[amalji]

Originally Posted by clevermax

Luckily, there are very few people who think like this - just imagine what would have happened to the world if everyone decided to baseline and settle with one day's technology for the generations to come! In such a case, I would be typing this from my old 386 PC using Netscape navigator instead of Swyping it from my smartphone.

My friend, modern technology doesn't necessarily imply better product. comparing technology which is evolving every day like the smart phones and computers with automobile technology which has matured long back doesn't make any kind of sense. What matters is the result.

Originally Posted by clevermax

Jokes apart, Which all needs are fulfilled in a better way (apart from the boot space) when you compare Etios with the new Swift? Just asking because I am curious to know in what all aspects Etios really 'wow's one and in what all aspects new Swift needs improvement.

Space
Braking
Comfort
Boot space
Visibility
Ergonomics at driver seat and rear seat
Abs and airbags at affordable rates
Headroom
drivability thanks to the lower turbo lag
In case of petrol, power of one class above.

[motorworks]

At least from what I have heard / seen till date there seems to quite a high % of not-so-satisfied etios customers. I'm also saddened to see the frustration of some of these owners. I hope that Toyota reaches out to these people and help them resolve such issues rather than waiting for such customers to voice out their displeasure in public forums. Honestly, I give importance to function over design on any given day. And that is why I bought a dzire and was also keen to swap it with an affordable toyota after 3 years or so. I should say that I no longer feel that way, not because of these random issues, but when I saw the product and test drove it, I really felt that it was in no way a better than a dzire or even a manza. Actually I felt that it was a lot inferior to a logan in terms of over all quality / aesthetics / sturdiness.
No offence to any of the etios owners here, but it is just my initial reaction, I could be even wrong. But no one would want to take a chance with one's hard earned money. I would rather place my bets any day on a Maruti, which may not be the best, but does not let you down in most areas. You know what you are going to get with a maruti and there are no unpleasant surprises.

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by amalji

My friend, modern technology doesn't necessarily imply better product. comparing technology which is evolving every day like the smart phones and computers with automobile technology which has matured long back doesn't make any kind of sense. What matters is the result.

Hmm.. Smart & intelligent application of modern technology has to result in better products. There are differences in the way we use a 10 year old model of an automobile and a present day one. Once you get used to features like MID where one can see the fuel efficiency, DTE, smarter warning system, steering mounted controls and so on, there's no going back. Even features which are not so visible for instance - speed sensitive wipers, high speed warning system - would make more of your money worth paying.

Originally Posted by amalji

Space
Braking
Comfort
Boot space
Visibility
Ergonomics at driver seat and rear seat
Abs and airbags at affordable rates
Headroom
drivability thanks to the lower turbo lag
In case of petrol, power of one class above.

Thanks, but anyway we are comparing Q class with a Maruti hatchback.

Originally Posted by motorworks

At least from what I have heard / seen till date there seems to quite a high % of not-so-satisfied etios customers. I'm also saddened to see the frustration of some of these owners.

My uncle was so much into booking Etios but after he came to know that it is nothing but a decade old Echo (thanks to this thread), he changed his mind. To reinforce his decision, I made him read some of these reviews by not-so-happy Etios customers.

[90BHP]

Is it just me or are there just too many reports these days about bad quality cars, i am hearing it almost from all sides, toyota, maruti, hyundai, fiat, tata !!!

[amalji]

Originally Posted by clevermax

Hmm.. Smart & intelligent application of modern technology has to result in better products. There are differences in the way we use a 10 year old model of an automobile and a present day one. Once you get used to features like MID where one can see the fuel efficiency, DTE, smarter warning system, steering mounted controls and so on, there's no going back. Even features which are not so visible for instance - speed sensitive wipers, high speed warning system - would make more of your money worth paying.

The question we have to ask is why do you need a premium hatch or a sedan instead of cars in the class of Alto ( No offense meant to Alto owners. I love the Alto K10's refinement and power delivery. It's truely a small rocket ).

For me, the main factors are space, power, braking, comfort, visibility, handling.
The good, but not necessary factors include the list which you mentioned.

I can compromise on the "not necessary" list. But, I simply cannot compromise on the main factors. If I was 10 years younger and if I only use the car as a 2-seater, I would have gone for the Swift ZDi. But now, I have to be concerned about the functional side of the vehicle as well.

