[A350XWB]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

Indian people have barely known the meaning of long-term reliability in this lower end segment. For them, Maruti has been the God in absence of anything better. Hondas and Toyotas will teach us the real meaning when the cars will continue to run damn well without fuss even after 3-4 lacs of kms on the odo.

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

I never said that reliability is not important. I just shared my expectations that Big Japs will take its meaning to a higher level. You may not agree with it, and that's okay!
Yeah. Toyota must set right such issues if it wants to stand true to its Q-promise!

I've quoted your older post along with the new one just for your reference. Please go through the italicized text. I replied for the marked text only. I'm sorry if that's not you meant, literally.
As I've clearly written in my previous post, Hyundai has given good quality interiors to the EON, which is 2-3 segments below the Etios and don't you think that Toyota, the Japanese giant, with all their quality, should have given at least a matching or even better interior to their Q-class Etios than that of a cheap car from a cheap Korean car company?

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Actually I agree with you on that point. And as a matter of fact that 4.5L Eon will even put Dzire and Manza to shame when it comes to interior quality. I have never checked out the Verito so excluding that from the list. Hyundai is known for its class leading interiors.

Thanks a lot for understanding my point. I just wanted to hint that at the price point of Etios, it is perfectly doable to give it a bit more, but Toyota banked on their brand value and put in the Q-class jargon, instead of giving the customers that little extra. I do not have any apprehensions regarding the powertrain of the car or it's longevity. The only problem is the advertising of the Q-class when the car is Q-less in many cases. And I hate it when people say things like "4L for a Toyota " or "15L for a Hyundai? ". For me, I drive the car and not the brand. If the car is good, I buy it, simple. When I buy a car, I never fix the brand first. It's usually the last criteria in my case.

[motorworks]

With no offence to any t-bhp member here, I find that there are 3 or 4 folks who are aggressively defending the etios because they have bought one. I'm not one of those who is completely bashing the Etios for no reason. But the car is clearly not making a case for itself! Look at the Liva, it has been clearly outdone by the competition and in spite of having a diesel i dont think its even rivalling the ritz!
Secondly why should any customer be left unhappy? Even in the logan's case I do not find such complaints or issues post sales.For that matter of fact, even the manza. People totally trash manza due to the Tata brand name and say it lacks quality , fit and finish etc. Forget the dzire for a moment and just compare the manza and the etios. I would take the manza any day. The fact is that the Etios is a decent but very uninspiring car and that is it. Sales charts will tell you the numbers as we move forward.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by A350XWB

Thanks a lot for understanding my point. I just wanted to hint that at the price point of Etios, it is perfectly doable to give it a bit more, but Toyota banked on their brand value and put in the Q-class jargon, instead of giving the customers that little extra.

Well Since we were comparing the Etios with the Eon, I just thought that we should also point out at the same time that Eon has better interiors then both the Dzire and the Manza too. Hyundai clicked in India precisely because of that reason that it makes its customers feel premium. Otherwise the servicing cost for there cars is a little steep.

The only problem is the advertising of the Q-class when the car is Q-less in many cases.

If a customer just goes according to the advertisement then no one in India will be dark skinned ( not being racist but you get my point right), no one will be bald and everyone will have smashing sparkling teeth.
The point is that in today's age a customer doesn't just go book the car after seeing a add. One should always take a TD of all the cars in his budget and then decide. Companies will always market there product as the best. So I am not very sure of why everyone is having a problem with the Q class promise. It can also be interpreted as a car which would be very good to drive, has space and stuff right?

And I hate it when people say things like "4L for a Toyota " or "15L for a Hyundai? ". For me, I drive the car and not the brand. If the car is good, I buy it, simple. When I buy a car, I never fix the brand first. It's usually the last criteria in my case.

Well many people do see the brand. Thats the reason Hyundai or maruti have failed to make any inroads into the C+ segment and above. The same reason why people are waiting for 2-3 months even now and paying 23L for a bare bone fortuner and Aria not selling much. A brand is built after many years of delivering good products right?
But I once again agree with you on the point that a customer is foolish and has himself to blame if he just follows a brand blindly. You should attribute some marks for a brand but ofcourse the main focus should be on the particular product thats being considered.

Originally Posted by motorworks

I find that there are 3 or 4 folks who are aggressively defending the etios because they have bought one. I'm not one of those who is completely bashing the Etios for no reason. But the car is clearly not making a case for itself! Look at the Liva, it has been clearly outdone by the competition and in spite of having a diesel i dont think its even rivalling the ritz!

