[shankar.balan]

if it is built on the Etios PLatform and is engineered to a certain price, then we will see the same kind of rantings and grumblings as the Etios has elicited from the "informed and discerning" consumers. Despite all these grumblings the blessed thing will sell here in India simply because it is Toyota!

Originally Posted by tachobells

'Unfortunately', this points to an India specific SUV built on top of Etios platform. :(

[indivic]

Originally Posted by tachobells

'Unfortunately', this points to an India specific SUV built on top of Etios platform. :(

I remember reading an article where the EFC platform already foresaw a MPV along with the hatch and sedan. I am not sure if Toyota are quick enough to turn around and make a SUV out of it.

May be Avanza based ??

[anky]

Hi Toyota its time to drop the indonesian and malayasian crap u sell here and give use some real euro/american cars at an affordable price... and while ur at it dump the dies of the etios cousins in the sea never to be found again . This is aimed at toyota and not innova lovers so please do not reply to me . No offence please .

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Same chassis with a bit of changes, same engine rebored for more power. How much is bigger wheels & higher GC going to cost anyways?

Please dont miss how much the SA model is loaded. We have got a stripped down version here in India. They have got -

6 way electrically adjustable driver's seat
side airbags
curtain airbags
vehicle stability control
Emergency brake assist
USB/Ipod connetion
HIDs

Many of these features came in the 2011 version that has been launched in SA. Which we will get in 2012 when the new TFort is launched.

Btw, what's with you constantly bashing the Fortuner? I always find it interesting when some folks 'love to hate' something without enough experience with that vehicle. I wonder about your negative passion for a vehicle that makes you go around threads putting down a vehicle with statements such as 'chassis is the same' (implying same strength or robustness) or 'Innova on stilts'. I personally couldn't care less, but I don't want lurkers or newbies to be misinformed through opinionated comments from people who have little long term ownership experience with a vehicle.

Fortuner is far similar to the Hilux than to the Innova. But I guess they are both Innova on stilts.

Anyway here is a picture to warm the heart - an 'Innova on stilts with a cut off hood at the back' carrying the Indian flag to the South Pole and back. With the same stock 3.0L D4D engine as the Fortuner's - the only change was adding extra lubricants and using jet fuel to deal with the extreme cold. Maybe this will make some folks appreciate the IMV platform vehicles and the 3.0L D4D a bit more :-)

Incidentally, the low ratio crawler gearing that was added to these Hiluxes is the same as what is there in Fortuner and Prado.

(Image courtesy of Arctic Trucks)

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

Many of these features came in the 2011 version that has been launched in SA. Which we will get in 2012 when the new TFort is launched.

And you are sure there would be no price hike along with that?

Even at the current price point, these should have been standard.

Btw, what's with you constantly bashing the Fortuner? I always find it interesting when some folks 'love to hate' something without enough experience with that vehicle. I wonder about your negative passion for a vehicle that makes you go around threads putting down a vehicle with statements such as 'chassis is the same' (implying same strength or robustness) or 'Innova on stilts'.

Infact, why not? If you have a good opinion about the Fortuner, so be it, that is not my perspective. But is it necessary that all should share the same opinion with you?

Or is it that, if I dont have a good opinion, I should not share it on a public forum? Respect individual opinions my friend & leave it to that. Dont enforce your thought on others. Thanks.

I personally couldn't care less, but I don't want lurkers or newbies to be misinformed through opinionated comments from people who have little long term ownership experience with a vehicle.

1) You know nothing about my experiences with the Fortuner, whether it is NIL or whether it is more than you. Not that I am going to justify since it is NOT required over here.

2) Nobody would get influenced by my thought. We all have brains & we dont form opinions based on other's posts.

3) Finally, I would have been happy if you had not cared.

Fortuner is far similar to the Hilux than to the Innova. But I guess they are both Innova on stilts.

Now that you have passed a comment regarding the Hilux, do you have a good enough ownership experience with the Hilux, as you earlier asked me?!

Anyway here is a picture to warm the heart - an 'Innova on stilts with a cut off hood at the back' carrying the Indian flag to the South Pole and back. With the same stock 3.0L D4D engine as the Fortuner's - the only change was adding extra lubricants and using jet fuel to deal with the extreme cold. Maybe this will make some folks appreciate the IMV platform vehicles and the 3.0L D4D a bit more :-)

GOD! Why are you doing this? What is the need to prove your point so desperately?

