this Toyota ETIOS and I have all the right to share my experiences.

of course you have the right to post your views. But, at the same time, if I feel that you are bashing a brand for the wrong reasons, I'll post my views on it as well.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

today the customers are not together , but the day all join together Toyota will be in big deep trouble.

in fact, I find the opposite true. For instance, Every single owner of the etios on team-bhp except one is happy with this vehicle. Myself, being an owner of the etios vd ( for 1 week ) is extremely happy with this practically designed sedan. I feel lucky that I stuck with my decision to buy the etios, inspite of this thread. We are lucky to have honest reviewers like @GTO, and @vid on team-bhp. It makes the decision making process very much easier.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

I can really feel the urge from two fellow members to close this discussion, but is this for the benefit of Toyota? I would like to ask amalji and drmohitg.

Did you read my feedback on one of the members to close this discussion. If not, please read it before making such silly allegations.

I'm an automobile enthusiast. I'll react if I feel that baseless allegations are framed against a great product. We both can agree to disagree here.

[vishnugs]

Originally Posted by amalji

I know atleast 10 etios owners inside and outside this forum. Everyone of them is happy with the braking. I'm a bit curious as to how even the best features of this vehicle go wrong for your specific vehicle. I remember seeing 'poor pick up' in one of your initial reviews. That's a very strange observation. Because the pick up which is determined by the torque of a vehicle is miles ahead of the competition in etios.

Don't want to waste my time and energy for answering such silly comparisons.

Again, wrong comparison. My zen had a quiter engine than my esteem or my friend's Baleno. But, that in no way means that zen is a better vehicle than baleno or esteem. I would rather put the blame on the buyer here for not observing what is most important for him during the test drive or atleast while reading the reviews of this car. Every review I've read mentioned about the higher nvh on this vehicle. If that was the most important factor for you, you should have gone for another car.

And it's present in the etios too. Open your door, use a good pair of glasses and stare at the door trims. I'm sure, you will find it. Please do not post incorrect information and mislead the members in team-bhp.

Similar designs are done for verito, palio, punto, ikon. this is based on inputs from my friends. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

of course you have the right to post your views. But, at the same time, if I feel that you are bashing a brand for the wrong reasons, I'll post my views on it as well.

in fact, I find the opposite true. For instance, Every single owner of the etios on team-bhp except one is happy with this vehicle. Myself, being an owner of the etios vd ( for 1 week ) is extremely happy with this practically designed sedan. I feel lucky that I stuck with my decision to buy the etios, inspite of this thread. We are lucky to have honest reviewers like @GTO, and @vid on team-bhp. It makes the decision making process very much easier.

Did you read my feedback on one of the members to close this discussion. If not, please read it before making such silly allegations.

I'm an automobile enthusiast. I'll react if I feel that baseless allegations are framed against a great product. We both can agree to disagree here.

+1. Most of the Etios owners including me are very satisfied with the product that was delivered. I still cherish the drives in Etios though I own bigger cars. Infact one would only see very few users who report issues they have faced, the remaining others who are happy and satisfied with the package may not advertise it every now and then. I don't really understand why some are taking it as a personal grudge against Toyota as they did not like the package. Toyota s goal is clearly not to impress enthusiasts and has not been known as a brand which built adorably beautiful cars but known for hassle free ownership for years together, so lets observe the fact before setting very high expectations on Etios.