I do not own the Etios mate. And where did you get that from about the car being a failure. IIRC the last month they sold around 6k units combined.

Secondly why should any customer be left unhappy? Even in the logan's case I do not find such complaints or issues post sales.For that matter of fact, even the manza. People totally trash manza due to the Tata brand name and say it lacks quality , fit and finish etc. Forget the dzire for a moment and just compare the manza and the etios. I would take the manza any day. The fact is that the Etios is a decent but very uninspiring car and that is it. Sales charts will tell you the numbers as we move forward.

This thread was started to discuss these so called issues like water leakage and clutch failures that were reported in the Etios. We will all agree I guess now that it was more of a knee jerk reaction and the problems lied elsewhere like after market modifications. Now whoever says that the quality of the interiors is poor should have known that before buying the car right? secondly and most importantly look at the competition. My uncle has the Dzire which has just done 12k kms in 2 years. The car rattles like crazy and the engine is far from smooth. My dad's friend is ready to part ways with his Manza because he finds it inconvenient to keep visiting TASS for small issues. Our fellow member Munish is fed up with his Etios due to high NVH levels and low FE. The point in they are all built to cost cars. I went to check out the Manza in the showroom before buying the Altis since we needed a car with the best back seat comfort. The car has lots of space and everything but some plastics were ready to fall off specially the one covering the seat belts on the B pillar. Atleast thats not the case with the Etios. The plastics may be hard but they won't fall off.
So you should see what suits you best. Senior member and moderator Tanveer finally booked the Liva instead of the Ritz for an example which suited his needs more.

And we are not defending Etios. I made an objection when many people on the forum started bashing Toyota without trying to find out if the issues being reported elsewhere on the internet were true or not.

You may want to ask if I will buy the Etios? Well It will be a very close fight between the Etios and the Manza.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

Indian people have barely known the meaning of long-term reliability in this lower end segment. For them, Maruti has been the God in absence of anything better. Hondas and Toyotas will teach us the real meaning when the cars will continue to run damn well without fuss even after 3-4 lacs of kms on the odo.

Indians have well-known the meaning of long-term reliability since 1983 when the lowly M800 was launched. It will be many more years before a Honda or Toyota can claim that they have run reliably for 20years in India. And this comes from experience - our M800 bought new in '85 was used by us for 19years and till the time we sold it, it not only was reliable, but was being used by me for 800km Chennai-Kerala runs after just a cursory inspection of fluid levels. So, please spare us "Indians" from being enlightened about long-term reliability.

BTW, it is funny that the Etios which seems to have a range of issues in the initial few months of ownership is to teach Indians about long-term reliability.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by A350XWB

Totally respect your views. But I have not heard complaints about the brakes of the DZire or Manza or Logan (Verito) and I hope that we are discussing the competition here and not across segments. I still feel that the quality of the car on offer for the price in case of Toyota Etios does not really tally. For a comparison, just go through the thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ve-review.html
I deliberately took the example from far down the tree, just to have a comparison of a 4.5L car (for Eon Sportz (OTR BLR)) and an 8.5L car (for Etios VX (OTR BLR). For additional 4L, you get space but hugely downgraded interiors.

1) Drive the Dzire, take it to 100 kmph, try slamming the brakes. Do the same on the Etios. If you are an experienced driver, you will understand, what I mean by poor braking in the Swift/Dzire.

2) For people whom looks matter more than functionality, Etios is not the car to go for. For people, who look for functionality and practicality above looks n style, with the hassle free ownership experience of Toyota, Etios is a great car.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

I booked the vehicle with Galaxy Toyota New Delhi before physically seeing the vehicle.On papers Toyota ETIOS seemed to be an excellent product.Test drive of a vehicle is only for 10 min and 2 kilometer and the actual performance can not be gauged with the sales executive explaining about the car and family members discussing their own agendas.Moreover the vehicle which is delivered to the customer is a different vehicle and not the same one. So the Quality can vary.During the visit to Galaxy Toyota workshop I observed that all the ETIOS had different noise and vibrations level. This was also shown to TKM Engineers and TKM Customer Support Representatives.

