[mail4ajo]

Mods, I recommend we refresh the poll as this is 4 years old. We have had several new ATs come in and market sentiment/perception has changed. You will see the stats changing significantly.

[tj123]

In the last 5 years people have got exposure to automatics and more and more people are getting used to the comfort which automatic offers. After getting used to automatics a majority will never look back at manual transmission. Look at USA and other mature market trend where automatics have total dominance over manual transmission (MT).

Indian cities are getting very crowded and automatics can make ones commute a little stress free. Fuels efficiency and maintenance are no longer an issue with automatics which used to be a major deterrent for Indian market in the past. Let’s hope manufactures bring in auto variants for all cars sold in India.

I believe in next 5 years the MT/AT market share will flip and then we may have to do a poll “ why should we buy a manual transmission”.

[pamiboy]

I believe the perception of public about automatic transmissions will change once they drive one. (I for one am a convert). I foresee a significant demand for automatics /CVTs in the near future as I believe the Indian roads are better suited for automatics. The general perception of poor fuel economy for automatics are not entirely true either and in some instances the newer automatics /CVTS have better fuel economy.

[ampere]

I think pretty much all points have be made.

- A maturing market
- A mature customer who is aware of his needs
- Over burdened urban traffic
- Improved economy (Read appetite for a second car)

All the above have pushed manufacturers to introduce more and more AT product lines to India. Today ATs are still looked upon as the second car in the family. We still have some way to go, when the consumer starts to look at AT as the first option. For that to happen, market needs to mature further. And its happening continuously even as I post this.

[alpha1]

Oh my my, it was fun to read some comments like "manual transmission gives me control over the vehicle, and automatic snatches that away".

Okay fellows, how many of you are ready to buy a vehicle where you have total control over everything? Like say fuel injection. YOU determine how much fuel should be metered in, you determine how much air flow should be there, you determine the best sparking moment, you determine the best valve opening and closing timings.
You have the full control over the engine!

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Oh my my, it was fun to read some comments like "manual transmission gives me control over the vehicle, and automatic snatches that away".

Okay fellows, how many of you are ready to buy a vehicle where you have total control over everything? Like say fuel injection. YOU determine how much fuel should be metered in, you determine how much air flow should be there, you determine the best sparking moment, you determine the best valve opening and closing timings.
You have the full control over the engine!

Well said. Also, we do not have any control over traffic conditions that we see day in and day out. Most of the comments against ATs come from people who have never driven an AT or have taken a very short drive around the block and come back unimpressed. No, a 10 kM run isn't enough to form an opinion. I will cite my own example. I bought A-Star AT in 2011 with much apprehensions. What if I did not like it. That was the reason I went in and bought the cheapest AT in Indian market at that time. And true to my fears, the very second day I wondered if it was a wise decision. Years of driving MTs was hard to let go in one stroke. But....I hung on and gave it a month to sink in. And when it did, I turned into a hardcore AT fan. Now I cringe every time my F-in-Law asks me to take the wheel of his brand new but MT Alto (BTW I failed to convince him to buy AT). But as for me, never will I drive an MT car again.

[nakul0888]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Oh my my, it was fun to read some comments like "manual transmission gives me control over the vehicle, and automatic snatches that away".

Okay fellows, how many of you are ready to buy a vehicle where you have total control over everything? Like say fuel injection. YOU determine how much fuel should be metered in, you determine how much air flow should be there, you determine the best sparking moment, you determine the best valve opening and closing timings.
You have the full control over the engine!

They meant total control of driving the car not operating its mechanicals. And just so you know, they are correct.

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Oh my my, it was fun to read some comments like "manual transmission gives me control over the vehicle, and automatic snatches that away".

Okay fellows, how many of you are ready to buy a vehicle where you have total control over everything? Like say fuel injection. YOU determine how much fuel should be metered in, you determine how much air flow should be there, you determine the best sparking moment, you determine the best valve opening and closing timings.
You have the full control over the engine!

While I agree the control point has been overstated but it is true to an extent.

I wrote a comment earlier about how Brio felt powerful enough for these roads but it was searching for a gear when I wanted to put in a quick overtake.

