30th November 2011, 00:35 | #346 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pune
Posts: 1,931
Thanked: 3,825 Times
| Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints This is complete OT, but couldn't help it at sleepy 12.30a.m. 1. A handful of Toyota supporters are hard core fanboys who refer people supporting their judgement 'better' and and opposing people as 'misguided' and their examples 'crazy'. 2. Is the ownership a required criteria for judging a car? Debate is still on! The result could decide the fate of many car magazines who own none of the cars they review. 3. On page 23, the seemingly useless word 'gasket' which I mainly heard in terms of a food cooker is repeated 25 times! EDIT counting the above, it's 26! That ends my summary. People are requested to resume fight while the rest of us fill up our pop corn bowl. Last edited by ani_meher : 30th November 2011 at 00:37. |
() Thanks |
|
30th November 2011, 01:05 | #347 | |
Team-BHP Support Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,830
Thanked: 12,251 Times
| Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints Quote:
Many automobile magazines are allowed to drive and use some cars for a long period of time These are short-term ownership reviews, where the car-maker lends a car to the magazine for a period of 4-6 months for a long term review of the car. Many magazines get different cars, and if you read all the short-term ownership reviews, you'l see that they do get the experience of owning it, and are hence able to give us close-to-accurate reviews. The Liva is a good car. No, it's a great car. But Toyota has taken the cost-cutting measures a tad to far, I'd say. They could have fine-tuned the product and made it more appealing and feel less built-to-cost than what it does now. I mean, if cheaper cars can have rubber beading around the edges of the doors, I'm sure The Etios and Liva could have too. The core of the product is strong. It has a strong engine, a great gearbox, a brilliant steering, good handling and dynamics. So the car, internally, is spot-on. But they seemed to have forgotten the finish the product. Hope Toyota rectifies this soon. | |
(1) Thanks |
The following BHPian Thanks suhaas307 for this useful post: | mohandas |
30th November 2011, 06:03 | #348 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 1,640
Thanked: 3,175 Times
| Quote:
| |
() Thanks |
30th November 2011, 08:18 | #349 | |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: KA51/KL03
Posts: 923
Thanked: 861 Times
| Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints Quote:
As I had written earlier, after being with the car for sometime, I started liking it. It's no way a perfect car, but it makes sense in the segment. It's got space and a good powertrain, good ride and neutral handling. Yes, it has niggles, but in my opinion, those are not deal-breakers. If Toyota is able to replace those cheap bits, then the value of this car can go up a notch. (As I had mentioned in my posts, I evaluated the car, keeping aside the brand. If you take the brand first and evaluate the car, thinking that you will have Corolla quality, then you will be in for a disappointment) In Kerala, the price is also not high unlike in Bangalore, where the humongous taxes makes everything feel overpriced The car I mentioned has a tray in the boot which covers the entire boot floor and has raised edges (maybe 2" tall and is a snug fit). I would recommend it to Etios owners as it helps to keep the boot floor clean. It can be taken out as such and any debris left by the luggage can be dusted out easily. (As a side note, my co-brother's cousin is the Senior Sales Manager at the dealership, but I think they would have attended to the niggles even if he had no connection there. I had wrongly mentioned the model as G and it actually is a V) | |
(1) Thanks |
The following BHPian Thanks A350XWB for this useful post: | RadiantKarma |
30th November 2011, 10:45 | #350 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pune
Posts: 1,931
Thanked: 3,825 Times
| Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints
Agreed to rest of the points. But that will render the 'first impressions' here on forum pretty useless, don't you think? I think first impression creates lasting impression, and even though the car 'grows on you' as stated hard by many ugly-car owners first impression is very important too. But I got your point. As per the above statement, I beg to know how it is a great car. Until I saw the pricing, I too felt it was an okay car catering to a certain segment. But on seeing the prices, I couldn't help but to wonder in disbelief! They are right in the ball park of Jazz (at least the safe versions, barring J & G) On road prices in Pune: Toyota Etios Liva G 523,985 Toyota Etios Liva G Plus 578,121 Toyota Etios Liva V 636,427 Toyota Etios Liva VX 693,046 Honda Jazz Basic 627,511 Honda Jazz Select Edition 655,630 Honda Jazz X 691,452 (these are excluding the discounts if any) I fail to see how Jazz doesn't kick the rear of Liva in comparable versions. Now that due to sheer bad luck Honda is suffering because of the flood, but otherwise how exactly Liva a good car? Even our own official review states very clearly AFAIK, that while Etios engine is a gem of its class, Liva's one is not so. I wanted to like this car and to buy it. So even if I don't own it, I am a 'would be' owner that was turned off by the irrational cost cutting and pricing. Am I qualified to comment? Disclaimer: Rant limited to Petrol versions only |
