[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by lohithrao

Bharath, i think the "relaibility" aspect is over hyped and by many who may have never owned a TATA, otherday was speaking to someone and the man made a point on the relaibility and when asked if he had owned a TATA vehicle and had a bad experience for which he answered "no"

If one considers that a Sumo is not reliable then we would not have seen it flourishing in taxi segment, and we all know how the taxis are used and maintained...

And i completely subscribe to kaushic's view, CR4 has a charm...infact i can say its a very practical vehicle. one will be very happy with it if the look part is ignored.

On on looks, go for a AT tyre and maybe a nice set of alloys or the Safari rims, a nice bullbar and a set of hella will change the look drastically.

Lohit - Tata is the cheapest diesel motor one can buy and thats why its favorite among cabbies. I have seen Sumos & indicas with 75K on the odo with rickety and rattling doors and windows and "dim" instrument cluster lights etc. On the same hand, I have seen Scorpios and Innova taxis as good as new at 75K kms.

The trend has been about Tata quality and niggles. Let us wait and see if Storme will change the perception about Tata's quality.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by lohithrao

Bharath, i think the "relaibility" aspect is over hyped and by many who may have never owned a TATA, otherday was speaking to someone and the man made a point on the relaibility and when asked if he had owned a TATA vehicle and had a bad experience for which he answered "no"

If one considers that a Sumo is not reliable then we would not have seen it flourishing in taxi segment, and we all know how the taxis are used and maintained...

I think we first need to establish in clear terms what we mean by reliability. It can mean 2 things to me:
1. Whether a car breaks down in the middle of nowhere: In this aspect most modern cars are built well enough that they won't desert you provided you take average ( not even regular and good) care of the vehicle. So Tata is no stranger to this and even there cars would not break down.
2. To some like me reliability means the hassle free ownership experience. The vehicle should not present with any niggles which include a very minor noise from a loose screw to failure of ICE, spark plugs, other gadgetry and other mechanical parts. It is here that Tata scores poorly. Now I agree they have improved a lot from the past but then so has the competition. So they still need to continue working hard on this aspect.

So for me why Tata is preferred by Taxi owners:
1. The cars are relatively cheap to buy and are good on interior space.
2. You will find a mechanic and spare parts in even small places for a tata. I would rate it only next to a Maruti in this aspect.
3. The spares are not that costly so it converts into lower running costs.
4. The vehicles won't break down and the Taxi segment doesn't care much about small niggles. They just want a running car.

And before anyone jumps on my post, yes I have owned a Tata Indica in the past and currently driving a Tata Indigo in my present location.

[koushik]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Lohit - Tata is the cheapest diesel motor one can buy and thats why its favorite among cabbies. I have seen Sumos & indicas with 75K on the odo with rickety and rattling doors and windows and "dim" instrument cluster lights etc. On the same hand, I have seen Scorpios and Innova taxis as good as new at 75K kms.

The trend has been about Tata quality and niggles. Let us wait and see if Storme will change the perception about Tata's quality.

Innova taxis are good even after long use.But I do not subscribe the view that Scorpio quality and reliability is better than Tata.For rough roads Sumo is far better than Scorpio.It is more sturdy as well as more comfortable than Scorpio. Market share of Scorpio is far ahead of that of Sumo.May be some other reasons would be applicable for that ( like look, price etc etc).In short wheel base category Sumo is the first SUV on the globe which gave concept of SPACE and COMFORT and introduced third raw seats.

[Ashley Nair]

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[lohithrao]

Bharath, You are comparing a UV which costs under 6lacs to vehicle esp innova which is more then double here, anyways on your analysis it work only if a same guy who owns both Sumo and a Scorpio or a innova and all have been iused in similar terrains etc which have dome similar kms from the same person and if Sumo posses fit and finish issues compared to other two then we have a point...

On scorpio everyone knows how reliable it is and i think biggest downside of it is the ride quality, atleast i will never hire a scorpio taxi.. this is after TD'ing all the UVs/Suvs withing 10lac bracket...


I know a travel agent who has about 10 Innovas and few indigos, and all of then clocking close to a lac kms, every morning i see the driver starting the indigo in on one click and taking off and when i asked him about relaibility part he clearly mentioned that though Innova is great iterms of quality he cant use them as the indigo....

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Lohit - Tata is the cheapest diesel motor one can buy and thats why its favorite among cabbies. I have seen Sumos & indicas with 75K on the odo .

Doc, well i think its all about perception, until and unless i have owned a Innova and lived with it for long wont be able to comment if it would meet the 2nd point of yours.. however i feel buying a vehicle is kind of getting into a relationship where you should accept both good and bad qualities or be prepard to take it as it comes, in my case its the later...

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I think we first need to establish in clear terms what we mean by reliability. It can mean 2 things to me:

[koushik]

I had used Mahindra Armada from 1995 to 1998. At that time there was limited option as regards to selecting diesel SUV. The scorpio is certainly far better than that.But falls short in many aspects ( except look and price) as compared to many other SUVs in the market.Scorpio is 100% Indian product and I will be happy and take pride if it scores well.But I am yet to know why it has become exceedingly so much popular.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please avoid quoting an entire large post. It inconveniences our small screen & mobile readers.

