[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

I suppose you have driven both types, so you understand the difference. From my 15 years with manuals, I don't think I can beat an autobox when it comes to shifting gears.

Also, I often find myself in a dilemma when I have to overtake, whether a heavy foot on the throttle would be enough for the overtake or a gear shift is necessary. Once you have decided to go with the former, a change in mind halfway through can be dangerous as you have to let go the throttle first. With an AT, you just have to press further, and the transmission drops a gear, the engine still firing away.

A good driver understands the capabilities of his machine. In any case its a bad idea to cut it too close.

The power output of an engine varies at different RPMs, which is why we have gears. The AT box shifts based on the logic that's preloaded in its brain. So in the hands of a poor driver an AT box reduces errors and keeps the engine at right rpms. A manual box allows the human to control the engine rpm.

If AT boxes were better for overtaking, race cars would have AT boxes and we would stop idolising race drivers as anybody can floor the throttle.

I am not debating the convenience of an AT box. Its a machine that reduces human effort. I drive one on a daily basis. But I prefer my MT car for a drive that delivers joy to the driver in me.

[AshBabu]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Also, I often find myself in a dilemma when I have to overtake, whether a heavy foot on the throttle would be enough for the overtake or a gear shift is necessary. Once you have decided to go with the former, a change in mind halfway through can be dangerous as you have to let go the throttle first. With an AT, you just have to press further, and the transmission drops a gear, the engine still firing away.

I think this is what gives one the superior feeling. You are the decider and in control and not depending on anything else. It is a split second you need to take a call and decide. A safe and experienced driver will avoid any dangerous maneuvers. I think this debate can go on but ultimately it is one's own decision.

[itsashishsharma]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

While this is indeed the way to downshift in an AT, this is what I find most odd in an AT - it makes me feel like I am doing the MT equivalent - flogging the A-pedal when in 5th gear at low speed/rpm.

Actually no. Folks who drive stick do these steps in a jiffy and it does not take any more than what it would take the auto-box to drop gears. See that Santoshbhat clarified this well.

Regarding AT vs MT :
I regularly drive an A-Star_AT and I like the convenience it provides in city traffic, though at times it feels very boring. There is this 40km stretch on NH47 that I have been doing atleast once a week for 2+ years on the AT. Normal drive, nothing to write home about, getting overtaken by even M800s etc. After a long time I did this route on an MT (a humble 2003 Alto-Lx) and boy I loved the whole drive, inspite of it being a 800cc, no-PS car - drop gears, rev & overtake even bigger cars like Swift/Dzire/Polo etc.

Ofcourse more-powered ATs might be more fun, but still personally I think the stick-shift experience is something else.

Your example doesn't say ATs are bad, you just tend to say that you need mpre control.
So how about the manual mode in an AT? If lesser number of gears is an issue, how about an AMT? Put your AMT in manual mode, and still, the same process is happening, only thing different is that your left knee will be happier. You change gear as and when you want to. Never ever you get that disconnected feeling which is typical of AT cars.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

Release the throttle : Done by right leg
Press the clutch : Done by left leg
Change the gear : Done by left hand
Press the throttle again : Done by the waiting right leg.

All this just flows for a seasoned driver. Its not as slow as typing the words out.

Its not like you are doing it one after the other. It can be done almost simultaneously. Also If you are planning an overtaking manoeuvre , in a manual you just wait behind in a lower gear and then pounce the moment you the that opening. The AT box does not let you do that. It shifts to a higher gear when you are doing the waiting and then drops down a gear or two when you floor. Precious moments are lost in this. Overtaking is always more comfortable in a manual car than an AT car.

No matter how fast you change gears, you just cannot beat the pace at which auto-transmission changes gears. Forget DSG, you cannot even beat a torque converter.

[manojkgopalan]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

No matter how fast you change gears, you just cannot beat the pace at which auto-transmission changes gears. Forget DSG, you cannot even beat a torque converter.

The world is moving/dreaming towards self driving cars. In India, the common mind set it is that automatics are expensive to maintain; no fun to drive etc. Still remember those days when people said Kinetic Honda was not good at all because it doesn't have gears. And we have seen that it went on to become a hit and all others followed. So it's just matter of time and the availability of choices.

[Graven5]

At a time when most Bhpians are rooting for manual, as per the JD Power Asia Pacific 2014 India APEAL Study 82% car owners in India want automatic transmission in their next vehicle.

Source and Link - http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...ut-apeal-study

[azeemhafiz]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

A good driver understands the capabilities of his machine. In any case its a bad idea to cut it too close.

The power output of an engine varies at different RPMs, which is why we have gears. The AT box shifts based on the logic that's preloaded in its brain. So in the hands of a poor driver an AT box reduces errors and keeps the engine at right rpms. A manual box allows the human to control the engine rpm.

If AT boxes were better for overtaking, race cars would have AT boxes and we would stop idolising race drivers as anybody can floor the throttle.

I am not debating the convenience of an AT box. Its a machine that reduces human effort. I drive one on a daily basis. But I prefer my MT car for a drive that delivers joy to the driver in me.

Get a GTI steering on your GT Tsi and you will change your mind pretty quickly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=256JWOI1KYQ

DSG gearbox with paddle-shifters is as close to Race cars that we can get. It is truly a unique combination of the best of manual world (great control and direct connected feeling to engine) and automatic (no hassle of a clutch).

I know most people rarely use paddleshifters, but the thrill and ease of on the limit cornering on a DSG equipped car with paddleshifters is hard to beat. A pure joy I discovered on fellow BHPian and good friend Robi's car on some estate roads of Kerala at 2AM. And with all the cars that I have driven after with Paddleshifters, the experience is quite pure and rewarding.