One is left at the mercy of the transmission to decide when the power is available to you. In manual, if the engine lugs, we can downshift immediately and get going. Difficult to do it if you are not equipped with tiptronic mechanism in the Automatics we drive.

That said, it is not a problem one always faces and they will be able to work around it if they adapt themselves. The smaller engine blocks in our country also contribute to the issue. But the convenience of the Automatics is unmatched.

I drove a 4 speed 3L V6 Avalon while in the US. The downshift would give such a huge boost that it can oversee any difficult situations. Not possible here, I only got a revved engine note and stayed in the same place

[JediKnight]

Having considerable experience driving automatics that too some of the best in the world i can say that with complete conviction nothing beats a nice slick manual.

In the USA where every body is forced to drive including your grandmother the market has to adjust to the least common denominator of driving skills which is the automatic.In Europe which is more "mature" auto market than USA manuals still call the shots.

[mvadg]

Thought I'd throw in my two-paisa worth:

If you are influenced by a barrage of "fun to drive" messages all around you, you just might capitulate and buy a MT. This is what I did. I then realized that it wasn't that much fun changing gears day in and day out, especially in bumper-to-bumper traffic. This is especially painful in some cars where the gears ratios may not be suited to the type of driving you encounter on a daily basis.

This is true of the two wheelers as well, I prefer the Aviator to the Unicorn.

Occasionally, I'd like to drive the MT and feel the 'connect' but that wears off quickly.

In fact, I await the day when an autonomous version car would be available as an option. I'd just set it on 'aggressive mode' on some days.

What I don't like about the torque-converter AT is the poor mileage and the fact that this conventional AT is very difficult to repair. I think the MASS has zero experience in this area. The less said about DSG and CVT, the better.

The AMT hopefully changes all that. I wonder if tweaking the TCU will lead to smoother shifts and less jerky crawling. May be some further improvements in the transmission and the hydraulic shifter will make it near perfect. If you look at some of videos of the Google car, you'd realize that the AMT does not have all the inputs to anticipate driving conditions - this could change if all the sensors on the Google car and its software 'intelligence' were standard on cars and were used to enable the AMT do a better job; I think that day is not very far off.

The MT/AT debate would be unnecessary if the AMT came with an option for "full manual". Some enterprising hacker I'm sure will be enable just such a feature for enthusiasts - the gear changes would be done without any intervention from the TCU, essentially the AMT would be gear-change-by-wire.

My advice: Buy an AT (AMT?) and for those days you want some recreation, rent a MT car.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by nakul0888

They meant total control of driving the car not operating its mechanicals. And just so you know, they are correct.

And I am wrong in questioning them?
Gear shift manually is not operating its mechanicals?
Driver determining the petrol feed in ml/s or air intake in cuft/min is not having total control?

Where do you draw the line between "having total control" vs "operating the mechanicals"?

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

able to work around it if they adapt themselves. The smaller engine blocks in our country also contribute to the issue.

This, is the point. Adaptation.

Transmission Gearing is an unnecessary piece of mechanism, born out of limitations of an internal combustion engine (narrow and peaky torque band happening fairly high in RPM, high heating and wear and tear at high RPM). Now, it so happened that this piece of transmission was also manual.
And we got adapted to it.

If the first vehicles came with automatics, we wouldn't have comments like "I want full control".


Say there was no carb ever invented, but the driver had to twist dials on dashboard to do the fuel metering and air flow.
And imagine a crazy guy now comes up with a new invention called carburetor!

I am sure people would post the same comments like this thread:
"we don't want no gizmo to take the control away!"

###

Another similar useless device is a manually operated clutch.



Under ideal circumstances the driver should only be bothered about one thing: geographic location.
Or rather more precisely: how to maneuver in order to change the x/y/z coordinates.
That means:
steering (to change orientation)
accelerator (to increase speed, and not engine RPM) - this is a flaw currently
brake (to reduce speed)

Rest all is plain internals.

[varunanb]

After driving an Ikon for couple of years, when I was in the lookout for another car I too was very specific on only a stick and no auto. But one drive in a Civic auto with Paddle shifters changed my perception on Auto. And since then anybody who drives my car have either planned or decided their next car will be with an Auto transmission.

Last year when we went to kolli hills, with steep climbs and around 75 or 78 hairpin bends it was a breeze to drive while my friend in a swift midway wanted to exchange places with me.