Had I involved in atleast 10 minutes of talk ( forget test drive ) with you before you bought this car, I would have recommended another car for you. Etios is not the car for people who are too concerned about NVH. Literally every review on the internet mentioned NVH as its weak points. And I find it amusing that you did not notice it in your TDs. I've driven atleast 5 Etios Petrol cars at different showrooms and on all of them NVH was noticeable. A car becomes a good car or bad car depending on the requirements of the owner. For you, Etios might be a bad car. But for every single Etios owners of this forum other than you, it's a great car. ( If I missed any dissatisfied Etios owners, my apologies. But, I did not see a single negative comment from any other Etios owners other than you on this thread. )

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

I have taken Toyota ETIOS model V factory fitted with all wiring for speaker etc and there is no outside market fittings. The problem of missing weather gaskets is because of absence and not because of modifications.

If you are not sure about what you are talking, please refrain from making comments. I've talked with many senior engineers including Maruti Service Masters ( Cochin ) Director - Rajan Varghese. Even though he is not a fan of the NVH in the Etios, he mentioned that the gasket design in Etios is quite normal and is used in many cars. He mentioned that it's not at all a design flaw and not to worry about that.

I talked about the same with another friend of mine who owns an Innova. He told that even on his Innova, it's the same. ( But, I haven't verified this myself. So, I'm not too sure about it )

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

slow response of brake pedal,

You should be either kidding or maybe, Toyota has specially made a car for you. I've talked with many Etios owners. I've read almost all reviews including team-bhp's reviews. I've tried the braking of Etios at very high speeds. It's one of the best brakes I've ever come across. The car stays stable inspite of severe change in direction and speed.

I took one of my friend who drives real rash and he was mighty impressed with the dynamics of this car after the test drive.

Team-bhp's best man - GTO mentioned that Etios' dynamics is even better than the Altis!

Now, on one of the reviews outside this forum by you, I've seen that you have even mentioned - "Poor Pickup" as one of the disadvantage of this car. Now, that's one comment which even the worst Etios critic would ever put forward. Because the minimum torque of this car is very near to the Maximum torque of the Dzire. And it is pulling a car which is lighter than the Dzire.

Either you got a car which is utter one-off case. ( If you say so, please share your full address. I would like to try out a test drive myself on your car whenever I plan to go for a road trip. If any of the other Etios owners want to accompany me, let me know. We'll all go in an Etios. )

Or I'm reading a review written by a person who is having wrong expectations on a car.

If you genuinely have a problem, I'll come with you to Toyota showroom, talk with them, record the conversations and see what they do about it, and then post the result in the forum. I'm talking about the issues mentioned like braking, and pick up, not the NVH because that's part and parcel of Etios.

On a lighter note, I can see several ads poping up on your website as well. The scope for internet marketing for click based ads are infinite.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

In my Toyota ETIOS there is no weather gasket on the door. As you also own the three best cars in the world Honda City, Corolla Altis and Mitsubishi Lancer- Just open their doors and look for the weather gaskets all around the window area and you will notice a black EPDM gasket which has many functions-
I do not have an automobile education and I am only a user and if I can note it then definitely the great Toyota Engineers in Japan might have already noticed it.

1) As team-bhp reviewer @Vid and many other members including me have confirmed, the gaskets are NOT missing on the Etios. It's on the door trims and not on the doors. A Little knowledge can sometimes be dangerous than zero knowledge.
2) When did Honda City, Corolla and Lancer become the best cars in the world ? That's news to me.
3) Please don't think that the Toyota Engineers who designed the gaskets are fools. This is a common design used in many cars around the world ( confirmed by a Maruti engineer )

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

TKM has shown its weakness by designing such a poor quality car and only supported by few non technical review writers.

Are you saying that GTO's excellent review on Etios Petrol was done by non-technical brain ? Having read posts by GTO and the posts by Mr. Munish all around the internet, I'll trust GTO more than Mr. Munish 100 out of 100 times.

Reference - Etios' Petrol review by GTO

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

On one hand we appreciate Toyota ETIOS as a City Sedan and is not stable at high speeds on highways etc and on the other hand we appreciate the boot space - Do we require boot space in a city car.
Does it mean that it is better to buy a space saving hatchback to easily drive in city rather than owning a costly Toyota ETIOS - with large boot space yet called a city car.

I never felt any instability for Etios at high speeds.

Originally Posted by A350XWB

The only problem is the advertising of the Q-class when the car is Q-less in many cases. And I hate it when people say things like "4L for a Toyota " or "15L for a Hyundai? ". For me, I drive the car and not the brand. If the car is good, I buy it, simple. When I buy a car, I never fix the brand first. It's usually the last criteria in my case.

Q-Class gives performance, comfort and space compromising on the over-engineered aspects of a car. That was a concept that Toyota tried out. If they can add Refinement ( NVH ) and looks to it, that would make the Etios the best seller. But, how successful they can be at doing that without shooting up the price further needs to be seen.

