[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by MAS

Lalvaz. People in Bangladesh area always skeptical about products from India. Not only cars, they also do not like to buys chemicals and textiles from India. I was in Saudi Arabia two months back and one of the cab drivers was in all-praise of TATA vehicles. Strangely, i did not spot any TATA car during my two week stinct, but just saw a few TATA buses in not-so-good condition.

Not true at all, there are a lot of Indian products which are very well accepted in Bangladesh. Bajaj bikes, autos, lays wafers, indian pharmaceuticals etc... are all very well accepted here. Even Apollo Hositals is here and its considered the best hospital in Bangladesh.

Cant answer about saudi arabia, since I dont know about that firsthand.

[deepclutch]

I Think:
the perception of Indian Cars are generally limited to Maruti800,Alto and or Tata Indica/Indigos in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka which are similar Markets. may be, It is not limited to aforementioned two countries. many car owners in these countries expect cars to last for more than 5 years as it was when brand new.

Japanese Cars are seen as reliable, tough cars. well, it cannot be denied? Toyotas are regarded as the Robust,long lasting brand. even Pakistan has Toyotas as the common Cars after Suzukis.

They expect the Steel Quality to be Long standing without rusting especially underbody of the Cars(even without regular,expensive undercoating). next, the build quality of Japanese cars imported directly from Japan are compared with same cars made in India.
for example, I came to know Swift is available in Sri Lanka Market both Indian and Japanese models.
This is where, some observes the precision machining of Original Japanese Fare much better.
So, YES! Indian made cars irrespective of the brands are considered a little inferior and sometimes unreliable by Our Neighbours.

[suhaas307]

This is a brilliant way of getting back at the producer of the commodity.

Put up a negative advert of it in the Daily! What a novel idea!

Not only will he get publicity for this, Toyota might just pull up their socks and actually react to this, by fixing the problem. And if they can't fix it, it would at least deter prospective customers from buying the flawed product.

And all this happening when discounts and price-cuts are happening all over the place!

I wonder what's happening to this World?! It's all topsy-turvy, all of a sudden! The Jazz is now affordable and Toyotas are suddenly unreliable!

[cpbopanna]

Originally Posted by shortbread

LOL.....

Thats the smartest bit of consumer revenge I have seen!!

Will have to wait and watch whether Etios/Liva's water proofing problems begin to affect Toyota's reputation for 'bullet proof' reliability !!

I guess 'bullet proof' but not 'water proof'

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by DWind

I have the same observation in Sri Lanka as well. I am told that whole of country worships Japanese made cars especially Toyota. It is not difficult to find more 15 year old Toyota's running around commanding a huge resale value there. All this when they have several manufacturers in India.

Thanks for that perspective on Sri Lanka, DWind, makes you think about what a huge opportunity for Indian automobile manufacturers is being lost due to the poor quality (real or perceived). Its strange that we have such a huge manufacturing base, and we talk abt exporting our cars to Europe etc... but we're not able to make a dent in the markets in our own subcontinent. Thank God, Bajaj is doing well in Bangladesh, are they present in Sri Lanka as well?

[DWind]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Thanks for that perspective on Sri Lanka, DWind, makes you think about what a huge opportunity for Indian automobile manufacturers is being lost due to the poor quality (real or perceived). Its strange that we have such a huge manufacturing base, and we talk abt exporting our cars to Europe etc... but we're not able to make a dent in the markets in our own subcontinent. Thank God, Bajaj is doing well in Bangladesh, are they present in Sri Lanka as well?

yes they are. They are there along with TVS in a big way in 2 and three wheeler. Also Ashok Leyland (as Lanka Ashok Leyland) is near monopoly in buses. It is in the van and cars where India has lost out big time. The vans are mostly Highace and Townace from Toyota. And cars are Japanese mostly even though a few Indian Maruti's exist. My contact drives a Toyota Cresta Diesel automatic which is more than 15 years old. He says that he bought it for 22 LKR and now if he sells it will fetch 24 lakh LKR. Such is the demand for Japanese cars there with economy doing its bit as well.

[andromeda]

Originally Posted by mohan41

Does this issue of water leaking exist in all the Etios, or specific to some batch? Etios owners on Tbhp, can you please share your experience? The problem should be easily noticed by anyone by now, if it exists in his/her car.

It is shocking if this was a design fault. Cost cutting should not break essential functionality. I hope Toyota has not taken cost cutting that far.

Have been hooked onto Team BHP since an year now and became a member a couple of months ago. Finally I made up my mind to participate actively.

