[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by amalji

If you want to do a comparison, I would recommend that you compare the % of unwiped area on the Etios, with the % of unwiped area on another car.

More than a general % of the windshield, the % of critical area cleared matters most and I am not sure how far the single arm could reach as far down the driver side as it should.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

More than a general % of the windshield, the % of critical area cleared matters most and I am not sure how far the single arm could reach as far down the driver side as it should.

It does cover the critical areas better. I'll post pics later.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Yesterday we had a Etios demo at our office complex. They had a Liva and the sedan version. Since I had already taken a TD long time ago, this time I only wanted to check out what Munish was complaining about. From my observation, the door did not have any rubber gasket (it is all metal), while most cars have it. Not sure if this is cost-cutting, but if it was not required, others could also omit it and save money. So maybe there is a point to the issue raised by Munish.
I took a snap, but some issue with transferring it to my PC.

Finally managed to get the snap onto my laptop.
Look at the door (mid-left end of snap where you see the sales-guy's hand) - no gasket anywhere on the door, unlike normal cars and which could be a potential problem related to water/moisture/dust ingress apart from the issues pointed by Munish.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Finally managed to get the snap onto my laptop.
Look at the door (mid-left end of snap where you see the sales-guy's hand) - no gasket anywhere on the door, unlike normal cars and which could be a potential problem related to water/moisture/dust ingress apart from the issues pointed by Munish.
Attachment 848951

And what does that prove? Can we please end this argument? No one has disputed Munish's point that the gasket design of Etios is different from most Indian cars, if not all.

Heck, even my 11 lakh Vento doesn't have a complete padding - have a look at the official review picture of Polo here. My close friend's Punto's design seems to be even more worse (pic here). But is that really a problem? No rats or lizard or water has seeped through either of our cars till date.

I cleaned my car thoroughly yesterday evening, in and out. Today morning there was a good layer of dust. That's normal. So with this design there's an extra area for me to dust - that's all. I have mentioned it before on this thread, I can replicate Munish's pictures of dusty sections (between the door) with my Vento pictures. It's not that big a deal. What is important for me is the inner layering of rubber on the doors (that is also present even in the T siblings) seals with the inner surface of the door, and doesn't allow any dust or water to come in. It doesn't in the Vento. It doesn't in the Punto. I'm pretty sure it doesn't in the T siblings too.

I would love to support any Etios owner for the issues they face, but is there a single other user having issues on this matter? I haven't seen anyone posting so. Lets please put on hold this someone faces it.

@supremeBaleno, sincere request - please do not reply back to my post. Both of us aren't Etios owners. Lets not continue this further unless other Etios owner(s) face this issue.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

And what does that prove? Can we please end this argument? No one has disputed Munish's point that the gasket design of Etios is different from most Indian cars, if not all.

And when did I say it proves something ? I could not post the snap earlier - I did now, that's about it. BTW, you know, the way you say "gasket design of Etios is different from most Indian cars" is akin to saying "the brake design of the L/V versions of new Swift is just different from most Indian cars" and so there is nothing inherently wrong with the former's braking. Would we accept that lame argument ?

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Heck, even my 11 lakh Vento doesn't have a complete padding - have a look at the official review picture of Polo here. My close friend's Punto's design seems to be even more worse (pic here). But is that really a problem? No rats or lizard or water has seeped through either of our cars till date.

Maybe it would do you good to relook the links you posted of the Vento/Polo whatever - one of them has rubber gasket on the top and the other has it on top and extending to the mid-section. This is different from the Etios where there is no gasket at all.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

I cleaned my car thoroughly yesterday evening, in and out. Today morning there was a good layer of dust. That's normal. So with this design there's an extra area for me to dust - that's all. I'm pretty sure it doesn't in the T siblings too.

That's so lame a reasoning - an extra area to dust!!! Why have windows at all then ? Just another area to dust, right ? And since you say you don't own an Etios, how are you so sure about the T siblings ?

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

@supremeBaleno, sincere request - please do not reply back to my post. Both of us aren't Etios owners. Lets not continue this further unless other Etios owner(s) face this issue.

My sincere request - post if you have something to, and leave others to post at their discretion - this is not a private T-club, for God's sake. If we were to post only about cars that we own, there won't be much activity happening on TBHP.

[ninjatalli]

^^ @supremeBaleno, how nice of you to pick and reply to particular lines without understanding the gist of what I was explaining.

And no, that Etios-Swift comparison is not not akin to each other. Your sample size is Munish and who else? Also do note, I didn't say the gasket design was better. I trust the engineers to have a better idea on the design, unless the majority of the owners find it otherwise.

As for part-gasket lining of Vento/Polo, it requires only a gap for water/insects to enter. If Etios has an issue, so would Vento, Polo. But they don't, as for the reasons in my previous post. And if it proves otherwise, the other owners would mention it so.

I could go on - but then I'm reminded of @rjstyles69's verbal duel with a tractor driver on the Bangalore - Mysore highway, and I stop myself into getting on a similar one-on-one argument. Please continue if you want to.