Originally Posted by clevermax

Thanks, but anyway we are comparing Q class with a Maruti hatchback.

I was comparing car to a car and a brand to a brand. Since, I couldn't get what I need in Maruti's Dzire, I thought about SX4 Diesel which gave me almost everything I needed. But, the one with ABS and Airbags was out of reach of my budget.Had Maruti given the ABS atleast as an option on their lower variants of SX4, I would have gone for that.

Originally Posted by clevermax

My uncle was so much into booking Etios but after he came to know that it is nothing but a decade old Echo (thanks to this thread), he changed his mind. To reinforce his decision, I made him read some of these reviews by not-so-happy Etios customers.

As I mentioned in one of my previous follow-ups, the problem with Etios has mostly to do with wrong expectations people put on this car for the reason that it's a car from Toyota. Etios is not a normal Toyota car. It's a built to cost car, but fundamentally and functionally much stronger than its competition - Swift/Dzire. People who evaluated pros and cons and then bought this car are mostly happy. People who just went by the name will never be happy.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

What is with weather gaskets. Member Amalji above clearly told and also the mods who covered the official TD review that the gaskets are present but not in there usual position. And there is no water seepage issues due to this. That only arises due to a shoddy after market work done on your car for speakers etc.

To further stress this, I met Maruti Service Masters' Autoteam Cochin Director - Rajan Varghese to discuss about this design. ( He is one of the few engineers in Cochin, who got direct training from Maruti in the 80s , and knows what he speaks )

He mentioned that it's quite common to have gaskets fitted on the inner door trim and that it's not at all a design flaw.

[lmilind]

Originally Posted by motorworks

At least from what I have heard / seen till date there seems to quite a high % of not-so-satisfied etios customers. I'm also saddened to see the frustration of some of these owners. I hope that Toyota reaches out to these people and help them resolve such issues rather than waiting for such customers to voice out their displeasure in public forums. Honestly, I give importance to function over design on any given day. And that is why I bought a dzire and was also keen to swap it with an affordable toyota after 3 years or so. I should say that I no longer feel that way, not because of these random issues, but when I saw the product and test drove it, I really felt that it was in no way a better than a dzire or even a manza. Actually I felt that it was a lot inferior to a logan in terms of over all quality / aesthetics / sturdiness.
No offence to any of the etios owners here, but it is just my initial reaction, I could be even wrong. But no one would want to take a chance with one's hard earned money. I would rather place my bets any day on a Maruti, which may not be the best, but does not let you down in most areas. You know what you are going to get with a maruti and there are no unpleasant surprises.

Before buying a Etios Petrol from first Lot, i got an Alto & Wagon R, which are still with me & also driven Dzire & Swift many many times. I have great regards for Maruti as trustworthy brand but believe me, on 3 Very important parameters of Space, Ride Quality & Driving Comfort ( Fun factor ), no Maruti Product except SX4 ( Dont know about Kizashi ) can no way come near to Etios. Its a Best Engine for City Traffic Driving, with minimum of gear changes required & Highways you will get the Feel Safe factor even driving at 120Km/Hr, which i had hardly felt with any of the Maruti Cars. There are down side also like the rear doors are getting jammed some times because of the Poor quality of rubber linings & i dont even feel proud for the interiors but all these things can be fixed by spending extra 25-30K but you cant add space to car or get such a wonderful Engine or suspension in after markets.

[JagMan]

Seeing all this im glad i put my foot down when dad started talking about booking an Etios when it was first launched. Now if only i could get him to actually pick up the Tata Manza :'( which has been my choice since its launched.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by JagMan

Seeing all this im glad i put my foot down when dad started talking about booking an Etios when it was first launched. Now if only i could get him to actually pick up the Tata Manza :'( which has been my choice since its launched.

In my case also, it was my father who forced me to look beyond Maruti and evaluate the Etios ( which was about to be launched then ). Initially, I was skeptical about the looks. But, after evaluating the car comprehensively, I'm glad I took his advice.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by lmilind

Before buying a Etios Petrol from first Lot, i got an Alto & Wagon R, which are still with me & also driven Dzire & Swift many many times. I have great regards for Maruti as trustworthy brand but believe me, on 3 Very important parameters of Space, Ride Quality & Driving Comfort ( Fun factor ), no Maruti Product except SX4 ( Dont know about Kizashi ) can no way come near to Etios. Its a Best Engine for City Traffic Driving, with minimum of gear changes required & Highways you will get the Feel Safe factor even driving at 120Km/Hr, which i had hardly felt with any of the Maruti Cars. There are down side also like the rear doors are getting jammed some times because of the Poor quality of rubber linings & i dont even feel proud for the interiors but all these things can be fixed by spending extra 25-30K but you cant add space to car or get such a wonderful Engine or suspension in after markets.

