[mayank10]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Indeed, as many owners in the US are discovering at their peril. But wait, that is if they survive the crash. And to make the cars last even more, team-Toyota is working overtime to recall cars by the thousands to fix various issues.

Man, you are taking this discussion to a whole new level, seems that you have opened a google page with ' toyota recalls' alongwith this thread
At times you sound like a lawyer trying to win the case at any point.

Meanwhile, i do respect some of the concerns raised by few owners(2-3), however, i would say that the issues have been exaggerated by a huge huge margin.
No car is perfect, be it Etios or Liva or Jazz or Swift or Santro or Alto etc. etc. and when we search Team BHP forums, we would find owners of all these cars mentioning about some limitations present in the cars. This does not necessarily mean that the cars are bad. Indian car market is huge and all the brands are coexisting with different customers buying different cars due to their own priorities.

And last but not the least, we are talking about Toyota Etios, which means we are talking about:

Sub-Compact Sedan of the year- NDTV Car & Bike Awards 2011
Car of the year – Over Drive CNBC TV 18 Awards 2011
Mid Size Car of the year - Over Drive CNBC TV 18 Awards 2011
Saloon car of the year 2011- Bloomberg UTV Auto Car Award 2011

Well, i can google as well!

Well, i do not work for Toyota, and despite the fact i own a Liva, i do humbly accept its (Etios/ Liva) limitations. In-fact, i do it with a big smile!

The right thing would be to filter genuine concerns from the thousands raised by Munish (Well, after seeing his site and concerns raised, frankly i do not trust 99% of them, even after seeing the pics). May be, a couple of concerns are genuine and should be dealt with, but lets not fight over it!

I come in peace!

[supremeBaleno]

^^^
No need to google recalls - they come in the papers and are on the forum itself. Also no one said the Etios is a bad car either in isolation or in comparison with something else. The concern was about diluting issues expressed by some people about the car either by sarcasm or ridicule. And we are not even talking of munish's website - I have not referred to a single case from that site.

Eg there are 2 people who posted about water seepage in the cars they were in, but that is ruled out because they dont own the car.

A clutch failure in initial ownership and that is because he rode the clutch.

[amalji]

@supremebaleno - Shall I quote each and every issue on the Swift on this forum? It doesn't make sense. Each car has its own pros and cons. I don't have an issue if Maruti vehicles rattles. But, I have an issue when Maruti doesn't give priority for space and/or braking because I consider that as fundamentals of a car unless you are going to use the car only for commuting short and lean people at low speeds. It's a pity that such a great engine is coupled with one of the worst brakes in the segment.

I had to compromise on the fundamentals till now, because the competition never offered the quality of after sales support that Maruti offers. But, when Toyota entered the segment, the scenario changed. I get the space of the Tata and the niggle free experience of the Maruti ( from feedback I got from Toyota owners, it seems to be even better than the Maruti. But, I'll have to wait and analyze on it ). What you lose is the "show off" factor aka bad looking interiors. But, I'm completely ok with it and hence Toyota Etios becomes a good buy for me.

On a different note, I also wanted to apologize for any personal remarks made towards you. It was done in the heat of the moment. I respect your opinion as I respect others'

[mayank10]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

^^^
No need to google recalls - they come in the papers and are on the forum itself. Also no one said the Etios is a bad car either in isolation or in comparison with something else. The concern was about diluting issues expressed by some people about the car either by sarcasm or ridicule. And we are not even talking of munish's website - I have not referred to a single case from that site.

Eg there are 2 people who posted about water seepage in the cars they were in, but that is ruled out because they dont own the car.

A clutch failure in initial ownership and that is because he rode the clutch.

Regarding the water seepage issue: since i have experienced it personally, i would like to highlight it again
Water never seeps in the cabin, NEVER, no matter even if the car is parked during very very heavy rains of Kerala (Mine is parked in an open space without a car cover at times) If one sees some water, it may be within the area before the trims on the body start. Water can't go inside, if doors are closed properly, and no aftermarket fittings have affected the settings.

Same is the case with dust. And meanwhile, what was the deal with cockroaches, rats, etc. Are you kidding me!

Clutch failures etc. are genuine issues and must be brought to notice. However, it may be an isolated case, and the car does not become bad due to such isolated issues. I believe Toyota service will live up to the expectations.

[drmohitg]

@supremebaleno: Dude please refrain from using that you all ganging up against a poor soul comment. I am not trying to prove anything to anyone here and neither do I need to. The only reason why I started objecting to Munish's post were because of the amount of exaggeration that was evident in it. And you are wise enough to see that too. Apart from that none of us has told anyother member ( owner or not owner) to not report any issue or otherwise.
This thread is not going to go anywhere. The original topic under discussion has lost all its relevence and the last whole page was just wasted in mud-slinging.
Please guys request both you and Amalji and everyone else to keep the discussion only on the Etios.

