Hello everyone,
Before I start this post, a sincere thanks to the moderator 'Rehaan' who was nice enough to send me all the posts from a thread which had to be removed for certain reasons,
Secondly these are only quotes from that thread which I am trying to format as well as possible for everyone to understand it, and if something is confusing you do post, will try answer it to the best I can. As most of these itself were my answers to clear a lot of doubts of other members and some questions directed at me.
The below deals with a general matter related to premium small cars and hatches by luxury car makers like BMW / Audi & Mercedes, while a lot of news come out and without trying to be disrespectful to any auto journals / magazines they do post a lot of information which mostly has been created and / or posted only to fill pages and sell more, but Team-Bhp being a free community lot of information can be posted without any financial benefit which allows a lot of facts to come out, once again this does not mean others do not post facts but there are things where information can misguide unless well communicated.
I personally am not the best in the world for communication but will give it my best shot in this thread, If and when cars like the A / 1 / A1 come into the country do understand they will cater to a very different target audience, and while a lot of us ask questions like would these brands want to water down? Well honestly in most developed markets these cars have existed for years now and while BMW / Audi & Mercedes are premium brands, they are not exactly niche brands or brands which are exclusive or something with a limited presence they basically are in simple words " Mass market premium car " with a product mix which caters to perhaps a young college graduate and then going up the ladder with age and range of products and all are well categorized and each has it's identity of not crossing into each others territory except a few in a similar price band.
Even when these cars come to India, do not assume you will see them the way you see an i20 along the parking lots as even the basic cars will be above 15L Ex-Showroom with good enough local content, and they offer little space so for anyone thinking that a 15 lac BMW will kill all others in the segment no, it will not, the Jetta will sell as well as the others and what will happen is the 15 Lac BMW / Others will create a niche for itself but of course I do not rule out a little cross selling which is bound to happen, someone in my own family was looking for a 7 seater SUV and instead of the Fortuner went and got the X1 which I still do not understand why is it considered an SUV. (No offense to any X1 owners its a wonderful car not an SUV)
You also must understand these companies all need volumes, but they will ensure each offering is a premium offering and will never be out in the crowd the way you would perhaps see a hatchback from Hyundai, etc. They will always be charged a lot more, and those who need a bigger car will continue to drive and look for a bigger car, but once the bigger car comes in, expect them to look for the unusual, and expect a lot of cheaper variants from all the 3 big german carmakers including FWD cars from BMW, Smaller roadsters from BMW and Mercedes and do not think Audi will sit and watch they are getting equally aggressive and with Chinese markets in their clutches they have a smart drive ahead, also expect a lot of part sharing among variants so do not be too surprised when you see 3-4 similar looking cars in the showroom, they may have similar aspects but they will all offer you an experience they intend to offer you, a roadster will bring the sky on your face, and a SUV will give you a little extra ground clearance that it's platform derived roadster, but the corporate identity will continue and go even further down and integrate the design language.
I also understand we as a community love gadgets in our cars and sometimes if there are certain features missing everyone is disappointed and I have read statements like would the car makers dare to not have ACC / similar in Europe / USA, well believe me we get a lot more standard equipment in our base cars compared to those markets, yes we do pay a lot more money and some of it may not be justified by us and some may be but ultimately the choice lies with us the Consumer, but its important to get to know when these small cars arrive do expect to see some unthinkable and at that time I wish we as a community who talk about being mature are able to digest an omission of leather @ the price? Or some thing else that perhaps by then the neighbors i20 / Verna may have, So my point is do not assume that the BMW @ 15 L will have memory seats / LCDs / Nappa leather etc.
And below are the posts from the thread do read they should give you a lot better insight on the future of premium small cars / hatches and mini sedans and SUV's from the Germans.
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2012 is Important for BMW India and BMW as a whole as their new 1 and it's variants along with the new 3 the most important model for them with the 5 comes in it's new generation and goes on sale and the arrival of 3 is what is making BMW India re-think it's 1 series plans as they do not have the capacity to take care of three volume products (X1,1,3) at the same time from the same plant the way it is for now, so while the products are being thought about, I can give you few points,
1. Mini WILL launch before the 1 does.
2. BMW 3 will be a massive launch with some very special variants covering a huge price band. We might even see the 3 at Auto Expo if all goes well. It will break the segment in a huge manner, and I can assure you the C-Class facelift will have had a very short period of glory.