Originally Posted by motorworks

With no offence to any t-bhp member here, I find that there are 3 or 4 folks who are aggressively defending the etios because they have bought one.

I'll make it more clear. Out of the 3 or 4 members, you noted,
one is not an Etios owner.
two are Etios owners
one is going to be an Etios owner inspite of the negative reviews I've seen from people like Munish ( Yes, that's me. )

Firstly, if owners defend a bad post on their car, it means there is indeed customer loyalty for Etios.
Secondly, if a person who is about to buy the Etios inspite of seeing these negativeness is going ahead with the booking ( inspite of having Swift ZDi booking on hand ) means that person has taken the effort to verify that most of the complaints made doesn't make much sense. I'm spending 8 Lakhs on this car despite this forum post, and I do it only because I've done in-depth research on this car.
Thirdly, if a person who doesn't own the Etios supports this car, then he is viewing it with a neutral eye and giving his comments.

Check the Swift Braking issue thread on team-bhp and you will understand how many Swift owners are pissed off with the braking on the all new Swift.

Originally Posted by motorworks

Look at the Liva, it has been clearly outdone by the competition and in spite of having a diesel i dont think its even rivalling the ritz!

You are talking of Petrol sales figures, my friend. Maruti gets 8:2 bookings for Diesel:Petrol. Do the math and you'll understand, how close the sales figures are for Liva and Maruti's offerings. Apart from that, Diesel production for Etios is severely constrained because of the lack of facilities as of now. Toyota will be expanding their capacity in 6 months or so, and the Etios/Liva combinations has every quality to hit 8k to 10k per month with the help of Diesels.

To understand the scarcity in Diesel, I'll explain my experience. I booked my Etios and Liva ( for my mother ) Diesels, on the first day of the unofficial booking date on 1st week of September ( even before the launch of the Diesel by Toyota ). I'll be getting my Etios only on 27th of this month. Liva will take another one month of waiting.

Originally Posted by motorworks

Secondly why should any customer be left unhappy? Even in the logan's case I do not find such complaints or issues post sales.For that matter of fact, even the manza. People totally trash manza due to the Tata brand name and say it lacks quality , fit and finish etc. Forget the dzire for a moment and just compare the manza and the etios. I would take the manza any day. The fact is that the Etios is a decent but very uninspiring car and that is it. Sales charts will tell you the numbers as we move forward.

I would also have taken the Manza any day if only Tata's after sales was as good as Toyota's . Without that, I have a choice between Dzire and Etios, and my pick is Etios.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

If a customer just goes according to the advertisement then no one in India will be dark skinned ( not being racist but you get my point right), no one will be bald and everyone will have smashing sparkling teeth.
The point is that in today's age a customer doesn't just go book the car after seeing a add. One should always take a TD of all the cars in his budget and then decide. Companies will always market there product as the best. So I am not very sure of why everyone is having a problem with the Q class promise. It can also be interpreted as a car which would be very good to drive, has space and stuff right?


Well many people do see the brand. Thats the reason Hyundai or maruti have failed to make any inroads into the C+ segment and above. The same reason why people are waiting for 2-3 months even now and paying 23L for a bare bone fortuner and Aria not selling much. A brand is built after many years of delivering good products right?

But I once again agree with you on the point that a customer is foolish and has himself to blame if he just follows a brand blindly. You should attribute some marks for a brand but ofcourse the main focus should be on the particular product thats being considered.

Spot on!

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by A350XWB

As I've clearly written in my previous post, Hyundai has given good quality interiors to the EON, which is 2-3 segments below the Etios and don't you think that Toyota, the Japanese giant, with all their quality, should have given at least a matching or even better interior to their Q-class Etios than that of a cheap car from a cheap Korean car company?

I have seen Hyundai EON and you're right about it. That's the car to go for if interior aesthetics matter a lot to someone. Just beats the hell out of Etios. How much I wished, before buying Etios, that Toyota would improve upon the interiors. I'd have happily paid 1 L more for better interiors and greater refinement. But am I dissatisfied with Etios because of that? No way! Actually, the car keeps surprising me with brilliant fundamentals even till this day.

Also, for me Q-class means that the car as delivered (I can see that the interiors are not premium class - Toyota is not cheating me on that!) will stay that way for the years to come. That's my expectations of Q-class.