() Thanks |
30th November 2011, 11:04 | #351 | ||
Team-BHP Support Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,830
Thanked: 12,251 Times
| Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints Quote:
Quote:
Let me explain. You see, Honda has always created a good impression for themselves over the years, but always associated themselves as a premium player in the market. The ONLY other premium car maker back in the late '90s was Mercedes. The City had to deal with competition like the Opel Astra (solid car with superb dynamics, but let down by expensive spares and a winding-up service-network) and the Mitsubishi Lancer (heavily under-powered and not fuel efficient either) so it wasn't hard for the City to be king. Now you've mentioned very clearly, that first impressions are lasting impressions. That's what many people feel about the Jazz. Honda killed the product by launching it at an extremely unrealistic price in the beginning. I mean, I found it value for money, because it gave us whatever a sedan offered, without the cumbersome boot sticking out and a much better mileage! So we were happy anyway. Now Honda has created a lasting impression, and it's going to be hard to shake that off. Despite the discounts, the Jazz still seems to be doing miserably. There are a few reasons for that: 1) The first impression is generally, the impression that sticks. 2) Natural Calamities conspiring against Honda :P 3) Petrol Prices. I believe, Honda would have been able to make a handsome profit if they had priced the Jazz competitively, right from the start. Because at this juncture, petrol cars rarely sell well, and people would rather buy diesels these days. So even if you price a petrol car well, the chances of it doing well are bleak. Of course, Honda is no Maruti and the Alto still sells like hot-cakes. But that's becuase it costs 2-4 lakhs. It better do well! Getting back to the Liva. When you compare the Liva petrol to the Jazz, you realize that the Honda is so much more of a quality product. Both cars come with great engines, good steering and good dynamics (handling and braking) and the Liva has the slight edge, if I may say so. But in terms of quality, the Jazz belts the Liva right out of the park. The material used in the Jazz is superb, and is of international standards, without a doubt. The Liva feels cheap on the inside, IMO. But what does it for the Liva is that Toyota badge. Even though Honda is known for fantastic reliability and great after-sales-service, Toyotas are the beginning and the end of reliability. And if you look at the sales of the Liva petrol, I'd say it isn't much different from the Jazz's sales charts. However, it's the diesel that's taking the Liva places. Honda should learn a thing or two from it's Japanese rival. | ||
(2) Thanks |
The following 2 BHPians Thank suhaas307 for this useful post: | amalji, ani_meher |
30th November 2011, 12:29 | #352 | |||||||
Senior - BHPian | Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And then the case of the rat in the car below. Could not have possibly got in via the gap in the doors, but still a concern - we see rats in engine-bay, but in the car is rare. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
| |||||||
(2) Thanks |
The following 2 BHPians Thank supremeBaleno for this useful post: | adimicra, ani_meher |
30th November 2011, 13:17 | #353 | ||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 1,640
Thanked: 3,175 Times
| Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints Quote:
2) Rattling - I've driven the car for 4000 odd kms in one month through all kinds of terrain possible for a sedan. There is absolutely no rattles. Now, that doesn't mean that all cars are like this. But, that happens to almost all cars and can be easily corrected. For the record, all Maruti cars rattle ( except maybe the Baleno ). 3) FE is still a concern for the Petrol owners. No one is objecting to that. But, many have reported that they are starting to get good mileage post 3000 kms ( the engine tuning seems to change in the ecu post 3000 ) Quote:
I see that your profile id contains "Baleno". I'm great admirer of Maruti's Baleno and still feel that it's the best car Maruti has ever designed. When I had to switch from Maruti, the first question that came to my mind was - "Why don't Maruti have a car like Baleno now?" In Etios Petrol, I found the driving characteristics in terms of power delivery very similar to the Baleno and that's what attracted me to this vehicle at first. Then once, I started checking the other factors like space, comfort, braking, safety, the Etios was ticking all the right boxes. Unfortunately, the petrol pricing was getting too high and then I had to wait for the Diesel release. I'm extremely happy with the purchasing decision and expect to keep it for atleast a decade God willing. | ||
() Thanks |
30th November 2011, 15:16 | #354 | |
