[ThePunter]

Originally Posted by Soccerfan

Checked out the 2012 Linea today. Didnt find that much improvement in the plastics.
Plastic at the bottom of windshiled had started coming off (perennial problem in Linea/Punto). Also there is no ash tray/cigarette lighter now. Clutch felt very light and the GC is very good now

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

One question. I know there is plastic part at the bottom of windshield in Punto. But, there won't be any in Linea. Can you please correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah true; i had noticed this when I was scrutinizing 2012 Linea for plastic quality at Concorde last week. Previously it had never came to my notice. Linea has a gap at this place where glass goes under the bonnet metal. The joint details down below at the end of glass, I didnt check though.
So, in this case which plastic part is being talked of?

[CareFreeKid]

Fiat Fiat Fiat! The same story goes on. Why is it that India seems on the 'Ignored' list of markets for Fiat. There are soo many examples for Fiat to see. The whole automobile world is here in India now. Learn man!! Look at what a Cruze is doing for Chevy. What a i20 did for Hyundai. Vento and Polo for establishing VW brand in India. Why don't they introduce the latest and best(read engines and interiors) variants of Punto and Linea. Pricing would for sure be higher than existing ones. And let the market respond. Which I'm sure would only respond positively. People are ready to splurge a little more for that brand, and the products are world class. They need to take this risk of introducing a slightly high price but feature rich vehicle. I'm sure they can compensate for the reduced profits/car via higher sales figures.

Take the leap Fiat!

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by CareFreeKid

Fiat Fiat Fiat! The same story goes on. Why is it that India seems on the 'Ignored' list of markets for Fiat. There are soo many examples for Fiat to see. The whole automobile world is here in India now. Learn man!! Look at what a Cruze is doing for Chevy. What a i20 did for Hyundai. Vento and Polo for establishing VW brand in India. Why don't they introduce the latest and best(read engines and interiors) variants of Punto and Linea. Pricing would for sure be higher than existing ones. And let the market respond. Which I'm sure would only respond positively. People are ready to splurge a little more for that brand, and the products are world class. They need to take this risk of introducing a slightly high price but feature rich vehicle. I'm sure they can compensate for the reduced profits/car via higher sales figures.

Take the leap Fiat!

While I agree with you on the Interior Plastic quality, couldn't agree anything on the engine part and feature rich aspect . Fiat has brought in the best in class diesels and petrols (read T-Jet) to India. Polo with 3 cylinder engine costs more than that of GP 90HP which also has very less features when compared with GP. I would rather say that VW should learn from Fiat on the engines and features and Fiat should learn from VW on the plastic quality.

[rsjaurr]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

I think you've been unfairly influenced by the deep discounts that were available on Fiats earlier In isolation, the prices don't seem very high to me.

For eg: the 2012 Punto Dynamic costs 6.11L as opposed to the Swift VDI which costs 5.74L (Cochin). The price difference is about 37K in which you get ABS+EBD, rear window wiper, rear window defogger and music system. i20 CRDi Magna costs about the same as Punto Dynamic and has Auto AC - but does not have ABS+EBD or rear window wiper+washer. Polo TDI CL costs 6.23L and it lacks the same things compared to 2012 Punto Dynamic as the Swift VDI - in fact, the Polo TDI HL costs 7.16L and probably is only as loaded as the Punto Dynamic. So, what car is overpriced?

Comparison should be made between previous and current fiat cars and not with other manufacturer. Cars like i20/swift/Dzire can command some premium coz they sell in much higher number and polo is made by VW which has much more respect than Fiat not just in India.Fiat is still struggling even after so many years in India.

I also feel that refreshed fiat cars are too expensive considering the not so significant improvements they have done on both models.The better quality plastic used inside is debatable as few members have not found it better than previous models.The auto headlights and rain sensor wiper can be given a miss and wont be missed,only increase in GC and improvement in AC are good update even few will find the increased GC as dampener to their looks.Also not all features have been downshifted to lower models e.g. adjustable driver seat present in previous Linea dynamic is not present in current Linea active,there might be few more but I don't know.Also the price of previous Emotion was around 8.33 before discounts(in fact i got a quote of 7.83+Free insurance+50months RSA and other goodies in nov11) but now Linea dynamic costs 8.83 Delhi+15K in Jallandhar/Amritsar.

After all this wait and euphoria, i find Skoda Ambition at 8.43 ES Jallandhar a better buy than Linea dynamic if I can keep my emotions under control as Fiat fan.