I agree that on the space factor marutis do not score as well as the others. But on the fun factor or driving pleasure, I would rate the swift just below the ford fiesta. Its zippy, and quite a joy to drive, especially the kseries petrol motor. The diesel has initial turbo lag like all MJDs, but post that it is a rocket. I have never felt uneasy even at 160kmph!
And yes you cannot add space to a car, but from an individual's point of view I feel that I can compromise on space a little bit but not on overall quality.

[A350XWB]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

Indian people have barely known the meaning of long-term reliability in this lower end segment. For them, Maruti has been the God in absence of anything better. Hondas and Toyotas will teach us the real meaning when the cars will continue to run damn well without fuss even after 3-4 lacs of kms on the odo. Worldwide Suzuki has always lagged way behind the Big Japs on long-term reliability front, and no reason why it would be different here.

Brother, you are totally mistaken here. Ask any manufacturer and they will tell you the opposite. This is the segment where the long term reliability matters the most. After the era of Ambys and Padminis, this segment has seen a leap in reliability. It does not take Hondas and Toyotas for common man to understand what is reliability. Look around and you will see umpteen number of Marutis, Hyundais and even the much bashed Tatas doing 1L+ Kms on the odo. Just remember that this segment also sees the most neglected cars with respect to preventive maintenance. So, even with the lack of proper maintenance, most of the modern cars excel.

I don't deny the fact that Hondas and Toyotas are reliable cars, but blind brand belief is not a good thing. How many recalls have these two companies made in the last two years? I don't want to go into the details of the recalls, but the defects in many cases were preventable in nature. Is this the reliability and quality you are talking about? Bad engine parts, bad brakes etc? Check for the thread on bad quality plastic in India on Honda city (The outside plastic cladding became whitish is some months in a batch of Honda Citys.) I hope this is the Q-class quality control of the Toyotas and Hondas. Before some Honda and Toyota fanboy jumps on me, my point is simple! All companies, irrespective of the brand, have had problems or will have problems. Only the scale differs.

As far as Etios is considered, I feel that it's a budget sedan which is priced higher than it's actually worth. As I wrote earlier, would you like to see the garish red garnish on the gear lever of your 8.5L car chip off with just a rub of your finger nail? (Have done it myself on the test drive car) My answer is no!

[amalji]

Originally Posted by A350XWB

As far as Etios is considered, I feel that it's a budget sedan which is priced higher than it's actually worth. As I wrote earlier, would you like to see the garish red garnish on the gear lever of your 8.5L car chip off with just a rub of your finger nail? (Have done it myself on the test drive car) My answer is no!

My answer is yes, since I prefer replacing my gear knob for Rs.300 to 800 than to replace my brakes for 20k and still having to pray to God that it doesn't fail when I need it the most.

Even though there are several other factors which made my decision in favor of the etios, just wanted to project the most important reason.

[A350XWB]

Originally Posted by amalji

My answer is yes, since I prefer replacing my gear knob for Rs.300 to 800 than to replace my brakes for 20k and still having to pray to God that it doesn't fail when I need it the most.

Totally respect your views. But I have not heard complaints about the brakes of the DZire or Manza or Logan (Verito) and I hope that we are discussing the competition here and not across segments. I still feel that the quality of the car on offer for the price in case of Toyota Etios does not really tally. For a comparison, just go through the thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ve-review.html
I deliberately took the example from far down the tree, just to have a comparison of a 4.5L car (for Eon Sportz (OTR BLR)) and an 8.5L car (for Etios VX (OTR BLR). For additional 4L, you get space but hugely downgraded interiors.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by A350XWB

I deliberately took the example from far down the tree, just to have a comparison of a 4.5L car (for Eon Sportz (OTR BLR)) and an 8.5L car (for Etios VX (OTR BLR). For additional 4L, you get space but hugely downgraded interiors.

