The Premier 118 NE thread

[ilangop]

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

Diffrential is from NE too? surprising! Since the differential housing on the NE has mounts for trailing arms, coil springs and panhard rod and the padmini has these for leaf springs. Are you sure about this , because getting this conversion right isnt easy for a mechanic. Unless its one of those few Nissan engined padminis that PAL made. I remember Dhabhar sir mentioning them.

Yes, the bolt pattern & housing size is the same for NE & Padmini. Only the Ratios were different. It is the whole axle that stands different. One has to disconnect the propeller shaft and rear half shafts and then unbolt the differential from the real axle and you are ready for the swap. So they are interchangable. Mr. Behram runs his Padmini with the NE differential I think.

Originally Posted by Rudra Sen

Can anyone here (especially Mumbai members) tell me if it is possible to get a new set of 118NE differential unit in Mumbai? Not the housing and axle tube assembly. If yes, where to look for and what could be the cost?
Is there in any specific shop/s in Opera House area?

In 2011, I bought a NOS differential for my NE from Shetty motors for Rs6500/-. I confirmed the availabiity by phone and asked a Mumbai based friend to make the payment at their shop (If you are outside Mumbai you can pay online and he is prompt enough in dispatching the ordered stuff by road transport). I am from Pune and have my weekly off on Sunday. Since they closed on Sundays, he was kind enough to retain the stuff at his residence in Vashi from where I collected them. Hope this helps.

[Rudra Sen]

Originally Posted by ilangop

In 2011, I bought a NOS differential for my NE from Shetty motors for Rs6500/-.

Yes, that's the name he mentioned I remember. But he said he checked out there too and they don't have it.

Anyway, let's see where it goes.

[KkVaidya]

Originally Posted by Rudra Sen

He started the engine and Padmini started with a different tone. I moved forward to see floor shift gear. Upon asking, he confirmed that engine and gearbox from 118NE.

I doubt the engine to be from the 118NE! Are you sure it was not the S1 with a tuned 1089cc engine mated to 118NE's gearbox?

The differential hum is a very common problem int he 118NE. I had to dismantle it twice but still I am not 100% satisfied. Seems like mine to needs a complete change of differential & Propeller Shaft (as there are some minor vibrations too).

[Rudra Sen]

Originally Posted by KkVaidya

I doubt the engine to be from the 118NE! Are you sure it was not the S1 with a tuned 1089cc engine mated to 118NE's gearbox?

I suspect that's not the case. He bought the car in 1998 (137D) and later changed to 118NE setup they picked up from second hand market.

The differential hum is a very common problem int he 118NE.

In his case it can be more as he's running as a taxi. Most of these guys go for patch job to save money. I doubt if he has ever done a proper overall job on this.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Rudra Sen

Can anyone here (especially Mumbai members) tell me if it is possible to get a new set of 118NE differential unit in Mumbai? Not the housing and axle tube assembly. If yes, where to look for and what could be the cost?

Today, I got into a Padmini cab to get back home. He started the engine and Padmini started with a different tone. I moved forward to see floor shift gear. Upon asking, he confirmed that engine and gearbox from 118NE.
It was butter smooth but with a typical differential hum. I asked him if he had mated Padmini differential with this setup and he said differential is also from NE.

Dear Rudra - hello to you. I saw your PM. Sorry for late reply, here goes!

Premier Padmini S1 engine introduction was done as per engineering document number RDS/90/PP/1 (Release Delete Schedule 1 of the year 1990 for the "PP" car or Premier Padmini. Inside Kurla plant, Premier Padmini was called "PP Car"). Nissan A12 engine was never introduced in production PP cars although we had completed most of the engineering work. There were major modifications to the sub-frame due to the engine sump orientation and major modifications to the steering system due to fouling of the bell housing top flange with the bell crank lever. The mechanical fuel pump was interfering with the suspension arm. However, "changes to the Padmini engine compartment dress level parts" to equip the Nissan A12 engine were introduced in production. For example, redesigned steering tie rods, offset bell crank lever and 'tengul" for the shift of the bell crank lever (depression is known as "tengul" in Marathi) were introduced in late 1996.

S1 engines had the redesigned intake ports with increased swirl, improved inertia flywheel, Mikuni carburettor with redesigned intake manifold, twin pipe exhaust system, Nissan F4W56A transmission with direct shift floor mounted gear shift lever, electric fan with cross flow radiator and 3.9:1 axle ratio.

Axle ratio and final drive details: this is a direct lift-off from the 118NE. The assembly part number is the same. It fits directly on the Padmini axle tube. All my fiats (except the ones purchased recently) run the 3.9:1 axle ratio only. It is like running an overdrive.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

PS - S1 engine is of Padmini only, this engine runs on the Mikuni carburettor, which uses the 118NE air cleaner, due to which many people open the bonnet and say that "this is NE engine". It has happened in front of me many times. I just smile to myself as it is good entertainment for me. However, as you have mentioned that your friend's taxi has the Nissan engine, it is a patch job as it is converted from the diesel car. I have seen such cars, they are indeed terribly made, with the top of the bell housing cut off!

[KkVaidya]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Axle ratio and final drive details: this is a direct lift-off from the 118NE. The assembly part number is the same. It fits directly on the Padmini axle tube. All my fiats (except the ones purchased recently) run the 3.9:1 axle ratio only. It is like running an overdrive.

Dear Behrambhai,
If we change the Axle ratio, wont that effect the odometer reading & speedometer (showing wrong speed)?

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear Kkvaidya - sorry for late reply due to extensive travelling on work. Just came back! Whew!