I have never said that the Fortuner is not a capable vehicle, have I? But I feel its not worth the money spent... Or is it that, since you own one, you cant stand anybody having a negative opinion about it? Dont try to justify your purchase buddy. Be proud about it, thats alright but dont expect everybody to go ga-ga over it!

Finally, you have your opinion & I have mine. Lets be mature & respect each other instead of this catfight.

[shankar.balan]

hey Nilanjan

I saw one of these Red Hiluxes that were used by Jeremy and the boys on their Polar Expedition - it is parked in the Beaulieu Motor Museum in the UK in the Top Gear Section - fantastic beast. But it just lies there now looking rather forlorn!

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

Anyway here is a picture to warm the heart - an 'Innova on stilts with a cut off hood at the back' carrying the Indian flag to the South Pole and back. With the same stock 3.0L D4D engine as the Fortuner's - the only change was adding extra lubricants and using jet fuel to deal with the extreme cold. Maybe this will make some folks appreciate the IMV platform vehicles and the 3.0L D4D a bit more :-)

Incidentally, the low ratio crawler gearing that was added to these Hiluxes is the same as what is there in Fortuner and Prado.

(Image courtesy of Arctic Trucks)
Attachment 850466

[mayankjha1806]

Who does not want the cars to be cheaper, heck i want the beamers to be cheaper. Its ones own individual's perception that some model/make is expensive/cheap.

I am also in the queue to request Totota to make Fortuner cheaper but i know its not gonna happen as market thinks differently. No wonder Fortuner keeps doing good-excellent numbers month over month. This moth Fortuner sales figures are better then the last month.

So for some its expensive, and for someone else its Value for Money.

As someone who bought one recently said, give me another option of a SUV of the same size/space/ruggedness/Reliable/wide A.S.S/Diesel for a lesser price i am there with my cheque book.

And i would agree there are none.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Despite all these grumblings the blessed thing will sell here in India simply because it is Toyota!

Just look at Liva + Etios numbers compared to Swift, DZire, i20, Figo, Manza and such major players. Toyota sure has a very slow start in the segment compared to the potential and target volumes they had!

If only they can hide the 'made to a cost' feeling inside the car- a cheap prized SUV has huge potential in the Indian market, where most products are now very old in the market - Bolero, Safari, Scorpio etc.

[ssh1979]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Finally, you have your opinion & I have mine. Lets be mature & respect each other instead of this catfight.

My view is this: we have little control over prices of vehicles in India. How much ever "well informed and critical" Indian consumers are, this is a fact and guess it's going to be for a while.

And my life is short. If a capable vehicle that meets my needs comes across and if I can afford one, I buy one. Else, I just forget about it.

Comparing prices across countries is not right IMO; the pay we receive, the general cost of living, fuel prices, everything is different.

While I have no problem with your view that you think the Fortuner is over-priced, I do think the authoritative way you air your opinions will create a negative image on the product. It would be better if you can mark all your opinions as only yours when reviewing and criticizing a product.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by ssh1979

While I have no problem with your view that you think the Fortuner is over-priced, I do think the authoritative way you air your opinions will create a negative image on the product. It would be better if you can mark all your opinions as only yours when reviewing and criticizing a product.

Yes my friend but is it possible that I write a comment after every post of mine that "this is purely my opinion ..."?? That is but obvious that what I am posting is my own opinion & not necessarily everyone should agree to it.

There are many reasons why I dislike the Fortuner:

1) It does not have the finesse a 25 lakh SUV should have (I do not agree that it is an off roader & hence it is fine).
2) The NVH is simply not acceptable in a vehicle of its class. By NVH, I mean engine noise, noise inside the cabin & tyre noise.
3) The interiors are simply too drab & too similar to the Innova.
4) Feature list is spartan.

I can accept the ride quality, the space is fantastic & the presence is great but is the car worth 25 lakhs? IMHO, No. I would be better off plonking some more money & buying a Santa Fe. Even though its a CBU, it feels more VFM.

The above is just my personal opinion.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

hey Nilanjan

I saw one of these Red Hiluxes that were used by Jeremy and the boys on their Polar Expedition - it is parked in the Beaulieu Motor Museum in the UK in the Top Gear Section - fantastic beast. But it just lies there now looking rather forlorn!