Actually I agree with you on that point. And as a matter of fact that 4.5L Eon will even put Dzire and Manza to shame when it comes to interior quality. I have never checked out the Verito so excluding that from the list. Hyundai is known for its class leading interiors.

[Munish myetios]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Thanks for replying finally. We waited for a long time.
Did you take a TD before booking the car?

What is with weather gaskets. Member Amalji above clearly told and also the mods who covered the official TD review that the gaskets are present but not in there usual position. And there is no water seepage issues due to this. That only arises due to a shoddy after market work done on your car for speakers etc.

Do you have any statistics? I think people buying those cars also face issues. Ever heard of the famous rattles of Maruti products? Or poor braking issues of the new swift? Steering rattles from the Hyundai cars has also been consistently present in most of there cars. Any comments on that?

Atleast TBHP reviews are not biased. They are the reason I fell in love with this forum because of the total unbiased nature of them. Have you gone through them?

They are not absent as I told you. Do check the official TD review.

Thats being given on the Petrol car Only mate. Diesel has a waiting of more then 2-3 months. Petrol cars have a discount and all the companies are giving it. Did you hear about Honda's massive discounts and price cuts? So you believe that Honda cars had a problem?
No its just because of increasing cost of petrol, people are shifting towards diesel cars.

I booked the vehicle with Galaxy Toyota New Delhi before physically seeing the vehicle.On papers Toyota ETIOS seemed to be an excellent product.Test drive of a vehicle is only for 10 min and 2 kilometer and the actual performance can not be gauged with the sales executive explaining about the car and family members discussing their own agendas.Moreover the vehicle which is delivered to the customer is a different vehicle and not the same one. So the Quality can vary.During the visit to Galaxy Toyota workshop I observed that all the ETIOS had different noise and vibrations level. This was also shown to TKM Engineers and TKM Customer Support Representatives.

I have taken Toyota ETIOS model V factory fitted with all wiring for speaker etc and there is no outside market fittings. The problem of missing weather gaskets is because of absence and not because of modifications.

But all other Toyota products Innova, Corolla, Altis, Camry, Land Cruiser are internationally launched and running successfully in all the parts of the world.
Toyota ETIOS is a raw attempt on a totally new platform where the design and idea has been taken from Renault Logan which also does not have the full weather gasket but the doors are stretched further to the roof top to avoid the rain water to enter inside the door area. The exterior black plastic turning grey in color, slow response of brake pedal, low fuel economy, engine and road vibrations inside the passenger cabin, etc . The list of Questionable parameters is very long. It is better to discuss a complete luxurious hatchback at half the price of Toyota ETIOS than the doubly priced Toyota ETIOS sedan.

In my Toyota ETIOS there is no weather gasket on the door. As you also own the three best cars in the world Honda City, Corolla Altis and Mitsubishi Lancer- Just open their doors and look for the weather gaskets all around the window area and you will notice a black EPDM gasket which has many functions-
1)Prevent dust from entering inside.
2)Prevent water from entering inside.
3)Prevent and shield vibrations between doors and the passenger cabin frame.
4)Prevent and shield noise from the road to enter inside the passenger cabin.
5)Prevent insects, lizards cockroaches to enter inside the cabin or prevent them from being trapped in between the door and the frame.

If these weather gaskets are installed any of the above mentioned foreign particles stick to the door and extend away from the body of the car on opening the door. This can only be experienced by sitting inside the car and doing it for 5-10 times.
Well I have also been driving cars for more than 15 years but I had never expected such a stupid flaw inside the newly launched Toyota ETIOS.
Toyota ETIOS engineers will never be able or defend this argument.
Burt his mistake has happened and will be written as a key learning in the history of Toyota - The Toyota way, Toyota Production System - TPS.
I do not have an automobile education and I am only a user and if I can note it then definitely the great Toyota Engineers in Japan might have already noticed it.
Indian Toyota is only banking on the hard work and the caliber of Japanese engineers. TKM has shown its weakness by designing such a poor quality car and only supported by few non technical review writers. This Internet marketing campaign only prompted me to launch my website because of their provoking remarks on my reviews.
I had been a great Toyota follower and fan since 1979 on my maiden Toyota Corolla drive.But Toyota ETIOS disappoints me in all the fields from customer satisfaction to ride, comfort, Build Quality, Interior plastic Quality. Toyota ETIOS like any suitcase has only a great boot space to boast off. The rest is forced appreciation.