Originally Posted by amalji

It does cover the critical areas better. I'll post pics later.

Still awaiting - please share. Also, where is the ownership thread?
Also are the NVH levels and mileage improving as the kms progress?

[supremeBaleno]

Well, the gist of your post if there was one that is, was about burying a customer's concern, without discussion and that is not how things are done here.
Maybe Munish is making a mountain out of a mole-hill, but that would be known only via discussion. I would rather give him the benefit of doubt as a consumer like us, than to the manufacturer.

BTW, I did not know that you owned a tractor too apart from the Vento and Punto.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

^^ @supremeBaleno, how nice of you to pick and reply to particular lines without understanding the gist of what I was explaining.

And no, that Etios-Swift comparison is not not akin to each other. Your sample size is Munish and who else? Also do note, I didn't say the gasket design was better. I trust the engineers to have a better idea on the design, unless the majority of the owners find it otherwise.

As for part-gasket lining of Vento/Polo, it requires only a gap for water/insects to enter. If Etios has an issue, so would Vento, Polo. But they don't, as for the reasons in my previous post. And if it proves otherwise, the other owners would mention it so.

I could go on - but then I'm reminded of @rjstyles69's verbal duel with a tractor driver on the Bangalore - Mysore highway, and I stop myself into getting on a similar one-on-one argument. Please continue if you want to.

@ninjatali - We cannot fault @supremebaleno for being misguided. Because even I, being an ardent supporter of this car after reading the team-bhp review was mis-guided by Munish' website. He makes it look so convincing. I even decided at one stage to go ahead with the swift. Anyway, I'm glad I have better people to advice and guide me as my friends. So, went ahead and bought the car inspite of the negative pulicity.
After being extremely satisfied with my Etios Diesel, my mother went ahead with the booking of her Liva Diesel. She got it one week back.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Still awaiting - please share. Also, where is the ownership thread?
Also are the NVH levels and mileage improving as the kms progress?

Ownership thread will be ready as promised in first week of December. Will post the pics of wiping in the ownership thread. I'm at Vellore now. Cochin to Vellore took just 7 hours 45 minutes on the Etios Diesel. Cruising at 140 kmph ( 3000 rpms ) was very comfortable. No significant NVH thanks to that tall 5th gear. Excellent braking and handling adds to the confidence at such high speeds.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

And when did I say it proves something ? I could not post the snap earlier - I did now, that's about it. BTW, you know, the way you say "gasket design of Etios is different from most Indian cars" is akin to saying "the brake design of the L/V versions of new Swift is just different from most Indian cars" and so there is nothing inherently wrong with the former's braking. Would we accept that lame argument ?

That's so lame a reasoning - an extra area to dust!!! Why have windows at all then ? Just another area to dust, right ? And since you say you don't own an Etios, how are you so sure about the T siblings ?

Just wanted to post my views on it, since I've been using the car for 1 month now.

The braking issue of Swift is a very critical issue. The gasket design of the Etios, even though debatable hasn't caused any issues as of now. If you ask me what are the impacts of the poor brakes in Swift, they are

1) Longer Braking distance
2) Reduces the confidence of the driver at high speeds
3) Affects the safety of the passengers

and it affects every Swift owners other than the ZDi owners.

If you ask the same question on Etios gaskets, the only impact, I've seen is that in addition to the outer surface that we clean, we have to clean the door trims as well. It's so easy to do that and doesn't deserve the attention that Mr. Munish has been trying to create here. Being an Etios owner and trying to not clean the area for 2 weeks, I can confidently say that it leaves just a tad bit of dust on the door trims. And please do not mistake it for dust inside the cabin. It's only in the door trims which have no contact with the passenger sitting inside.

[supremeBaleno]

If it affects every Swift owner like you said (not sure who gave you that data though), all or most of the new Swifts should be crashing around us, given our propensity to drive like our tail is on fire and almost always much above the prescribed speed limit. Since that is not the case, using your own logic, to me it seems like it is just a different design with no issues attached.

Regarding the "it is so easy to clean the door trims as well" part, that is a workaround you are suggesting for a problem - not a fix. It is akin to telling Swift L/V owners to "drive at lower speed, it is so easy and safe, you see".

We all love our cars and find it tough to accept faults in it - that way I see where you and others are coming from. But, it is perfectly possible that the same car is giving someone else issues which are painful for that person. Let us atleast try to understand his problems, instead of ganging up and ridiculing him.

In Munish's initial posts, I could not really see his issue with the door because he would post snap of the frame, which did have the gasket - so I wondered what he was complaining about and asked him on this thread to put snaps of the door. Once I saw the Etios in metal, I saw his point and felt he could have a cause for concern.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

If it affects every Swift owner like you said (not sure who gave you that data though), all or most of the new Swifts should be crashing around us, given our propensity to drive like our tail is on fire and almost always much above the prescribed speed limit. Since that is not the case, using your own logic, to me it seems like it is just a different design with no issues attached.