I would love to see and take photos one of these beasts!

Regarding that picture: more than the Hilux, it was the Indian flag and the Indian expedition that stirred my heart.

[shankar.balan]

agree that the tricolour makes a big difference!

will send you pics of that hilux - pm me your email
cheers

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I would love to see and take photos one of these beasts!

Regarding that picture: more than the Hilux, it was the Indian flag and the Indian expedition that stirred my heart.

[D4d-maniac]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Yes my friend but is it possible that I write a comment after every post of mine that "this is purely my opinion ..."?? That is but obvious that what I am posting is my own opinion & not necessarily everyone should agree to it.

There are many reasons why I dislike the Fortuner:

1) It does not have the finesse a 25 lakh SUV should have (I do not agree that it is an off roader & hence it is fine).
2) The NVH is simply not acceptable in a vehicle of its class. By NVH, I mean engine noise, noise inside the cabin & tyre noise.
3) The interiors are simply too drab & too similar to the Innova.
4) Feature list is spartan.

I can accept the ride quality, the space is fantastic & the presence is great but is the car worth 25 lakhs? IMHO, No. I would be better off plonking some more money & buying a Santa Fe. Even though its a CBU, it feels more VFM.

The above is just my personal opinion.

Although this discussion very much OT but IMHO this Fortuner bashing is totally uncalled for. You might say that the Fortuner's feature list is spartan, or the interiors are similar to the Innova but i must add that about 900-1000 customers every month since the launch in Aug 2009 cant be all that wrong. You have to live with it to find out that besides the obvious aggressive road presence, strong diesel engine and 7 seat comfort what are the plus points. The last 16 months ownership experience i have had with this beast has been wonderful. Biggest plus points being

1. Reliability and Low recurring cost of ownership. My Last Free service cost me about 2.5k. Remind of a 20 lac vehicle which has such low running cost.

2. Amount of space. I recently moved from Delhi to my hometown and the Fortuner carried it all. AC, Fridge, A Books rack, Tons and tons of books, clothes a chair with 3 adults on board , that too without a roof rack.

3. Fuel efficiency. It regularly gives me 12-13 kmpl oh highway runs.

4. Great After sales service.

5. Very relaxed Driving position. Ideal for 6ft+ people unlike Endeavour.

6. Relaxed highway cruising. Largely due to ample torque from 3.0 D4d which is a gem of an engine and ideal gear ratios.

I know these points may not seem to matter much to you but you see cars are not manufactured keeping in mind the needs of a single person in mind instead the take the general population into consideration. You always have to make some compromise and the sales figures seem to suggest that even at this price point Toyota Fortuner is just what the people of our country needed.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by D4d-maniac

But i must add that about 900-1000 customers every month since the launch in Aug 2009 cant be all that wrong. You have to live with it to find out that besides the obvious aggressive road presence, strong diesel engine and 7 seat comfort what are the plus points. The last 16 months ownership experience i have had with this beast has been wonderful. Biggest plus points being

1. Reliability and Low recurring cost of ownership. My Last Free service cost me about 2.5k. Remind of a 20 lac vehicle which has such low running cost.

2. Amount of space. I recently moved from Delhi to my hometown and the Fortuner carried it all. AC, Fridge, A Books rack, Tons and tons of books, clothes a chair with 3 adults on board , that too without a roof rack.

3. Fuel efficiency. It regularly gives me 12-13 kmpl oh highway runs.

4. Great After sales service.

5. Very relaxed Driving position. Ideal for 6ft+ people unlike Endeavour.

I know these points may not seem to matter much to you but you see cars are not manufactured keeping in mind the needs of a single person in mind instead the take the general population into consideration. You always have to make some compromise and the sales figures seem to suggest that even at this price point Toyota Fortuner is just what the people of our country needed.

Having inquired and TDed Fortuner and driven it several times, I would like to add that Fortuner is horribly overpriced. The overall comfort is better in Innova and even in Innova the under thigh support in all seats is not good. Our Baleno is better in this regards, or even the front seats of Swift/Dzire have better underthigh support. May be the seats are kept flat as the space available is much more and also vertical space is there.

900-1000 units sold, so ? IMHO, its no measure for a great product. By that standards, Alto, Dzire, Swift, i10, WAgon R, i20 are great vehicles for our market. Innova sells 4000 units almost every month at a high price point for its class.

