[ACM]

Originally Posted by GTO

On the other hand, when it comes to premium cars, Automatic transmissions outsell manuals by a mile. Fact is, you can't even buy most premium cars with a manual gearbox (e.g. Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc.).

I'll start with the reasons why I don't have an Automatic in my garage:

• I'm a lover of manual transmissions. Simple. Therefore, even if the dual-clutch tranny can shift gears faster than Michael Schumacher, I don't care. I love driving way too much, and the gear choosing & changing experience is way too emotional for me to hand that task over to a computer. I will always pick a manual transmission over an AT for the cars that I love to drive. Heck, I even spent 2+ months searching for a used manual transmission car in the States; believe me, it was quite a task in that automatic-dominated market.

• Equally, I wouldn't mind an Automatic transmission as a local runabout. We use the Tata Indigo for that purpose. It's time to replace the Indigo and, unfortunately, there isn't any diesel automatic hatchback / sedan in the price range we are looking at. A 7 lakh rupee diesel AT would be just perfect for the local errands that the Indigo is used for. I even created a thread on why I think Tata is one of the few manufacturers who can bring a well-priced diesel Automatic to the market : Link to thread.

GTO nice and very timely thread.

It is quite possible than in say about 7 odd years time even in India one may just not have an AT option at all in certain cars that we want. (Expecially the premium Germans - so we better get used to playing with videogames (steering mounte dflaps to change gears in an AT)

The Laura DSG has the MT mode but it is just no fun (feels like playing a video game) if one wants to go manual then it has to be totally manual.

I would have gone for the AT with eyes closed (even if unproven) for the Aria, and do have the AT on the Laura and earlier had it for 11 years on the Cielo.

The thing is that how ever much one may love a MT, when one covers 75 kms every day AT is the way to go even from a health prespective. Plus on longer drives having the option of one wife driving the car if our own legs start to cramp up after 6-7 hrs of driving or if one starts feeling sleepy adds to the +ve of an AT.

The AT options at the lower end are not too great and that adds to the pooer adoption rate.

1) A-Star - the car does not sell that well in MT spec, so in AT?
2)i10 - Good car with AT - almost like a toy, but very poor fuel effeciency with AT. Was worse with the prefacelift version, it has improved a bit now. Know atleast 3 persons with AT i10 - In all cases they were bought to that the fairer sex would be able to drive the car as well (or it was the car of the better half).
3) i20 & Jazz - Both Expensive with AT.
4) The City, Verna, Rapid, Vento, Fiesta, Scorpio all touch close to 10-12L with AT and most are AT only in Petrol.

Now with just the limited options above it is but to be expected that the masses just cannot go for AT to the extent that they would wish to.

Really wish TATA had an AT in all their models. It just would make for the most VFM AT's.

[Vid6639]

ACM, there is no AT option on the Jazz at all.

[kadurRacer]

I am actually in the market for an AT hatchback for my wife. What we are looking at is a Diesel AT hatchback but there is no option available. As a result tried out Petrol A-Star, wife was not impressed. i10 AT is a good option but low FE returned by my aunt's car, keeping me away. All other options are way too expensive for my Budget. So voted for "AT option is unavailable on my choice of car (including diesels)"

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

Well, the computer shifts the gear, not YOU. And that's the point of discussion here.

Have you driven an AT? The computer does not shift, it instructs. BUT, with my right foot, I can instruct the computer when to shift.

[humveeguy]

Hi,

It is quite a personal preference. I have owned both MT and AT. In the other world, AT is the most common thing..MT is expensive there . You see even the Ferrari, Maseratti, Reanult etc comes with AT and gives racing level performances. In US , diesel is 10% costlier than petrol, so all AT car comes in petrol primarily.