Senior - BHPian | Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints ^^^ Rattles are not easy to correct. Heck at times it is tough to even identify where it comes from. Ask anyone with rattles and you would know. And this is not something that happens to all cars like you casually said or all Marutis either. I seriously dont think you have enough info about me to say whether I have the experience to judge Etios or not. And moreover for someone to point out faults in their car, they really need not pass your vetting about whether they have the right experience to judge Etios. And regarding the loyalty part, it is your blind obesiance to Toyota that stands out on this thread. Quote:
Last edited by supremeBaleno : 30th November 2011 at 15:37. | |
() Thanks |
30th November 2011, 16:03 | #355 | ||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 1,640
Thanked: 3,175 Times
| Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints Quote:
1) How many potential areas for rattles. 2) Frequency of the rattle niggle coming up 3) How noisy it gets. I've used all Maruti's except the SX4 extensively. I can say for sure that all Maruti cars except the Baleno are affected by rattles. If you feel differently, then I may have to question your intentions or your experience in testing cars. With regards to the debugging, yes it takes a bit of time, but if the potential areas are less, the frequency of workshop visit for rattle correction becomes less. With regards to Maruti, the issue is that rattle sources exist almost everywhere on the car and hence you end up with a higher frequency for rattles compared to the other brands. Personally, I don't care much on this aspect and is not a deal breaker for me. What is more important to me is the fundamentals of a car. Quote:
I've done that and I've done that before buying the car. So, I mean what I say. Quote:
I also felt your loyalty when you pulled the Swift brakes issue out of nowhere on the thread, trying your best to defend it when there is a thread on team-bhp dedicated to the Brake issues on the Swift. It might be difficult for you to accept your loyalty towards Maruti. But, it's the truth, my friend. And, I don't blame you for that because Maruti is such a great brand and shows true care for its customers. Quote:
Gear ratio Feel of the engine ( whether it feels strained or not ) Comfort at high speeds. ( read as suspensions ) The braking And the amount of money you spend on the monthly maintenance. Etios diesel has got everything spot on in that respect. During my trip from Cochin to Vellore, I was constantly cruising at 120 to 140 kmph on 4 lane roads. It was not just the engine that made me do that, but the overall performance of the car on the aspects which I've pointed out above. During the whole trip, just 2 cars passed in front of me - The Hyundai Verna CRDi and the Corolla Altis Petrol. I was able to get in front of the Verna with some relative speed build up. But, will Corolla, it was cruising at 150 kmph to 160 kmph. So, while I agree that Etios might not have the ideal engine to cruise in a relaxed manner at 160 kmph ( the max speed I've tried on the Etios is 155 kmph. I didn't want to take it further because the engine felt strained ). if 140 kmph is your forte, then this is a gem of a car. And with regards to city driving, it's a pleasure to drive it without those irritating turbo lag. Last edited by amalji : 30th November 2011 at 16:18. | ||||
() Thanks |
30th November 2011, 16:48 | #356 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 318
Thanked: 169 Times
| Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints Quote:
However, I now want to supplement a few things to your fact-finding exercise:
| |
() Thanks |
|
30th November 2011, 17:53 | #357 | ||||||
Senior - BHPian | Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints Quote:
Quote:
The problem with you all through this thread is in the line in bold above - no one can feel differently than you. If you say Etios is perfect, no one can dispute that, even if some poor sod owns an Etios and is having trouble with it. If you say all Marutis rattle, then that is the absolute truth. And hellooo, what was that about questioning my intentions and experience in testing cars ? Boss, focus on yourself - do not try to judge people you dont know. Quote:
Quote:
My exact comment was "BTW, you know, the way you say "gasket design of Etios is different from most Indian cars" is akin to saying "the brake design of the L/V versions of new Swift is just different from most Indian cars" and so there is nothing inherently wrong with the former's braking. Would we accept that lame argument ?" The last line makes it amply clear that the brakes are not acceptable. Quote:
Quote:
| ||||||
() Thanks |
30th November 2011, 18:14 | #358 | |||||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 1,640
Thanked: 3,175 Times
| Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints Quote:
Challenge open for Swift and A-star Quote:
And that's for a reason. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And yes, the trust in the ever reliable D-4D and brand Toyota allowed me to get into that conclusion. But, if you feel that that doesn't make sense, so be it. I have different algorithm running on my brain. Quote:
| |||||||
() Thanks |
30th November 2011, 19:05 | #359 | |||||
Senior - BHPian | Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
| |||||
() Thanks |
30th November 2011, 19:35 | #360 | |||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 1,640
Thanked: 3,175 Times
| Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by amalji : 30th November 2011 at 19:37. | |||||
() Thanks |