Originally Posted by motorworks

With no offence to any t-bhp member here, I find that there are 3 or 4 folks who are aggressively defending the etios because they have bought one. I'm not one of those who is completely bashing the Etios for no reason. But the car is clearly not making a case for itself! Look at the Liva, it has been clearly outdone by the competition and in spite of having a diesel i dont think its even rivalling the ritz!
Secondly why should any customer be left unhappy? Even in the logan's case I do not find such complaints or issues post sales.For that matter of fact, even the manza. People totally trash manza due to the Tata brand name and say it lacks quality , fit and finish etc. Forget the dzire for a moment and just compare the manza and the etios. I would take the manza any day. The fact is that the Etios is a decent but very uninspiring car and that is it. Sales charts will tell you the numbers as we move forward.

No offence taken mate. But I must clarify that my sole purpose of recommending Etios is that more folks can see in Etios beyond what is immediately visible so that they can also enjoy the brilliant fundamentals of the car.

Regarding Manza, just the other day I had made comment that I would take Manza over Etios most of the time, but for the concern on Tata quality niggles and A$$. Folks, please allow me to retract my statement. Just yesterday, I drove Manza for about 100 kms. Now I say that I'll ALWAYS take Etios over Manza for an owner-driven car. Reason, something that's not immediately visible. The brilliant ergonomics of Etios make it way so effortless to drive around! And I am not even talking about reliability etc. Who cares if Etios fails or succeeds? I just love it!

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Indians have well-known the meaning of long-term reliability since 1983 when the lowly M800 was launched. It will be many more years before a Honda or Toyota can claim that they have run reliably for 20years in India. And this comes from experience - our M800 bought new in '85 was used by us for 19years and till the time we sold it, it not only was reliable, but was being used by me for 800km Chennai-Kerala runs after just a cursory inspection of fluid levels. So, please spare us "Indians" from being enlightened about long-term reliability.

BTW, it is funny that the Etios which seems to have a range of issues in the initial few months of ownership is to teach Indians about long-term reliability.

I just meant that Big Japs are way ahead of Suzuki globally on quality parameters and I expect them to take the meaning of reliability to a higher plane. They may succeed, they may not. Please do not take offence from it, after all, if it really happens, you and me, the Indian customers, are only going to benefit from it.

Too early to make a definitive judgement on the Etios problems. Have to give time to Toyota to sort out any teething problems in a new plant. Any quality practice has to overcome initial issues. But agree with you fully, if Toyota fails on this front over time, it will lose its face big time.

[DevilsCry]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

I just meant that Big Japs are way ahead of Suzuki globally on quality parameters and I expect them to take the meaning of reliability to a higher plane.

Really? Just ask Honda or Toyota to make an 800 then discuss this topic again.

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

Have to give time to Toyota to sort out any teething problems in a new plant.

Agree. When I was in hunt for a new car, I was totally sold on Toyota Etios but reading 100s of genuine complaints on Etios' Facebook fan page scared me. I will not be recommending Etios to anyone until at least 2 years (then checking their Facebook fan page again, assuming that they no longer ban users as soon as they post a complaint). All the best to present Etios owners. Hope they don't face any of the dreading problems.

With all due respect, I feel that this thread is useless and needs to be closed. All claims here seem to have been made without any grounds (whether complaints or not-complaints). It is not up to T-BHP quality mark.

[nkrishnap]

Completely OT! - Request mods to keeps this post.

One thing that really surprises me on team-bhp forum is, its more the non owner who make all the noise most of the times and not the owners. There would be exceptions, but thats the trend on this forum now a days.

You need any pointers to this, please go through this thread or any fiat threads.

May be Toyota somehow managed to join the Fiat bandwagon!

[aaren]

My 2 cents on Etios, reliability and other factors.

I will buy a car because it meets my needs; otherwise I won't. These requirements will certainly go up depending my expectations and budget. Having done a test drive of Etios (recently) and Manza (quite some time back), if I had to choose between these two vehicles, I would opt for Etios. (Eventually I went in for Honda Jazz – please check my ownership thread if need be). But my decision to go in for brand 'A' does not make other brands bad or useless. It is just that they do not meet my needs.

Yes, the NVH levels were relatively higher in Etios but to me the NVH levels did not do the decibel breaking levels!! It was very high in comfort; the much-maligned single wiper did a superb job during the TD (it was raining then) and was a pleasure to drive. While Manza ticked many of the boxes, the drivability was not as good as Etios.