After reading GTO's awesome review, I had booked the Etios in December 2010 and got the delivery in April 2011.

My main reasons for me buying an Etios were

1. DEFINITELY needed a car with a proper boot (since I own a Civic & Sequoia back in the US and am used to carrying lots of baggage on long drives). Use my Sequoia pretty extensively to move around the east coast and am impressed with it's rock solid reliability (inspite of it being a gas guzzling white elephant & all the recalls).
2. Whatever be the car I end up buying, I just was not ready to pay double or near-double the cost (in US) of the same vehicle. For example, Civic retails for $16000+ in the US, but almost double here in India (for various reasons, which can be a different topic altogether). That pretty much narrowed down the options to 6-9L range.
3. Needed the car pretty much only for weekends & long drives. That pretty much ruled out Diesel and put reliability as one of the top things to look for.
4. The only competitors in that range (at the time I booked Etios) were Manza (a fantastic vehicle but the petrol was seriously underpowered and not to forget the Tata *** I had read about), Accent (Poor mileage and a model on life-support) and Dzire (Did not even test drive one due to purely personal reasons)
5. Liked the power/rear legroom/boot space/chassis of the Etios and was not unhappy with the all-plastic interiors. In fact the absence of cloth in the door interiors was better for me, since it was easier to take care (maintenance-free) when my kid spilled juice/coke/anything else.


Points noted after purchase.

1. The car is very practical as I had expected. It might not be top of the line with all the gizmos, soft plastic, etc. But it does the job of comfortably transporting 5 persons + their baggage from point A to point B without any hassles.
2. The power is good enough even with the car fully loaded with passengers & baggage.
3. I must admit that the chassis & the suspension are pretty good. I've taken the car on pretty much non-existing roads (sand, gravel, ghat sections filled with only potholes, even in the muck when it was raining) and there were just no issues. The GC is fantastic compared to Honda.
4. The mileage I'm getting is 15+ kmpl on the highway (with A/C on). Believe this is OK considering that the mileage claimed officially is 17+ kmpl.


Negatives/Concerns

The poor noise insulation was definitely an issue when the car was new. But after 2000 kms, I've noticed it to subside significantly. Now my ODO reads 3500 kms. I do not think it's become as quiet as my Sequoia (but it's definitely improved). Btw, the car still has the same Goodyear tire it came with and I have NOT got the 3M underchassis treatment done.

1. Last week, I got the seat covers installed in one of the shops in J.C Road.
Until then, I did not have any other concerns.

A couple of days after the seat cover installation, I noticed one end of the rear seat was swaying from its position. On close observation, I could find a plastic lock piece below that end of the seat. This was definitely a piece broken from somewhere. Next I had no other choice but to remove the rear seat and check out where it was broken from. Finally I figured it out and was able to remove the seat (by unlatching the other end). To remove the rear seat, press the latch from below the seat on either side (first remove that part of the carpet and you'll find the access points from where the latch is accessible)

Then comes the surprise. The rear seat (not the back rest) of the Etios is just cushion to which 2 plastic lock/latches are glued at the bottom. The seat is put into its position by ONLY these two locks. There are no other metal screws, etc which hold the seat (except for a hook, which is not foolproof). That's very strange and definitely a cost cutting measure.

Fortunately I had the broken piece and hence have glued it back to the seat using Araldite. Still waiting for it to dry completely before putting the seat back into the car. Hopefully it'll be fine.


2. Yesterday I opened the boot for cleaning and found a surprise visitor in there - a small Mr. Jerry !!! Now this was definitely not funny. I never leave the car/boot doors open and park the car in the open. This pretty much means that Mr. Jerry must have got in through the under-body and into the cabin

Had to take out literally everything (dash board contents, boot mats, rear seat was anyways out) out of the car and make dessert arrangements ((Mortein Rat cakes) for Mr. Jerry.. Just hoping that Mr.Jerry would relish the dessert offered for his main course (instead of any electrical stuff in there). Need to wait keeping my fingers crossed till I start smelling the dead rat perfume. :-(

I definitely do not want to be responsible for Mr.Jerry's homicide, but I just do not have any other option. If anyone can help me out here, I'll be very grateful.

3. As pointed out earlier, I park the car out in the open (on the road) everyday. It's been raining like crazy in Bangalore off-late and my car gets cleaned multiple times pretty much everyday. Sometimes when it's raining, I do put soap on the car and wipe it clean (holding an umbrella !).
This save precious water which is very scarce in Bangalore. I have not seen any water seepage/leaks inside the car (doors, roofs, etc) till date.

