[pyrodrive]

Very nice discussion. I love the MT like most of the people here seem to. Maybe because many of us have been driving MT cars for decades. Maybe the new generation will prefer the AT boxes more and more as the time goes by.
AMT in the celerio and new K10 is a bridge between both worlds.I was looking at the K10 AT for my wife and although she liked the way the car shifts in the 'D' mode, I didnt quite like it. Another big factor is the cost. Gearboxes apart, the car still is only an alto, right? paying something near 5L for an alto doesnt look so VFM to me. Better cars with MT can be had at that price range. In this segment I guess people look for the VFM factor more than the driving pleasure. So maybe these people may vote for the fourth option( not worth it).
Couple of years back when I was looking at the city ivtec, i test drove both the MT and AT but i didnt like the AT again.(went with MT).I would definitely say driving pleasure over the VFM factor in that case.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by nakul0888

It is not just the DQ200 transmission that goes bust. Internationally all VW group DSG boxes were known to give problems, from the polo all the way to Audi's RS5 when used in a non optimum manner. BMW transmissions are known to give away too. I think i just read one case in this forum itself. The point is these cars are not abuse friendly like a Toyota with a manual and when used in ways other than the manufacture describes as optimum tends to go bust.

Search for "engine problems" and you would find hundreds of instances of engines going kaput. Turbos, suspensions, Electricals, anything can fail. Machines are bound to fail, and unless there is a pattern in those failures, it is but just another failure. You make it sound as if ever other DSG/DCT has been leaving people stranded. Exaggerations cannot win you arguments, sorry.

[nakul0888]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Search for "engine problems" and you would find hundreds of instances of engines going kaput. Turbos, suspensions, Electricals, anything can fail. Machines are bound to fail, and unless there is a pattern in those failures, it is but just another failure. You make it sound as if ever other DSG/DCT has been leaving people stranded. Exaggerations cannot win you arguments, sorry.

Of course machines are bound to fail. But some are bound to fail more than the others. It is a risk that some group of buyers are not willing to take. Hence a plausible reason to not buy an automatic.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by nakul0888

But some are bound to fail more than the others

Claims like this are better off if backed with data.

However, if I have to stick to truly reliable machines, I would have nothing else to look at save the M800. It wouldn't have power steering failures, since it does not have a power steering. Also, no turbo failures, no power windows going bad, no airbag module failure, no ABS failure.

Cars don't need to be so utilitarian.

[asit.kulkarni93]

I love MT. Be it any dsg/dct, Nothing can match the feel of a manual transmission. It always isn't about the power, 0-100 timings, lightning fast gearshifts.etc. But is about the feel of the drive or rather the connection with the machine, which is always better with MT. So for me it always would be MT.

But for the family use, I would rather have something like the zest amt. It is convenient and economical at the same time.

Asit

[Aston Singh]

The traffic conditions are getting horrible day by day. Mumbai is a complete freak show. Driving in suburbs, continuously keeping the clutch pressed, changing gears, it's a lot easier said than done.
Both have their pros and cons, manual as well as auto, it basically boils down to the usage of your vehicle. For someone staying in cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore and driving daily would prefer an automatic, simply because of its convenience and comfort.
I love driving around in my SX4 but when I drive my dad's automatic in Mumbai's maddening traffic, I can't stop appreciating it.

So at the end of the day, it's not about the maintenance and fuel costs that should let you decide whether you need a manual or auto. It should be what you would be comfortable in. Someone with health issues, like my father himself, will definitely prefer a vehicle that's a lot easier to drive, leaving out other factors.

[Samurai]

I had posted long back on why many don't like to buy AT.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1278186

[FanaticOnWheels]

I don't know if it is the feeling of feeling the gear stick with my own hands, or that surge of pleasure flowing through your spine every time you execute a flawless gear shift, so smooth that passengers don't realise there was a gear shift. I feel shifting gears is like talking to your car. More than incremental benefits in terms of fuel efficiency, it is more of an emotional connect that I have with the car. But we recently upgraded to an A4, so no more manual shifting on our home car for quite some time now!

[ampere]

I think its all about cost and efficiency. The west has learnt to accepted the cost vs efficiency trade-off. While in India its still in favour of efficiency. The day that line gets blurred, people will flock to AT.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by sun_king

I do not understand the mindset of some folks who just dismiss the "fun to drive" factor and bring up affordability with sweeping generalization.

Here is an example, I am kind of an artist who can do reasonably good pencil sketch of pretty much anything I wish. Now I know how a camera works and how to take a picture of the subject with a camera. Same goes with a photocopy machine or a printer. I can copy the image using a scanner or a photocopy machine. The result would be far more realistic than my attempt at being J.D. Hillberry (just one small dream) and depending on the device I used, it may have a million more colors than what graphite can give.