1) Reliability. If we take into consideration cars from Maruti, almost all of them are reliable. No big feat for Fortuner to be reliable. Even the Hondas' are known to be reliable. You will still find the first generation city to be running fine on Indian roads.
Yes, Fortuner might last over 3 lakh kms. But if we take reliability, many products are reliable.

2) Yes, its a positive, but not comfort. Space is aplently ( but even the Endy has it )

3) Yes, that is a big positive. Innova levels of FE with a bigger engine and less aerodynamic body

4) That is a prerequisite nowadays.

5) I was never able to find out a good driving position. However, I will admit that I am always more comfortable finding driving positions in low slung cars that high set vehicles.

The points I am trying to convey:

A) Toyota Fortuner and Innova are overpriced. And the cost cant be only for reliability. In any modern day product, reliability is expected.

B) NO EURO NCAP RATING FOR INNOVA OR FORTUNER. The current Ford Endy is based on Ranger, which scored 2/5 in Euro NCAP in 2008. Why so ? Even small cars now have EuroNCAP rating, why not these cars ? I am eager to see how these cars perform.

c) The Rs. 12-20 lakh SUV segment is starved of good products. And almost all of them are overpriced.

Fortuner has many positives, but I dont agree that it actually that VFM. XUV500 is VFM. Even I admire Fortuner, but that cannot hide the inflated OTR price.

The above is just my view after driving Fortuner on multiple occasions. I agree that its near ideal for our roads, but the price is quite high IMHO.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

The points I am trying to convey:

A) Toyota Fortuner and Innova are overpriced. And the cost cant be only for reliability. In any modern day product, reliability is expected.

B) NO EURO NCAP RATING FOR INNOVA OR FORTUNER. The current Ford Endy is based on Ranger, which scored 2/5 in Euro NCAP in 2008. Why so ? Even small cars now have EuroNCAP rating, why not these cars ? I am eager to see how these cars perform.

c) The Rs. 12-20 lakh SUV segment is starved of good products. And almost all of them are overpriced.

Fortuner has many positives, but I dont agree that it actually that VFM. XUV500 is VFM. Even I admire Fortuner, but that cannot hide the inflated OTR price.

The above is just my view after driving Fortuner on multiple occasions. I agree that its near ideal for our roads, but the price is quite high IMHO.

Thanks. This is exactly what I am trying to say. I dont say that the Fortuner is not a good product. It is spacious, looks good, has good but horribly overpriced A.S.S. & is reliable but does that make it worth 25 lakhs?

Good point in mentioning the XUV. Lets take the XUV into consideration since it looks like the most VFM deal now.

* Looks = Fortuner wins
* Space = Fortuner wins
* Reliability = Fortuner wins
* Brand image = Fortuner wins
* Performance = XUV wins
* Ride & handling = XUV wins
* Creature comforts = XUV wins
* Safety features = XUV wins

Its a tie. But then look at the price. More than 10 lakhs difference! Does not that make the Fortuner look overpriced??? The XUV offers everything what the Fortuner does except brand value & off road ability. And for these 2 aspects, Toyota charges 10 lakhs more!

I understand if they charge more for quality & reliability, but 10 lakhs is a HUGE amount. IMHO, fortuner should have been priced at 17-18 lakhs on road at the max, considering its potential. Now Toyota is charging a premium of 6 lakhs! Why? Because Indians are ready with a justification that its a 'Toyota' & its based on the super famous Hilux. No offence to anyone.

What is so special in the Innova that toyota commands 14 lakhs for it? XUV is more refined, has more features & better performance & still available for the same price. Do we actually need to pay this much for the plastic quality & reliability?

People praise the legendary D-4D engine. Sorry to say, i dont think the engine is all that great. Performance is not that good compared to competitors, NVH is bad & when it comes to reliability, my innova's engine has always had problems of black smoke. On the other hand, my scorpio has never had any engine issues.

I have spent Rs. 25000/- in the past 3 months on my Innova. Yes, overall the car is reliable, I agree. But it is pretty expensive to maintain.

P.S.: I am also an SUV fan. I just love the Fortuner for its overall desirability. But would I spend 24 lakhs for it? NO. Should toyota drop its price by atleast 5 lakhs, I may be the first one to book it, thats how much I like the Fortuner.