[cijo]

I have driven Manual and Auto in India (we had a 2007 Skoda Superb 2.6 L V6 TDI ) .
I don't prefer an auto tranny in India because of stop and go traffic most of the time (even in small towns). I have felt many time the auto box keep on shifting and struggling to find the exact gear ( I don't know how to explain that ).Clutch wear off very quickly and frequent brake pad change to car with auto box .
While in USA roads I prefer auto box because road are smooth with no potholes and you can even drive for 100 miles with out applying brakes . We don't have to care about fuel efficiency as petrol is cheap here (now its 2.15 $ / Gallon ) and most of the midsize cars gives avg 25-30 mpg. Longer life for clutch , transmission fluid and brakes.

[navin_v8]

Voted for manual transmission being a petrol head. I love to be in control although I know the computer cannot be beaten. I have a connection with my car and feel it while moving/changing through gears, pressing the clutch, etc. Being said that I would prefer an automatic transmission car anyday in a city like Bombay where I live. It is a pain to drive in Bombay as the congestion is growing day by day. I have also travelled to cities like Bangalore, Nashik, Pune, etc. and the situation is more or less the same everywhere. An automatic car would be my second car for city runabouts but I would pick a manual transmission car anyday for highway drives.

One very good option that has been made popular by the ubiquitous Maruti is the AMT. I am sure not many know that the AMT was first offered in India by Mitsubishi Motors in their legendary Mitsubishi Lancer in 1.8 litre Petrol INVEX avatar (this was offered some time after 2005 I guess). There were not many takers then due to Mitsubishi's limited presence and lack of marketing. For a person like me who stays in Bombay I don't want to add to the congestion by buying two cars, so a car of my choice with AMT would do the job (practical), BUT it would be hard for me to let go the manual transmission (enthusiast) .

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

No matter how fast you change gears, you just cannot beat the pace at which auto-transmission changes gears. Forget DSG, you cannot even beat a torque converter.

I never said I can beat an AT gear box in the actual act of changing a gear. My point was with respect to Civic Sense's point that overtaking is easier in an AT car compared to an MT car. In an MT car I can easily wait behind the car that I am overtaking, in the gear that I am going to accelerate. Whereas the AT car has to down shift. So not changing has got to be quicker than changing a gear, however quickly it happens.

I just took delivery of my Polo GT TSI DSG and have been driving a Torque converter AT car as well. But for overtaking I am more comfortable in my MT car for those close ones. I'll need a bigger margin of safety if I am in an AT car.

Originally Posted by azeemhafiz

Get a GTI steering on your GT Tsi and you will change your mind pretty quickly

DSG gearbox with paddle-shifters is as close to Race cars that we can get. It is truly a unique combination of the best of manual world (great control and direct connected feeling to engine) and automatic (no hassle of a clutch).

Hi Azeem. Paddle shifters are a mouth watering proposition for the GT TSI. I am sure I'll get those at some point in time. But manual mode in AT car is again coming back to manual control of gears. Nice to have that option for sure. Best of both worlds.

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

Whereas the AT car has to down shift. So not changing has got to be quicker than changing a gear, however quickly it happens.

This is something I very much agree. I haven't driven on two laned roads much but whenever I had to, I was always uncertain whether the car would be able to complete the overtake and return back to the correct lane safely. Simply because of the unpredictable behavior of the AT and that mostly the cars were driven on the speed limit.

Whereas in MT, you can downshift and stay behind the leading car and choose to accelerate when there is a space.

In AT, you have to attain the speed early to overtake and just dumping the accelerator will not help. This is where having tiptronic might help as you can manually override the system and choose to be in control.

The only part I don't like of MT is the work the left leg has to do expecially in City traffic. For that an AT cannot be beat anyday.

[chatto63]

I just bought a Honda City VX Automatic CVT, it is a pleasure to drive , very responsive , takes the headache (or do we say foot-ache )out of city drive, without giving me the feeling of driving something sluggish & less responsive. My earlier cars (all manual T0 were Maruti 800, Santro Zing & Fiat Linea and this car beats all of them in terms of ease of driving , headache free commute in city and is also a responsive fun car to drive. Would I go back to a manual drive car, the answer is an emphatic NO for me.

[Seran Manian]

I seriously thought about going for an automatic Honda City before settling for the iDtec SV (As I too had / have and will have knee issues that troubled me during drives that require more than 2 or 3 hours of Highway drive and heavy city traffic conditions). The only thing against the decision was it being offered in Petrol Models only. I sure will go for a diesel automatic only as my next choice (Certainly a reliable Automatic ).

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

In an MT car I can easily wait behind the car that I am overtaking, in the gear that I am going to accelerate.

In AT, too, when you slow down and wait behind a crawling vehicle, the gearbox downshifts and loads the appropriate gear ready for you. I see no difference.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

In AT, too, when you slow down and wait behind a crawling vehicle, the gearbox downshifts and loads the appropriate gear ready for you. I see no difference.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree then.

Most AT boxes upshift to the highest gear possible to conserve fuel. If you are coasting behind a car going at 70 to 80kph for more than 5 secs you will find the box shifting up to the highest gear. Its only when you floor the throttle that the box downshifts a couple of ratios. So to that extent it needs a bit more 'planning' to execute an overtaking manoeuvre. In my manual, I can even coast in 2nd gear behind this 70 kph car and then blast off as soon as I get the slightest of opportunities.