Not the case because we adjust our driving style to the braking on hand. When I was driving my Esteem, I always knew that it had a great engine. But, I also knew about its limitations. So, we get adjusted to that. But, if an unforseen situation comes across, you are at risk. I've several friends of mine who own Swift Diesel. Every one of them have bad experience with the Swift brakes. Check the Swift braking thread here on the team-bhp as well. I've tried it myself and can say that the brakes in Etios or any other car in that class for that matter that they are all leagues ahead of the braking in Swift.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Regarding the "it is so easy to clean the door trims as well" part, that is a workaround you are suggesting for a problem - not a fix. It is akin to telling Swift L/V owners to "drive at lower speed, it is so easy and safe, you see".

No comments. I didn't find sense in such crazy comparisons. And I do not want to bash Swift here. So, I do not want to take this debate further. If you feel that braking issue is comparable to dust issue on door trims, I agree to you. Peace.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

We all love our cars and find it tough to accept faults in it - that way I see where you and others are coming from. But, it is perfectly possible that the same car is giving someone else issues which are painful for that person. Let us atleast try to understand his problems, instead of ganging up and ridiculing him.

I suspect the intentions of Munish, and I've already reported the same to the moderators of this forum. And they've already taken actions on that as well. I do not want to post everything here in the open public and resort to a mud war. If you trust Munish, you can. But, I don't and I'm 100% sure on why I feel so.

[RadiantKarma]

@supremeBaleno, I agree with you that ridicule has no place in fact-finding. At the same time, one seeks to confirm the intent of Munish's reporting and to guage the real extent of all the problems mentioned by him, because the approach is so apparently biased. And it's is not limited to exaggerations. He finds faults with even the acknowledged strenghts of the car like braking, ride quality - without ever detailing the exact problem faced - despite requests. This forum deserves full information and not repeated judgemental statements.

P.S. Just to share - dust accumulation due to lack of weather gaskets has not mattered much to me, possibly because the light beige colour of the car disguises it rather well. Can be an issue with darker colours. Time will only tell if this lack of weather gasket can cause moisture ingress in future, even as no problem has been faced so far.

Originally Posted by A350XWB

Now, to the bad bits I noticed. The cable release for the hood is the worst part in the car. In the above said car, if you pull the release knob, the entire assemble comes out into your hand and you have to press it back into position.
There is an annoying rattling noise already started from the left side of the dash.
As of now, these are the two things I've noticed and the car will go for first service this week. Will update on the status of the issues after the service is done.

Will appreciate your sharing an update - keen to know Toyota's response to the quality issues.

[drsnt]

although I might not be completely right, i feel that gasket in the upper area ( is in my indica) will not only help reduce the dust but will also prevent water to enter the area, so when u open the door u do not get wet as water accumulated there will drop when door is opened. i also feel the same for insects and other objects like leaves etc

the gasket in upper side prevents ingress of these things in door side

[amalji]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

@supremeBaleno, I agree with you that ridicule has no place in fact-finding. At the same time, one seeks to confirm the intent of Munish's reporting and to guage the real extent of all the problems mentioned by him, because the approach is so apparently biased. And it's is not limited to exaggerations. He finds faults with even the acknowledged strenghts of the car like braking, ride quality - without ever detailing the exact problem faced - despite requests. This forum deserves full information and not repeated judgemental statements.

+1. It's easy for a person to guage the intentions, if we read through the posts. It becomes all the more easier, if you are an Etios owner, because this is such a wonderful car to drive and use.

And remember that each time, we utter his name on this forum, it can be converted to possible revenue. For people who need publicity, it doesn't matter whether the publicity is positive or negative. All that matters is a "hit"

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

P.S. Just to share - dust accumulation due to lack of weather gaskets has not mattered much to me, possibly because the light beige colour of the car disguises it rather well. Can be an issue with darker colours. Time will only tell if this lack of weather gasket can cause moisture ingress in future, even as no problem has been faced so far.

I've white Etios. I don't face any issues with mine as well. It feels a tad more dustier. But, never as dusty as the outside of the car unless you get into some sort of ego where you feel that
"I'm never ever going to clean the door trims even if I wash my car."

[drmohitg]

Well we have to agree that this is a area which has been overlooked by Toyota and they should have given the gaskets on the doors also for the only reason that the area in the pictures gets dirty. Although one can argue its not a concern and can be easily cleaned but still lets accept that many people might find it a headache and irritating to clean the car themselves specially since this area will be visible whenever you climb inside the car. Most of us get our cars cleaned by helpers etc who may not have access to the car keys and hence this particular area might end up accumulating dust and staying dirty and acting as an eye sore for the owner.

Having said that I would also like to stress that its a very minor issue. The absence of gaskets on the doors only causes dirt to accumulate on that part of the body. In no ways is this dirt entering your car's actual cabin. And so is the case with any other form of matter, be it water, leaves, insects, lizards and what not. Also basing your whole opinion about a car ( any car for that matter) on such a trivial issue and spinning a web of criticism around it is at best amateurish.

So I believe we can rest the case and consider the "mystery of the missing gaskets" solved!

Also all owners do give a feedback to the company so that they may acknowledge the issue and come up with a solution for it.