About reliability, am talking about a 2-wheeler here. I bought a Kinetic Honda in 1988, which had the original Honda engine and parts. The only thing that I did during the 12-year ownership (driven in Vadodara, Ahmedabad and Hyderabad) was to change the belts, Oil and Battery. Even if I start the vehicle after 30 days, the push button start will start the vehicle in just one press of the button. The bulbs, the spark plug, the clutch, the brakes - nothing had to be touched during these 12 years and around 75k kms of running. No break downs ever. And I got an average of 48 kmpl.

Many of us in the forum have owned cars abroad and know a thing or two about reliability and why the cars from Japs (with few notable exceptions) are always valued. Suzuki is one of the exceptions (not sure which are the other exceptions from Japan)

I don’t think a person buys a car or any item only to criticize it roundly on every point later. Even the much criticized water leaks in Etios – to what extent it is true is within the realms of speculation since (to my knowledge) no owner in Team BHP has mentioned about it. It only goes to show that the buyer has not done his/her homework prior to the purchase. And it is not fair to make unsubstantiated claims either way. And making unfair or unsubstantiated claims or supporting it is not the aim of Team-BHP. And to that extent, I think this thread is serving its purpose.

Just now, I saw the post of nkrishnap and totally agree with his points. I added my thoughts here because I felt that some statements were being made that appear to be not based on personal experiences.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by DevilsCry

Agree. When I was in hunt for a new car, I was totally sold on Toyota Etios but reading 100s of genuine complaints on Etios' Facebook fan page scared me. I will not be recommending Etios to anyone until at least 2 years (then checking their Facebook fan page again, assuming that they no longer ban users as soon as they post a complaint). All the best to present Etios owners. Hope they don't face any of the dreading problems.

I would recommend that you post a few of those '100 complaints' so that the owners of this community can verify it. As far as the complaints which are already posted on this thread are concerned, I find them either non-genuine or minor. Hardly found a serious glitch till now.

When I select a car, I mainly do 4 things.

1) Go and see the car in real, analyze it for as much time as possible. The first time, I checked Etios, I was in the showroom for almost 4 hours checking out the minute details.

2) Test drive the car for as much time as possible ( I did it 5 times from 3 different showrooms in Cochin and Trivandrum). If possible, accompany your friends when they take a test drive. This will give a different person's perspective.

3) Read unbiased reviews like the ones in team-bhp which clearly mentions the negatives and positives ( however minute it is ). Analyze whether your priorities are met by the positives and your top priority factors are not compromised by the negatives.

4) Read the most pessimistic reviews of the car and analyze how much of truth these reviews have in them, and whether these negatives weigh more than the positives of the car.

After the above 4 checks, I've decided to stick with Etios. I'll stick with it regardless of how many more spammers makes their presence felt in the facebook fan page for Etios. In fact, I even doubt whether some of the members with "very fake" userids are representing other car companies. I've even complained to Toyota Etios moderator on why spammers are allowed to even post on the fan page. It destroys the overall feel of the fan page, if the discussions are junk and doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by DevilsCry

With all due respect, I feel that this thread is useless and needs to be closed. All claims here seem to have been made without any grounds (whether complaints or not-complaints). It is not up to T-BHP quality mark.

I find this thread very useful for potential buyers of Etios for the following reasons.

1) People like Mr. Munish who have different expectations from a car do not buy this car again, blindly trusting brand - Toyota
2) People for whom Practicality and functionality means more than looks and style, ( aka the right target audience for this car ) will not turn away from this car
3) I'm sure Toyota is reading this thread, because I've discussed about this thread on their fan page with a positive intent. This thread might convince them that practicality and functionality might not be the only factors that can attract customers. Indians also give care for interior looks and speedometer designs. That might prompt them to correct these minor glitches in their future releases, so that future buyers can benefit.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by DevilsCry

Really? Just ask Honda or Toyota to make an 800 then discuss this topic again.

First of all the 800 came at a time when we used to have 1 year and more waiting for scooters, TV was a luxury and so on. The parameters have totally changed now.
Even then at its price point the 800 is an amazing car. Same goes for the Maruti Van. We had one from 89-98. Drove it to every place on the map, loaded it with un-imaginable amount of luggage and it passed each time. But then as a kid I also remember so many times stopping on the highway with us stranded on the road with the front left hand seat kept outside on the road and the driver trying to pour water on something. That car used to get overheated a lot. So will I call it reliable? Yes because it was the best that the market offered at that time. Now we make all those trips and carry luggage in my Innova. I literally shifted my whole house in Delhi 2 months back using my Innova. Not a rattle from any corner, no issues whatsoever.
As an after thought can Maruti give us an Alto with Eon like interior quality? Or give us a ritz/swift with Brio and Jazz like quality interiors? The point is that each car has its pros and cons. So stay away from rhetorical statements like above, they don't serve any purpose.