India is a going in a different direction, but one day govt has to let the diesel prices go the global way. By that time, both petrol/diesel cars will become part of history. By 2015 we will see hybrids/electric becoming viable in India too.and in 2020 it will be the most common. See, the Prius AT Hybrid from Toyota is very common in US etc and comes at 10L Rs there and it has been improving for almost 8 years, on the suv side there is ford escape hybrid. So our current cars can retire by 2020 max..

To cut it short, I think AT is good for indian city traffic , for long drives (with good roads) MT is the best. You would have seen reports, Delhi and Bangalore are most difficult places to drive in this whole world . And it is spreading to other cities also due to poor planning of cities. At a moment driver has to look at many parameters..so using an AT will reduce many of those runtime parameters.. Very very safe for family persons having small kids or babies in the car. For instance, while in a slope, the AT locks the engine and wont run down.!! in manual, the person has to fiddle with half clutch and see the road traffic also. In AT, while in slow traffic there is no need to press accelerator, just releasing brake is enough.!!

For the convenience we pay 10-20% extra in India.


hg..

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[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Have you driven an AT? The computer does not shift, it instructs. BUT, with my right foot, I can instruct the computer when to shift.

Could you please elaborate on that point?? I don't think I got that feeling in whatever AT's I've driven. How exactly does the computer 'instruct' you to shift? And how do you shift/not shift with your throttle??

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

Could you please elaborate on that point?? I don't think I got that feeling in whatever AT's I've driven. How exactly does the computer 'instruct' you to shift? And how do you shift/not shift with your throttle??

In any automatic car you can get the gearbox to shift at a lower rpm or at a higher rpm just by modulating the throttle. If you drive with a light foot the gears will shift below 2000rpm in most cases. If you drive with a heavier foot it will shift at much higher rpm's. While overtaking if you want to downshift to a lower gear just press the pedal more and the car will downshift for you. You can get the car to drive the way you want to. It's not as fun as manual but does the job.

Read this thread for more info: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...automatic.html

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

Could you please elaborate on that point?? I don't think I got that feeling in whatever AT's I've driven. How exactly does the computer 'instruct' you to shift? And how do you shift/not shift with your throttle??

No sir, I instruct the computer, via my right leg. The throttle in the AT is different from the one in the manual. It selects the gear based on how much you press the throttle. Google for "kick down".

[Guna]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

Could you please elaborate on that point?? I don't think I got that feeling in whatever AT's I've driven. How exactly does the computer 'instruct' you to shift? And how do you shift/not shift with your throttle??

Originally Posted by civic-sense

No sir, I instruct the computer, via my right leg. The throttle in the AT is different from the one in the manual. It selects the gear based on how much you press the throttle. Google for "kick down".

Further to elaborate on what civic sense mentioned:

• If you press the accelerator and hold it at that position, revs rise and up-shifting happens in some points. But if you keep pressing the accelerator pedal down, the revs rise but it holds to the gear much longer without up-shifting
• If you are pressing the accelerator gently, as the speed increases, car keeps shifting to higher gears. But if you push the pedal with little hard, the car shifts to a lower gear (sensing the urgency and need to get better torque)

[supremeBaleno]

The last car we bought (A-Star) was an automatic. We had booked an MT Estilo, but shifted to AT at the last moment considering that the 2 people who would be using the car mostly (wifey & FIL) were not very comfy with MT. I drive the car too and find it a relaxing experience, though boring at times.

Will I buy an AT ? Yes, if it is to be used in cities with heavy traffic.
No, if I plan to use it in small towns.

Maintenance-wise I dont think ATs are costly. Infact given that the AT-fluid is to be changed in our A-Star only after 1.65lakh kms or 13years, ATs look to be cheaper to maintain. Compare this to the gear-fluid we have to change every 20k kms in MT cars.

FE has been another point against AT cars. But this depends from car to car - while i10-AT users report single digit FE (7-8kmpl) in city, A*-AT users have been getting atleast (12-13kmpl) in similar usage. Honda ATs (more powerful engine) are reporting somewhere in between.