[drsingh]

Today I looked at different cars along with my brother.both of us are 6 footers with turbans. We didnt have enough time to TD all cars,instead we decided to sit and check out driving positions and passenger seating.

Brio,swift,i10, Ritz,beat.- poor driving position with legs hitting the center consoles.or no leg room at the back after one of us found a comfy driving position .

Ertiga- very flexible, sufficient headroom. Last row unusable.

Bolero.-cramped

Quanto- very comfortable in front, poor middle row

Chevy sail - very good driving position with sufficient legroom at the back.poor headroom at the back.

We avoided TATA as we already own an indigo and wanted a change ....

Went to Tata showroom for fun.

Seating in Tata indica and vista-comfortable.

Punto-driving position best out of all hatches.

Tata safari storme- very poor driving ergonomics with steering in between my legs and less than comfortable headroom. My brother highly disappointed with his favourite ....


Tata sumo- fantastic headroom, fantastic legroom, very good driving position, airy cabin.unexpectedly low NVH.fantastic low end torque, powerful for my kind of driving. Most usable jump seats of any vehicle.

Fantastic luggage space.

Good braking.....

My brother has been pondering in silence over the events of the day!

The most suitable vehicle for our needs may turn out to be one that was most despised by him!

And he might have to become a truck driver after all!!!!!

[condor]

Originally Posted by drsingh

The most suitable vehicle for our needs may turn out to be one that was most despised by him!

And he might have to become a truck driver after all!!!!!

All that glitters is not Gold. But this Gold is not ready to glitter yet... the shine will take some time to come through.

The Gold is still going through some teething problems. I would suggest the Safari well ahead of the Gold. Or the Storme.

[dkamath]

Originally Posted by condor

All that glitters is not Gold. But this Gold is not ready to glitter yet... the shine will take some time to come through.

The Gold is still going through some teething problems.

I believe they have made some improvements in the Gold variants, like for instance, the water seepage issues inside the doors, through the glass beadings. The technician literally tried moving the rear window winding glass with both palms on either sides to verify this. And yes, it did stay put. You might want to check if these changes can fit into your Victa too.
Also, are there any apparent problems shown up in the CR4 variants, that you have heard of? I'm being told it's going good so far, in terms of reliability. The news is that Tata Motors would migrate to CR4 technology to most of it's product line, gradually. Maybe that is an assurance enough, for these engines.

[drsingh]

^^^^^ I hope its sorted out.have lived with quite a few tatas.sierra,old sumo,presently indigo. The beauty of the sumo is there are hardly any electronics to fail.like the thar. Engine was much more refined than we expected and even the sales guys made us take a TD after we told them of our 10 Lac budget and then saw us being uncomfortable in the safari storme. Will see the safari again but the only two cars we felt more comfortable in than our ageing indigo was the sumo and quanto.

[koushik]

Originally Posted by condor

All that glitters is not Gold. But this Gold is not ready to glitter yet... the shine will take some time to come through.

The Gold is still going through some teething problems. I would suggest the Safari well ahead of the Gold. Or the Storme.

Condor I am very keen to know the teething problems of Sumo Gold. May I request you to give detailed explaination on that. My taxi operator friend runs almost everyday about 300 kms in his Gold EX . He has already done over 71000 kms and the only problem he had to face was leaking of engine oil but that was soon resolved. Apart from that his vehicle has been absolutely niggle free. I agree that handling of Safari is better than Sumo for a fast driver. But I am curious to know about problems of Sumo Gold (CR4).

[condor]

Koushik, from the feedback I have, many Gold's are experiencing very early clutch wear. The leakage you mentioned is also one of the problems that other Gold's have seen.

[4x4addict]

@drsingh: There are two variants of the Sumo Gold. The DI Turbo has no/very little electronics. The CR4 common rail variant has the ECU, etcc.

[drsingh]

Originally Posted by condor

Koushik, from the feedback I have, many Gold's are experiencing very early clutch wear. The leakage you mentioned is also one of the problems that other Gold's have seen.

Looks like we'll have to get some more information about the reliability of the cr4 gold.have seen a no.of cr4 indigo çs at the garage I visit. No major complaints.

Waiting for mahindra guys to arrange a td of quanto.heard good feedback has been received by the showroom at my place....

I took the cr4 sumo and xenon xt for a test drive.the xenon was too cramped for us..

I request forum members to share whatever experience they have with the sumo gold.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by drsingh

Looks like we'll have to get some more information about the reliability of the cr4 gold.have seen a no.of cr4 indigo çs at the garage I visit. No major complaints.

Waiting for mahindra guys to arrange a td of quanto.heard good feedback has been received by the showroom at my place....

I took the cr4 sumo and xenon xt for a test drive.the xenon was too cramped for us..

I request forum members to share whatever experience they have with the sumo gold.

If you like the Sumo so much you should go ahead a buy it. It seems a niggle free vehicle as of now. Regarding Quanto, it too seems as niggle free, being based on the tried and tested Xylo platform.
Remember that both Quanto and Sumo are high body cars on small wheelbases, hence would not be as stable as other MUV/SUV which are either shorter or have longer wheelbases. As long as you understand this and drive the vehicle within limits, I am sure you would love your choice.

Regarding the Sumo, IMO it seems to run out of breath on the highways. May be its only my perception, however 70 odd bhp seems kind of inadequate to push beyond 120kmph, where the car seems to level off.