Your query on the steering gear of the 118NE - there is no drain in the design. You just need to remove the steering gear off the car to drain it through the filler plug. The oil grade is SAE140, the quantity is 220cc. I remember you mentioning about high steering effort. If overhauled properly, this should not be an issue but if bushes etc are replaced by a "lathewallah" (), then it will never work properly. You will get replies like "run it for some time, it will become OK" is all nonsense. Please try by increasing the worm and sector clearance slightly. The lock nut is on top of the steering gear, rotate the adjuster screw out a little bit and see but more than that it's no go. I suggest please don't get into these things at all, just change the whole thing taken off a scrapped car!

Your query on speedometer ratio for Padmini converted to 3.9:1 axle ratio - you are correct. The speedometer constant is defined as "W" value. W for Padmini with 4.3:1 axle ratio and 5.20*14 tires (due to dynamic rolling radius) = 1000. This means that 1000 turns of the speedometer cable will register as 1km and speed will be shown accordingly. Obviously, for a Padmini with 3.9:1 axle ratio, W has to reduce by 3.9/4.3*1000 = 0.906 or 0.9, means that 900 turns will show 1km, but in production we had used 0.91 due to CMVR requirement on control of speedometer calibration. For S1 cars, W again changes due to use of 155/80R14 tires with 3.9:1 axle ratio. W = what value is actually stamped on the back of speedometers or there is a sticker there.

For my cars, I don't care what it shows because my instrument clusters are in any case changed to the three round ones, speedometer cables are in any case not connected at all! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[ilangop]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Your query on the steering gear of the 118NE - there is no drain in the design. ......I suggest please don't get into these things at all, just change the whole thing taken off a scrapped car!

Your query on speedometer ratio for Padmini converted to 3.9:1 axle ratio - you are correct. The speedometer constant is defined as "W" value. ...
For my cars, I don't care what it shows because my instrument clusters are in any case changed to the three round ones, speedometer cables are in any case not connected at all! .

Sir, I did the same on my NE. My mechanic admitted that the hardness is not going to get resolved by overhauling the gearbox. Luckily he had a NE which was ready to be scrapped / sold off at some damn cheap price. So I only paid twice the labour cost (For swapping my steering box into the other car & swapping the good steering box into my car). Simultaneously replaced all Suspension & steering ball joins. And the steering is butter smooth.
If some one is so particular about vehicle speed, one can use GPS or simply a digital bicycle speedometer where you can feed in the rolling radius directly. Apart from the deviation from originality, it will serve the purpose.

[mycarhasablower]

Originally Posted by Rudra Sen

Well, he said this to me and for a moment I thought it could well be possible by someone with a positive frame of mind. My Amby differential was changed from the original to Contessa almost 20 years ago. I didn't have any point of reference then.

Well in that case , i am curious. Is the amby diff a direct fit on the contessa housing? I have a contessa, and contessa diffs are notorious for wearing out quickly so i would like to save my original diff. Plus the contessa could do with a slightly shorter final drive since 5th gear is unusable under 65kmph.

[arbj2]

Originally Posted by shineshine

Actually, the pic anjan has initially posted was indeed a maruti suzuki 800. It seems that he edited and changed the pic realizing the mistake.

Sorry for butting in like this, but I think the picture being referred to is that of a Premier 118 NE and not the Maruti SS80.

This is very clear from the badge placed at center of the grill, in the SS80 it is on one side.

Also the front part of the SS80 is slightly flat and does not taper down as shown in the PIC. Apart from these differences the headlamps are bigger than the Maruti ones. The front glass is curved on the sides unlike the SS80 which is less curved.

[shineshine]

Originally Posted by arbj2

Sorry for butting in like this, but I think the picture being referred to is that of a Premier 118 NE and not the Maruti SS80.

This is very clear from the badge placed at center of the grill, in the SS80 it is on one side.

Also the front part of the SS80 is slightly flat and does not taper down as shown in the PIC. Apart from these differences the headlamps are bigger than the Maruti ones. The front glass is curved on the sides unlike the SS80 which is less curved.

Please read my comment carefully. The picture initially he put was indeed an SS80 at 23:30. I replied him at 23:33 that he put a wrong pic. He corrected and replaced it with the correct picture at 23:38. (See the edit history in his post)

I owned an 118NE for many years and I can very well distinguish an 118NE from an SS80 on a first look itself. Sorry If I am offensive.

[KkVaidya]

Alt last got this thing for which I was looking for The 118NE Workshop Manual.

[Scarlet_Rider]

Congratulations KKVaidya!! Welcome to the Club!! The manual seems to be in excellent condition and well taken care of all these years. Is it original or a photocopy with colour copy of the first page? Keep it forever. Happy reading and learning.

Regards and Keep Revving,

Rahul Waghmare.

[KkVaidya]

The UCAL electric fuel pump has stopped throwing fuel. I tried force-feeding by filling the pipe with petrol & lifting it up for gravity feed but no success.
It emits a loud tik-tik noise. I also tried sucking petrol from the outlet side but that too did not work.
But it does throw air from the outlet so I figure some clog inside. Any ideas on how to start the flow again?

[ilangop]

Originally Posted by KkVaidya

The UCAL electric fuel pump has stopped throwing fuel. I tried force-feeding by filling the pipe with petrol & lifting it up for gravity feed but no success.
It emits a loud tik-tik noise. I also tried sucking petrol from the outlet side but that too did not work.
But it does throw air from the outlet so I figure some clog inside. Any ideas on how to start the flow again?

Hi KK,
Though I haven't faced such a problem so far, my first doubt would be "Is the fuel tank empty?". Is there a cut or crank in the hose between the tank & the pump inlet? Try another pump if you have a spare.