I would again like to stress that there is no fan boys vs critics war going on here. So please lets refrain from indulging into it.

Regards,
Mohit

Peace.

[andromeda]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

.
Indeed, as many owners in the US are discovering at their peril. But wait, that is if they survive the crash. And to make the cars last even more, team-Toyota is working overtime to recall cars by the thousands to fix various issues.

Have already gone through 2 of them for my Sequoia and keep my eyes open for anything that's coming up. 2003 Toyota Sequoia Recalls | Automotive.com. Again I have not faced any issue with this gas guzzling beast so far, but all these recalls are just not confidence inspiring.

Interesting to see people defending Toyota to the hilt, just because they own it !! Please guys, all cars will have issues so let's not go overboard with not acknowledging the genuine ones. We are a mature forum manufacturers look into and respond (Ex:- The thread that gave some very good insights into Tata's QC practices that lead to niggles/reliability issues in their products http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-motors-4.html) . We do not have an NHTSA in India to force the manufacturers to issue recalls or fix defects by themselves. Hence we are left to fend on our own (through forums like T-BHP) to get their attention.

FYI, I own Etios P as well which clocked 7K recently. Here's my take on it. No issues with mileage, reliability, vibration, handling, etc. (so am not writing about it).

Had reported in one of the earlier posts on this thread about the surprises I found with the Etios. Among them the rear seat assembly is something which is unique (sorry, can't think of another word). You have to take out the rear bench and check it out yourself to believe how UNSAFE it is (have given the detailed steps in my earlier post).

The car color is Vermillion Red and I second Mr. Munish's point w.r.t the missing rubber lining on the doors. As seen in the pictures he posted, the dirt(if not cleaned)/dust(if cleaned) easily accumulates on the portion surrounding the body rubber lining even when the doors are closed. Now, this area can ONLY be accessed/cleaned by opening the doors !!
Possibly the dirt/dust stands out in RED colored cars.

If anyone wants to check out, give your car a wash and open the doors. You will find the soap/water surround the body rubber lining. This is NOT a water-seepage issue, but brazen cost cutting done by skipping the door rubber linings. Have not encountered anything like this in the other cars I have/had. Would like to get the missing door rubber linings added on, if they are available elsewhere.

[Munish myetios]

Originally Posted by amalji

Spot on. Had toyota concentrated a bit more on the aesthetics, and final finish, this car would have killed the competition. Because, fundamentally the car is very strong. I heard rumors from the staff in toyota service that they are working on this part as well. Maybe, toyota will boost up the interiors by the time engine manufacturing starts from India.

Fundamentally ETIOS is a copied design from Mahindra Logan and the Toyota Engineers missed to copy the weather gaskets and resulted in ETIOS. Higher NVH is a great deterrent for EIOS to be called as a car. It lacks the basics that a car has.
These weather gaskets definitely play more role than water seepage and dust prevention, I am confident that it also prevents the noise from the road and engine inside the passenger cabin.

[Honda Monk]

There are cars which turn out to be bad pony for a company.
In pursuit to capture market shares Toyota forgot to keep its (reliability promise) and thought whatever junk it will sell with (T) badge will sell.
NANO atleast justifies its price.
How true it seems looking at the issues...."India First" for such a pathetic product.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by Honda Monk

There are cars which turn out to be bad pony for a company.
In pursuit to capture market shares Toyota forgot to keep its (reliability) promise and thought whatever junk it will sell with (T) badge will sell.
NANO atleast justifies its price.
How true it seems looking at the issues...."India First" for such a pathetic product.

I think that's a little harsh, Sir.

Toyota's Liva is actually a good car. Both the Etios and Liva, in fact. What makes them good cars? They have strong cores. Strong internals. A good engine, a sorted chassis, a competent 'box and a responsive steering is what makes a car good, IMO. And the Toyota has all these qualities.

Yes, they could have done a better job, by finishing the product. I'm not asking for garnish here. Just the basic key elements that make a good car great.

Just look at the number of Etios and Livas on the road, and compare them to the number of Jazz and Citys. Yes, the Hondas don't have diesel powerplants yet, and that's what's helping the Etios and Liva roll in the numbers for Toyota. But even the petrol variants seem to be well received.

Oh, and I'm a big Honda fan. We have two Hondas at home, and a third one is expected soon.