If someone asks me why I do the sketching, I say it's just for the fun of it. Now you can say that I have never used a printer, camera and a photocopier or that I cannot afford any of these. These may be true, but even then it does not change the fact that I love to sketch. The fun is mine to enjoy, it cannot be shared, it cannot be transferred. I guess I made my point here.

Yeah, the Activa and the Pulsar are different breeds, not to be compared in driving pleasure. But then have you wondered why there is no Enfield Bullet automatic?

PS: I don't hate the technology of the Canon EOS, it is impressive, convenient and even my kid uses it. But we still sketch!

No doubt the "fun factor" is important to a minuscule number of enthusiasts or artistically inclined folks. To further extrapolate your example, how many people use cameras to take a picture and how many try to sketch what they see? For most people, convenience wins when it comes to daily chores. Who wants to have the "fun" of adjusting the carburetor today? Who wants to wash clothes by hand? I enjoy the odd manual car too but for daily driving, an automatic wins hands down.

[sun_king]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

No doubt the "fun factor" is important to a minuscule number of enthusiasts or artistically inclined folks. To further extrapolate your example, how many people use cameras to take a picture and how many try to sketch what they see? For most people, convenience wins when it comes to daily chores. Who wants to have the "fun" of adjusting the carburetor today? Who wants to wash clothes by hand? I enjoy the odd manual car too but for daily driving, an automatic wins hands down.

By bringing in laundry and convenience you are just ignoring the point I wanted to convey. It is NOT about absolute numbers, it is about artistry. (And by the way 400+ on 21st December 2014 22:00 hrs is NOT minuscule. It is majority!)

Perhaps the gas pedal is all the interface you need with the engine. Fine, you find that fun. We, the MT enthusiasts need the clutch and control of the gear in which we want the engine to run. Try telling a rock climber that it is more convenient to be dropped at the summit by a helicopter.

Many of us have clearly mentioned that we are aware of the convenience of the AT and we willingly opt for the MT because of the control it offers over the engine and transmission. This is not about sophistication of the transmission or efforts required, it is about what we want from a vehicle. The keyword is "control" and in our own painful way that control translates to fun.

[kadanaJ]

I find myself in an interesting position as someone who loves manuals, but is considering an automatic because of worsening traffic conditions.

The main reason I love manuals if because of the performance and control they offer. Being able to slip the clutch or downshift as required makes it much easier to maneuver in traffic or overtake on the highway.

I've never owned an automatic yet, and I'm still unsure about them, but if I were to choose, the only automatic I would buy is something with the performance of a dual clutch. It's a shame Ford no longer offers the DCT (with 10 year warranty), and VW's DSG is still, in my opinion, a risky option as far as reliability is concerned.

If only we had more options :(

[AshBabu]

Originally Posted by sun_king

Perhaps the gas pedal is all the interface you need with the engine. Fine, you find that fun. We, the MT enthusiasts need the clutch and control of the gear in which we want the engine to run. Try telling a rock climber that it is more convenient to be dropped at the summit by a helicopter.

Many of us have clearly mentioned that we are aware of the convenience of the AT and we willingly opt for the MT because of the control it offers over the engine and transmission. This is not about sophistication of the transmission or efforts required, it is about what we want from a vehicle. The keyword is "control" and in our own painful way that control translates to fun.

You have expressed it correctly sun_king. I am not averse to AT. In today's city traffic they make better sense than MT version. But I think it is my heart decision rather than my mind. I would still like to drive MT because of the control and the actions it induces in me to do each time. I love to feel that my legs, hands and ears are working in sync and reacting to the events. It has become a practice that I unconsciously change gear without even looking at tachometer. I think it is same for everyone. We are so tuned to the car that we down shift or upshift automatically many times without even thinking about it.

[braindead]

I voted that I love manual transmissions. However, My vote should be more like 'I don't like auto-boxes.'
The automatic gearboxes I have driven have been so bad IMO, that even a clunky manual is better. I am open to a good automatic like the DSG if they make it reliable enough.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by sun_king

Veyron please, and NOT because of its transmission.

And why does Bugatti only come in AT these days? And not just Bugatti. Almost all the cars upwards of 30L OTR come in AT-only. Ever thought of that? Today there are virtually no sports cars/super cars with MT gear-box. Heck, there isn't even an MT option. But until early 80s all these came with MTs. Why did they move en masse to ATs? They could have as well still made MT variants. And if that were as much fun, then people would have bought, too. After all, since one takes his Ferrari out late night on near empty roads, one wouldn't mind changing gears. Whether you and I like or not, AT is future.

I personally am so sick and tired of CONSTANT clutch pumping and left hand stirring that I would rather drive a crawling 1997 Zen AT than a Swift ZDI. Incidentally, current gen DSG variants beat MT variants in pick up, FE and fun factor. What more does one need? They may cost a bit more but then you have to pay that bit extra for comfort and convenience. In the end, I would say, why push 3 buttons when 1 button does the job? May be it is fun to some, but not at all to me.