Marutis rattle. Toyotas do not. And don't tell me that your maruti doesn't because thats not the point. Thats what the member above was trying to say but I am not sure why people took offence and let go off there patriotic juices.

Having said that I am not in favor of all or none phenomenon. These are all car makers and they are there to give us there best products and earn a profit. Some products from them are very good and some fail. Both maruti and Toyota/Honda have had there share of success and failures.

With all due respect, I feel that this thread is useless and needs to be closed. All claims here seem to have been made without any grounds (whether complaints or not-complaints). It is not up to T-BHP quality mark.

I have been saying that from a long time. This thread creates a false impression of the car. Issues that have been reported elsewhere but not by owners of the said cars in the forum. Interiors being bad or cheap is not a fault and I hope everyone agrees. Whether Toyota is cheating the customers is also an invalid argument. Toyota and Hondas are the most costliest cars you can buy if you see the equipment they offer. There USP has always been long term hassle free ownership experience. Ever seen a Honda City's interior? It looked cheap always with all that shoddy looking plastic and now with the arrival of VW and Hyundai it looks even more downmarket. And I own a city and still saying this. The Etios similarly is a first attempt of Toyota in that segment. And they haven't got a winning car on there hands for sure and a lot is left desired. But the car is not necessarily bad then the other cars in its segment. Its just bad if you judge it by Altis standards.

[DevilsCry]

Originally Posted by amalji

1) Go and see the car in real, analyze it for as much time as possible. The first time, I checked Etios, I was in the showroom for almost 4 hours checking out the minute details.

2) Test drive the car for as much time as possible ( I did it 5 times from 3 different showrooms in Cochin and Trivandrum). If possible, accompany your friends when they take a test drive. This will give a different person's perspective.

I have repeatedly went to different Toyota showrooms to repeatedly analyse Etios and test drove it again and again during my three month long booking. Your 4 hour checking during first time is nothing in comparison. I was impressed since I found it to be simply the best car in sub 14 lac category and I could not find any single problem at all.

Originally Posted by amalji

I would recommend that you post a few of those '100 complaints' so that the owners of this community can verify it. As far as the complaints which are already posted on this thread are concerned, I find them either non-genuine or minor. Hardly found a serious glitch till now.

I was not a member of T-BHP then and hence I didn't care to click screenshots before Toyota deleted them. And I am not in mood to again check their Facebook page every 5 min to spot any complaint before Toyota deletes them and bans users. I would just say that if your Etios is free from problems then awesome! You have got simply the best car under 14 lac category IMO. A friend of mine took risk and just bought a Liva this Diwali. I will be closely following his reports since my next car is going to be an Etios (even though I cancelled my Etios booking barely two months ago).

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

I just meant that Big Japs are way ahead of Suzuki globally on quality parameters and I expect them to take the meaning of reliability to a higher plane. Please do not take offence from it, after all, if it really happens, you and me, the Indian customers, are only going to benefit from it.

No offense taken, just putting forth facts from our market. What happens globally is immaterial to us - we are concerned about what happens in our backyard/market, which is what affects us. In India, Suzuki has been leading the way when it comes to reliability, much before the other Japs and I think the latter need to learn up from the former.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

First of all the 800 came at a time when we used to have 1 year and more waiting for scooters, TV was a luxury and so on. The parameters have totally changed now.

So, did the meaning of quality change for the better or worse ? If something was working reliably 25 years ago, should the benchmark not be higher today ?

Originally Posted by drmohitg

But then as a kid I also remember so many times stopping on the highway with us stranded on the road with the front left hand seat kept outside on the road and the driver trying to pour water on something. That car used to get overheated a lot.

You need to refresh your childish memories a bit. I never drove an Omni, but engine-wise it is quite similar to M800 and I doubt the car would need topup of water in radiator like the old Amby did.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Marutis rattle. Toyotas do not. And don't tell me that your maruti doesn't because thats not the point. Thats what the member above was trying to say but I am not sure why people took offence and let go off there patriotic juices.