Now with the increased traffic and inadequate infrastructure, an automatic transmission will ease the strain on your body and lets you enjoy driving.

Even though the market is still evolving, I believe the OEM's should focus in promoting Auto transmission with various trim levels and not restricting to just the top variant.

[CliffHanger]

From my personal experience and considering the ever increasing traffic on our roads and considering the love for driving for most of us here, I would strongly recommend AT to all of us here to save the knee joints.

As we age and as we continue to drive day in and day out in this ever increasing traffic chaos, it is definitely going to take a heavy toll on the knee joints.

My next car will definitely be an AT with preferably accelerator pedal hinged at the bottom, MTs be damned, I need my limbs to get into the car.

[nakul0888]

Originally Posted by alpha1

And I am wrong in questioning them?
Gear shift manually is not operating its mechanicals?
Driver determining the petrol feed in ml/s or air intake in cuft/min is not having total control?

Where do you draw the line between "having total control" vs "operating the mechanicals"?

This, is the point. Adaptation.

Transmission Gearing is an unnecessary piece of mechanism, born out of limitations of an internal combustion engine (narrow and peaky torque band happening fairly high in RPM, high heating and wear and tear at high RPM). Now, it so happened that this piece of transmission was also manual.
And we got adapted to it.

If the first vehicles came with automatics, we wouldn't have comments like "I want full control".


Say there was no carb ever invented, but the driver had to twist dials on dashboard to do the fuel metering and air flow.
And imagine a crazy guy now comes up with a new invention called carburetor!

I am sure people would post the same comments like this thread:
"we don't want no gizmo to take the control away!"

Another similar useless device is a manually operated clutch.

Oh I get it now, some of you just want something to get you comfortably from a to b. Fine, nothing wrong with that. Whom am I to judge other people and their likes and interests.

But for some old fashioned guys such as myself it's not all about ease of use, it's about driving the car while interacting with it as much as you can in the "present defined way" of driving. That means no controlling of air fuel mixture with knobs on dashboard.
Anybody can flip a paddle and go fast. But making a car go fast and not crash while operating a clutch pedal and a stick requires talent. It is difficult, tiresome, engaging and challenging. The fact that is hard makes mastering it a joyous accomplishment. No matter what sort of automatic you put in a car it cannot give you the same level of interaction of a manual, because there is no real clutch pedal to press with your left foot and there is no stick with gates to slot into with your left hand. This is why we blokes keep on ranting about " total control".
Yeah I hate traffic jams as much as the next guy , but that doesn't mean I am going to put off my way of love for driving.
Yes you are correct in saying that if history was written differently we might not have the current crop of manual lovers. But that didn't happen and now here we are. Nothing can be done about that. So there is kind of no use about contemplating on things that didn't happen in the past.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by nakul0888

Oh I get it now, some of you just want something to get you comfortably from a to b. Fine, nothing wrong with that. Whom am I to judge other people and their likes and interests.

But for some old fashioned guys such as myself it's not all about ease of use, it's about driving the car while interacting with it as much as you can in the "present defined way" of driving. That means no controlling of air fuel mixture with knobs on dashboard.
Anybody can flip a paddle and go fast. But making a car go fast and not crash while operating a clutch pedal and a stick requires talent. It is difficult, tiresome, engaging and challenging. The fact that is hard makes mastering it a joyous accomplishment. No matter what sort of automatic you put in a car it cannot give you the same level of interaction of a manual, because there is no real clutch pedal to press with your left foot and there is no stick with gates to slot into with your left hand. This is why we blokes keep on ranting about " total control".
Yeah I hate traffic jams as much as the next guy , but that doesn't mean I am going to put off my way of love for driving.
Yes you are correct in saying that if history was written differently we might not have the current crop of manual lovers. But that didn't happen and now here we are. Nothing can be done about that. So there is kind of no use about contemplating on things that didn't happen in the past.

You know Nakul, a few years ago I pretty much held the same notion as yours written above. Good that I didn't put that across on any forum else today I would have had to eat my words. The trouble is, big opponents of a new idea often become its biggest proponents. Once the scales tip, they go all the way down to the other side. Anyway, I agree, to each his own.