3. Anyone who thinks 1 is sold only due to brand, believe me have owned it and it's a wonderful car, very useful for Indian daily use needs, and considering now there is such a huge database of premium car owners who currently use an i20 / Jazz and others will definitely think getting to the 1.
4. It's very very important for us to stop comparing any car prices with prices in the US, I mean most perhaps do not know this but there are loads of cars from Germany which are cheaper in US than its own home country, and I am speaking of cars made in Germany itself and sold in US. The volumes US gives is way too good for a car maker to even think of pricing the cars like the US. We have to stop this argument, also while the cars are cheaper there a lot of standard features that make it into cars here are expensive options, I had the ML (Previous Generation) and the door pads did not even have leather,
5. The 1 when it comes will have good amount of local content and as I have said in some other thread there is a huge effort being made to try get it at a price of 16L Ex-Showroom, (Inflation excluded)
Most likely Variants will be 116i/116d and another high end variant, but do not expect all cars to have equipment levels like the 5 or similar. This may change as soon BMW also plans to have a few 3 cylinder engines, but when concrete data is out will update this.
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Quote:
Will keep my post simple to help others also,
1. Indian market has shown a lot of maturity with the X1 and it's what has made BMW / Others get more confident in their small cars, and yes it will be a slow and gradual process for the market to mature completely to issues like fabric seats and non climate control units in base car but it will build up slowly and for BMW it's important to be the benchmark and the leader of what direction to take.
In fact fabric seats were highly considered for X1 base model in India but they realized / felt people here would be more pleased with the fake leather, and I for one would have loved fabric over the rough texture of the X1 corporate edition upholstery, but this idea can be looked at for the 116i when launched?
2. Expect the 1 to be positioned at a very youthful crowd, and expect things like Apps, Idrive and various other features but do not assume this will break any benchmarks but expect it to meet every safety need and any omissions will only be in the trim levels or equipment.
Manual Transmission could be considered but only if volumes justify or else to import the transmission will make the 1 fall into the 30% tax bracket something which BMW India will avoid at all costs,
3. MINI, It was seriously considered sometime ago but due to reasons unknown the plans were put back and they wanted to focus more on their core portfolio of 5 and 3, and then of course the F10 and then the X1, now that in the last 3 years they have built their customer base and a large one in so little time they are ready to give us all a new dimensions which they will from 2012.
Mini like I said will be in India soon and much before the arrival of 1. And while a lot of reports keep cropping up, I have stayed away from rumors and avoid posting them and incase there is a time when I am not sure of it I always have made it a point to mention that.
Important point to note, Mini will be expensive so be prepared and ignore any car magazines who perhaps might lead you other wise.
4. 3 Cylinders / FWD will be a part of BMW's future, sad yes, but they are doing it and should be out soon with a base model of 1 cylinder per 500 CC, and don't worry about BMW's 3 cylinder power, they will do a wonderful job compared to anything from the VAG group, but do not forget the VAG's 1.2 TSI's are quite nice compared to the Indian polo engine and to give you an example the 1.6 L 4Cyl engine in the 118i makes 170 bhp and takes the car from 0-100 in 7.4 seconds.
3Cyl : 1500cc
4Cyl : 2000cc
6Cyl : 3000cc ..... And so on..!
The 1 is a perfect combination of a car with it's 50:50 distribution, good quality, Rear wheel drive and a great road presence.
Regards,
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I hope none here have been offended, also understand I am not at all pointing fingers at anyone personally my point of this entire post is to only pass information which will be highly important to anyone here who perhaps maybe waiting for that A-Class a lot of media since 10 years loves to print that its coming in 2 years, also do be prepared for a whole new experience, premium it will be but only ACC / Sunroofs are not about a premium car there is a lot more to it and do look at it with an open mind, I also understand a lot here may disagree completely or partially and I would love comments but do try not get aggressive and also do read it all before finding any faults as come times I have been quoted out of context and the meaning completely changes.
Lastly, I am in no way associated with any car maker, the above is mostly me sharing personal information and certain practical aspects and some concrete information, I do not gain any benefits by the above its all pure knowledge sharing and nothing else.
Typed all of the above while watching the U.S Open Finals, 3.55 AM now, 2 sets down, No sleep in sight!
Regards,