Hyundai, Maruti and Tata have very well adapted to Indian environmental conditions and ignorant nature of drivers who do not get their vehicles maintained or serviced but still their vehicles run very well on Indian roads.
All these brands sell 10 times more vehicles than Toyota in India but still we have good satisfied customer ratio wrt volumes.

On one hand we appreciate Toyota ETIOS as a City Sedan and is not stable at high speeds on highways etc and on the other hand we appreciate the boot space - Do we require boot space in a city car.
Does it mean that it is better to buy a space saving hatchback to easily drive in city rather than owning a costly Toyota ETIOS - with large boot space yet called a city car.

No doubt Toyota makes good Quality cars but Toyota ETIOS is a disaster.
We can not hide the incapabilities of Toyota Engineering by saying that it is priced less at Rs 7.5L

In any of the conditions

Quality - Good and Price - High = Engineering Design Fails.
Quality - Poor and Price - High= Engineering Design Fails
Quality - Poor and Price - Low= Engineering Design Fails
Quality - Good and Price - Low= Engineering Design PASSES.

In Toyota ETIOS I do not find a single feature or quality where I can say that it is “TOYOTA” product.

I know that team BHP is a non biased community and that is the only reason that apart from my own website I love to write, share and seek opinion from people like you.

My discussions are in the right spirit but today I am the only person to argue. But tomorrow I may have many like minded people to share and voice their concerns.

Toyota ETIOS performs good only on papers, Internet reviews, megazines, TVC and not on Road.

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by amalji

True. Could you please post pictures of your Etios interiors with seat covers on ? If it is already posted, please share the link.

Pl. look up my thread here for opening post and on page#3 of the thread. The quality of pics may not do adequate justice though. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ful-charm.html

Jokes apart, Which all needs are fulfilled in a better way (apart from the boot space) when you compare Etios with the new Swift? Just asking because I am curious to know in what all aspects Etios really 'wow's one and in what all aspects new Swift needs improvement.

Originally Posted by amalji

Space
Braking
Comfort
Boot space
Visibility
Ergonomics at driver seat and rear seat
Abs and airbags at affordable rates
Headroom
drivability thanks to the lower turbo lag
In case of petrol, power of one class above.

Thanks amalji! May I add balanced ride quality from my side?!

Originally Posted by lmilind

I have great regards for Maruti as trustworthy brand but believe me, on 3 Very important parameters of Space, Ride Quality & Driving Comfort ( Fun factor ), no Maruti Product except SX4 ( Dont know about Kizashi ) can no way come near to Etios.

Actually, even SX4 is no match for Etios on ride quality and handling!

Originally Posted by motorworks

I agree that on the space factor marutis do not score as well as the others. But on the fun factor or driving pleasure, I would rate the swift just below the ford fiesta. Its zippy, and quite a joy to drive, especially the kseries petrol motor. The diesel has initial turbo lag like all MJDs, but post that it is a rocket. I have never felt uneasy even at 160kmph!
And yes you cannot add space to a car, but from an individual's point of view I feel that I can compromise on space a little bit but not on overall quality.

For me, the ride quality of Etios matters a great deal. And, the petrol Etios is also good fun-to-drive. If ride quality and space do not matter, DZire is surely a better buy.

Originally Posted by A350XWB

Brother, you are totally mistaken here. Ask any manufacturer and they will tell you the opposite. This is the segment where the long term reliability matters the most. After the era of Ambys and Padminis, this segment has seen a leap in reliability. It does not take Hondas and Toyotas for common man to understand what is reliability. Look around and you will see umpteen number of Marutis, Hyundais and even the much bashed Tatas doing 1L+ Kms on the odo. Just remember that this segment also sees the most neglected cars with respect to preventive maintenance. So, even with the lack of proper maintenance, most of the modern cars excel.

I never said that reliability is not important. I just shared my expectations that Big Japs will take its meaning to a higher level. You may not agree with it, and that's okay!

...would you like to see the garish red garnish on the gear lever of your 8.5L car chip off with just a rub of your finger nail? (Have done it myself on the test drive car) My answer is no!

Yeah. Toyota must set right such issues if it wants to stand true to its Q-promise!