[sydras]

I cannot understand why there is so much demand for a car where cost cutting has taken place and is so evident i.e. the Etios and for that matter, even the Nano. At least, in case of the nano, one can possibly argue that people going for it are on a very tight budget. But in case of the Etios, could they not find a better car in a similar price range to park their lakhs of rupees in?

Also, what do these people do during the test drive? Are they oblivious to the car's interiors or are they mostly first time buyers? Have they not checked out the competition? The Swift Desire is a better car than the Etios and it's Maruti so availability of maintenance and potentially cost would not a problem. Why still go for a cut down Toyota? Is the brand value that significant? I don't get it.

Personally, I find the exteriors of all Toyota's cars in India very uninspiring (and I only like the interiors of the Innova). Until the new Corolla Altis, not one of their cars was a looker. Compare that to Honda where every single one of their recent cars has been a head turner. I know that looks are subjective but I can't find a single reason to opt for an Etios or maybe I am missing something here.

[poloman]

The affinity of indian public to 'badi gaadi' read 'car with a boot' is the culprit here. Very few people make informed choices out there. A sedan from their dream brand Toyota for around 5-6 lakhs drove general public in to buying this ill conceived model in large numbers. Any one who sit in this car will instantly be engulfed by sheer cheapness all around.All these made for India cars are nothing but an insult to Indian aspirations.

[snaronikar]

All toyota cars has the same problem in the beginning when they are launched..they had the same problem in qualis also.They corrected the same afterwards when customer complaints began...

[GTO]

Gotta give it to this dude for getting attention (and getting back) in an innovative manner. Smart thinking, impossible to ignore by any manufacturer, and I do hope his problems are solved by Toyota sooner rather than later.

Surprised to hear of the water leakage problem in particular. The NVH, well, it has been reported as being high from day one (in our review too). The poor insulation & lack of wheel cladding are primary reasons.

Cost cutting is one thing, but people won't accept a Toyota with niggles. They better realise that.

[DieselAddikt]

It is comparatively easy to get the quality right on a 10L (read Innova) car than in a 6L (Etios) car. It is clear that Toyota did not get it right the first time. The complaints of high cabin noise and other visible cost cutting measures just points to it. One drive and you will know that it is not a Toyota that we used to see and feel. What remains to be seen is how they take it up from here and fix them. Being Toyota, i don't think they will sit back and read all this. They would already have started taking things seriously.

At this point of time, we have to admit that manufactures like Maruti and Hyundai have already found the right balance between cost and quality. Kudos to them !!

[Raosaheb Desai]

Originally Posted by shortbread

LOL.....

Thats the smartest bit of consumer revenge I have seen!!

Will have to wait and watch whether Etios/Liva's water proofing problems begin to affect Toyota's reputation for 'bullet proof' reliability !!

Agreed,
Till now we said Bullet Proof, now they should make an effort to make Toyota "Water proof".

[Upgrade]

Originally Posted by sydras

I cannot understand why there is so much demand for a car where cost cutting has taken place and is so evident i.e. the Etios and for that matter, even the Nano. At least, in case of the nano, one can possibly argue that people going for it are on a very tight budget. But in case of the Etios, could they not find a better car in a similar price range to park their lakhs of rupees in?

Also, what do these people do during the test drive? Are they oblivious to the car's interiors or are they mostly first time buyers? Have they not checked out the competition? The Swift Desire is a better car than the Etios and it's Maruti so availability of maintenance and potentially cost would not a problem. Why still go for a cut down Toyota? Is the brand value that significant? I don't get it.

Very valid questions! Since I bought Etios after test drive and now cribbing, I may be able to answer. In test drive, you won't know the FE. I assumed that I would get 12.5 considering my Santro was giving 13 (ARAI mileage is similar for both). But I get 10.5 in city. Rattling (I have) and seepage (I don't have) are things you won't know during test drive. Of course I didn't ask questions about number of remote lock keys (assumed it would be 2, but it is 1 only) and automatic central locking on move (my mistake).
The other point is, there are only 3 cars in that category - one is a TATA and the other has very less rear space and less impressive brake performance. Therefore fallen to the big "T" brand image.

[mooza]

Wonder whether the owner raised the level beyond the dealer and contacted the Toyota higher ups for a possible solution, or just preferred to do all his bashing upto the dealer level alone, since April 2011.

Hope this was just a lemon, and a rare one at that, from Toyota !