Originally Posted by humveeguy

In the other world, AT is the most common thing..MT is expensive there.

MT is always cheaper. Where is an MT version of the car costlier than the AT version ?

[indusboy]

Great thread GTO!

I stay in Bangalore and commute to the Central Business District (CBD) in prime rush hour 5 days a week. In the narrow Bangalore roads, the traffic was driving me insane.

So, I first swiped my beloved Swift ZXI, for a A-Star AT. The rationale being: it will be used only for city driving with a max of two people sitting in the car at a time. I would have loved to buy a small Diesel AT hatch, but there is/was none available. How I wish Chevy can launch a Beat Diesel AT.

I loved the AT experience so much, that next I swiped my non-city car Endeavour Manaual for a new Endy AT.

After a year, what can I say, I am now hooked on AT and can never go back to driving a manual.

[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by Guna

Further to elaborate on what civic sense mentioned:

• If you press the accelerator and hold it at that position, revs rise and up-shifting happens in some points. But if you keep pressing the accelerator pedal down, the revs rise but it holds to the gear much longer without up-shifting
• If you are pressing the accelerator gently, as the speed increases, car keeps shifting to higher gears. But if you push the pedal with little hard, the car shifts to a lower gear (sensing the urgency and need to get better torque)

That was informative.

Let's consider this scenario. You're approaching the end of a queue waiting at a traffic light and there's not much time for the lights to turn green, according to the timer.
Let's imagine I'm driving an Etios. I can ease off the throttle and move along with the traffic when it starts moving in 2nd gear, with minimal revs.
Can an i20 AT do that with right foot inputs? Would it not shift itself into 1st when i'm accelerating from a near zero speed?

[Dieseldunk]

Well my 2 cents on the discussion

The sheer fact that MT still holds the market grip is because of
(1) mileage efficiency (2) Power when you need it most (3) the feel of the gearshift --Ah!heavenly mate pure exhilaration.

Most of the discussion here is due to the comfort in the traffic overload and none was aimed at telling AT is better off than MT. In my limited dirving experience for AT in Chennai city traffic and Highway, for city it is heaven and for highway you can feel the begging of the mind for a MT badly.
One good thing on AT is that the vehicle does not move backwards in neutral unlike a MT which is too good for a crazy city traffic.

Also come to think of it racing cars still go for a MT primarily because of power and control. Moreover the AT can take a strain on the engine since auto gear functions cause higher wear and tear on engine.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Dieseldunk

Also come to think of it racing cars still go for a MT primarily because of power and control. Moreover the AT can take a strain on the engine since auto gear functions cause higher wear and tear on engine.

Absolutely not true. Formula 1 cars are automatic using paddle shifts. No clutch pedal.

AT is better for the engine than MT. AT does not let you redline the car or lug the car. In an MT you can redline till the limiter or you can be in a higher gear than the speed making the engine lug. This is very harmful to the engine. In an AT the gearbox makes sure the engine is in it's prime operating band. Smoother gearshifts and less abrupt variations in rpm are possible in an AT. In an MT when you downshift to a lower gear and don't rev match, it's puts tremendous strain on an engine with the sudden jump in rpm.

[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

That was informative.
Can an i20 AT do that with right foot inputs? Would it not shift itself into 1st when i'm accelerating from a near zero speed?

NO! The car will be in 3rd for all you know. Since your foot is off the accelerator, there is no torque requirement. So the AT will keep it in the highest possible gear where the car won't stall. You won't normally do that on a MT(for fear of snatching/lugging the engine). Also, as long as you don't floor the throttle, the car won't downshift to 1st when getting off the line.

For that matter, this happens whenever you take your foot off the accelerator eg. after finishing the fast overtaking maneuver as soon as you ease off and take your foot off the accelerator, the car automatically shifts to top gear (4th for the i20, 5th for my Civic). There are gears. Its just that the car is doing the manual labour for you.