[esteem_lover]

amalji and SB, you should have had enough by now. This is not what this thread was meant to be, a Maruti Vs Toyota big bash. Please get off your horses and shake hands. A Maruti is a Maruti and a Toyota is a Toyota, both have great value in India. There are enough threads about Maruti's deficiencies too, this one is for Toyota, why start a fight here. Both your claims are ludicrous to say the least. One is crazy about Maruti and the other about Toyota. These are individual preferences and should be treated only as such. Let us discuss the Etios/Liva's bad points here and let us not get into a fight over which manufacturer is better, all want to make a quick buck.

On a lighter note, it is nice to know that FIAT has been left in the cold for a while for these kind of fights, that could mean they are doing well, that is what is nice.

[amalji]

@esteem_lover @drmohitg - I'm sorry for involving myself in such a fight. I understand its not healthy.

[condor]

Originally Posted by mayank10

And last but not the least, we are talking about Toyota Etios, which means we are talking about:

Sub-Compact Sedan of the year- NDTV Car & Bike Awards 2011
Car of the year – Over Drive CNBC TV 18 Awards 2011
Mid Size Car of the year - Over Drive CNBC TV 18 Awards 2011
Saloon car of the year 2011- Bloomberg UTV Auto Car Award 2011

Let's leave these aside. For most part, the ratings & the awards created by the media, and we know how knowledge-able even auto-journo's are.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2523787

Pls dont read too much into these awards, or even with JD Power surveys results. (Read related threads here on TBHP).

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

amalji and SB, you should have had enough by now. This is not what this thread was meant to be, a Maruti Vs Toyota big bash. Please get off your horses and shake hands.

On a lighter note, it is nice to know that FIAT has been left in the cold for a while for these kind of fights...

. Thanks, John. Hopefully the discussions will now return to the original topic of the Etios.

[andromeda]

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

Fundamentally ETIOS is a copied design from Mahindra Logan and the Toyota Engineers missed to copy the weather gaskets and resulted in ETIOS. Higher NVH is a great deterrent for EIOS to be called as a car. It lacks the basics that a car has.
These weather gaskets definitely play more role than water seepage and dust prevention, I am confident that it also prevents the noise from the road and engine inside the passenger cabin.

No offense here, but just my take..
You have been shouting at the 'top of your voice' about the issues (proven/genuine or otherwise) that you are facing with the Etios. You've also tried various avenues like dealers/website/?orums to get your issues noticed. But has it helped ?


If not, then there's no point trying to defame the manufacturer since that will NEVER get your issues fixed. There are loads of threads right here on TBHP of various customer firefighting with their dealers/manufacturers (Aria, Skoda, Fiat, etc...). Let's face it, any manufacturers cares a damn about his/her 'existing' customers (it's like how HR treat you after you're staff). In fact T is planning an SUV based on the Etios (as per another thread).

You have 2 options, become a DIY guy and work on getting these fixed (you might end up spending 10% of the 8+L you paid for the car) OR sell the car (in this market !!) & write down losses (definitely > 30%).

If you decide on the former, let's please use this thread on trying to technically/practically address these issues. There are owners (RadiantKarma, amalji, etc...) who own the Etios/Liva and might not have faced these issues. We'll be more than happy to help you out with specific issues (loyalties strictly set aside !!). Do remember we are an enthusiasts forum where the general public (non-members/folks who don't know OR want to know nitty-gritty details) search/look for before deciding on their next car. So please lets use this thread some kinda ready reckoner for others.

Rest my case here !

[KPS]

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

Fundamentally ETIOS is a copied design from Mahindra Logan

No Munish, if you observe carefully in Logan the door curves over the body. Hence the gap between the door and body is not open to natures elements

Whilst in Etios it is the normal design followed in most cars but without the weather gaskets

Cheers

KPS

[heman_369]

I own an Etios (p) which has now run 11k kms. Etios has cost cutting evident in many places like interiors, door gaskets, bootlid. But the fundamentals are very strong the engine, transmission, suspension etc are absoultely best in class. The Etios (P) with its effortless drivablility and decent mileage surprises me on my every drive. My 10K service cost with free labopur was 1100 which i think is extremely low and lessens my ownership costs. I have never faced any water seepage issues so far. No rattles whatsoever. Just like Munish, my car is red and the dust that gathers inside the door panels is very much true and irritating. But i dont think this is a dealbraker for me as you can just open the doors and clean the panels. Dust or water never reaches the cabin. NVH levels have pretty much within the acceptable levels after 3k kms. Stock goodyears are a big contributor to the road noise i believe.

To summarise, IMHO Etios is a car with best in class fundamentals and space, spartan interiors and some cost cutting. My overall ownership has been very satisfying as I enjoy every moment of my Drive. Heck we 'Live to Drive' aint we?