Ha, so you make a blanket statement on rattles, but everyone has to gulp it down, but not put forward their case. I have a '99 M800 that does rattle. I also have a '05 Baleno and a '07 Swift that don't rattle. And I am sure you can find Toyotas that rattle - if they can fill up with water from rains, rattles are no big deal. BTW, there are Toyotas that have been killing people in the US due to faulty quality - I would rather "live" with a rattle, than "die" in a car that is faulty.

BTW, someone mentioned "Indians" and I replied to that - I do not bring patriotism into cars because it is not connected. So maybe you should read up before making such baseless insinuations.

[pgsagar]

So many pages devoted to an ugly car. Mods should close this meaningless thread. So what if it is a Toyota? These days lines between qualities of rival brands are blurring. Toyota is slipping while others ( Indians like Tata/Mahindra ) are catching up. I feel Manza beats Etios on all fronts and Scorpio beats Innova on all fronts. I know die-hard Toyota fan will never agree with it but that is a fact.

Dr.Mohitg, You said give Toyota some time to sort out teething problems. Teething problems? On a Toyota? What's that? Don't we use those words on Tata cars? Are Toyotas also having teething problems these days? Then what's the difference between Tata and Toyota?

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

So, did the meaning of quality change for the better or worse ? If something was working reliably 25 years ago, should the benchmark not be higher today ?

I am saying that when you have choices only then you end up comparing. Till 2 years back the honda city was the best car you could buy. Suddenly the vento arrived and made it look so un-VFM.

You need to refresh your childish memories a bit. I never drove an Omni, but engine-wise it is quite similar to M800 and I doubt the car would need topup of water in radiator like the old Amby did.

My memories are very fresh sir. And I owned that car for 10 years. I learnt how to drive on it. And the incident I told above repeated itself many a times when you drive the car continuously at high speeds. And my dad is very attached to his cars. So please don't think that it was a badly maintained vehicle.

Ha, so you make a blanket statement on rattles, but everyone has to gulp it down, but not put forward their case. I have a '99 M800 that does rattle. I also have a '05 Baleno and a '07 Swift that don't rattle. And I am sure you can find Toyotas that rattle - if they can fill up with water from rains, rattles are no big deal.

Once again am highly disappointed that a senior member like yourself also choose to make that comment without reading this thread or the many more actual ownership threads of Etios/Liva on the forum. Whose car filled up with water exactly? Please let us know the details about that car.

As far as my blanket statement is concerned, you can interpret it as you like. Just once again go around this very own forum and make a mental point to note how many owners have problems with there Maruti, Tata, Fiat, Hyundai and Toyota. You unfortunately choose to ignore my point in the above post about the all or none phenomenon. Why does all cars have to be good or bad. Its the collective % at the end of the day that matters. And that % is higher for the Maruti when you compare it with Toyota.
Anyways lets not make this thread into a maruti vs toyota by quoting parts of eachothers post and going on about it. You are a happy maruti owner, I am a happy maruti and Toyota owner.

BTW, there are Toyotas that have been killing people in the US due to faulty quality - I would rather "live" with a rattle, than "die" in a car that is faulty.

This just contradicts your statement above that lets compare cars in our industry and not venture into global scenarios. You really wanna say that Toyota's have been killing people in the US? I am at a loss of words here.

BTW, someone mentioned "Indians" and I replied to that - I do not bring patriotism into cars because it is not connected. So maybe you should read up before making such baseless insinuations.

Yes he said that we Indians will know more about reliability now with Honda and Toyota venturing into the A and B segments. Is it really offensive? He did say we indians and not You indians. Anyways I am sure all of us here are very patriotic and value it a lot. So lets all relax a bit here and not make this thread redundant.

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Scorpio beats Innova on all fronts. I know die-hard Toyota fan will never agree with it but that is a fact.

Dr.Mohitg, You said give Toyota some time to sort out teething problems. Teething problems? On a Toyota? What's that? Don't we use those words on Tata cars? Are Toyotas also having teething problems these days? Then what's the difference between Tata and Toyota?

Does it really? Scorpio beats Innova on ALL fronts? I own the Innova so am sure anything I say in favour of it will be seen as my ego speaking.

Yes I said that. Toyota would surely look into it and if there is a genuine problem like the ones associated with weather gaskets, I hope they rectify it. For instance Vid did mention in his review that all the new Etios/Liva cars are coming now with an extra underbody coating to reduce those NVH levels. So whats the harm in that? This is a car that they have got for the first time unlike there other offerings which were launched elsewhere much earlier and so all basic problems were sorted out. BTW don't people say that even the big german cars become more reliable as they come towards the end of there life cycle since the company by that time solves all the niggles that have presented itself?