[Speed Pujari]

I believe there can be good analytics case study on the general perception about Fiat brand (input to accenture LOL!)-

1. A low GC of Linea EP was a very big problem (sort of deal breaker) then, now a higher GC is getting 'ok' type welcome. OTOH a civic GC is sporty (even if it comes at a cost of oil sump crackings).

2. Better dynamics in fiat than any other car in segment - "who cares, whats so new about it? "

3. A Polo top end TDI HL costs higher than mid variant of Punto. "VW is a bigger brand and deserves a premium"

4. Features, features and loads of features in Fiats- "Dude! talk about the service".

5. Pathetic interior quality but not so worse than other car in segment - "MS, Hyundai have better plastics. They use better compound by 1 gm"

So I think if the mindset is rigid and concrete I don't think anything is going to change. Let us ourselves do our research before spending our hard earned moolah.

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by rsjaurr

Comparison should be made between previous and current fiat cars and not with other manufacturer. Cars like i20/swift/Dzire can command some premium coz they sell in much higher number and polo is made by VW which has much more respect than Fiat not just in India.Fiat is still struggling even after so many years in India.

I also feel that refreshed fiat cars are too expensive considering the not so significant improvements they have done on both models.The better quality plastic used inside is debatable as few members have not found it better than previous models.The auto headlights and rain sensor wiper can be given a miss and wont be missed,only increase in GC and improvement in AC are good update even few will find the increased GC as dampener to their looks.Also not all features have been downshifted to lower models e.g. adjustable driver seat present in previous Linea dynamic is not present in current Linea active,there might be few more but I don't know.Also the price of previous Emotion was around 8.33 before discounts(in fact i got a quote of 7.83+Free insurance+50months RSA and other goodies in nov11) but now Linea dynamic costs 8.83 Delhi+15K in Jallandhar/Amritsar.

After all this wait and euphoria, i find Skoda Ambition at 8.43 ES Jallandhar a better buy than Linea dynamic if I can keep my emotions under control as Fiat fan.

No offence meant mate. I couldn't agree with your view. When anyone plan to buy a new car, pricing has to be compared with the competition. Why would one compare the prices with previous editions? We all know that New Swift and the Polo are over priced. Still, we shouldn't blame them just because they sell well ? This doesn't make sense to me. I feel that the current Fiats are priced less than that of the competetion.

No manufacturer can sell cars for loss. Fiat is no exception.

Oh Yes. Skoda Ambition at 8.43 is attractive if you are ready to live without the features offered in Linea Dynamic (ACC, ABS, Airbags, etc.,).

[CareFreeKid]

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

While I agree with you on the Interior Plastic quality, couldn't agree anything on the engine part and feature rich aspect . Fiat has brought in the best in class diesels and petrols (read T-Jet) to India. Polo with 3 cylinder engine costs more than that of GP 90HP which also has very less features when compared with GP. I would rather say that VW should learn from Fiat on the engines and features and Fiat should learn from VW on the plastic quality.

I meant introduction of Evo variant in India. Likewise TJetis only for Linea. Moreover, doors to customization of models from manufacturers end, with options to choose engines/interiors/alloys should be introduced. Have a premium for all this, but at least have an option. So let the Active, Dynamic and Emotion/Emotion Pk co-exist with the optional ones.

Interiors, of course need focused effort to bring them at par with competition. Wonder why all the Italian design houses sit mum and do zilch with those poor grade plastics. Regarding the Polo I feel it has a little too high quality plastics, and a notch below can be gotten away with, in this segment, without much criticism. I site the poor interiors in the car 'cause being a design engineer, I like soothing interiors, because that's the part of the car you look and spend the most time with. It should be pleasing and likable. In case of Punto specifically, its a turn-off, in spite of the class leading suspension and rock-solid build quality.

P.S - I learnt driving on a Fiat Premier Padmini (1982 model). So I have a soft corner anyway for the brand. So it is always on my wishlist of cars to own.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by Speed Pujari

I believe there can be good analytics case study on the general perception about Fiat brand (input to accenture LOL!)-

1. A low GC of Linea EP was a very big problem (sort of deal breaker) then, now a higher GC is getting 'ok' type welcome. OTOH a civic GC is sporty (even if it comes at a cost of oil sump crackings).

2. Better dynamics in fiat than any other car in segment - "who cares, whats so new about it? "

3. A Polo top end TDI HL costs higher than mid variant of Punto. "VW is a bigger brand and deserves a premium"

4. Features, features and loads of features in Fiats- "Dude! talk about the service".

5. Pathetic interior quality but not so worse than other car in segment - "MS, Hyundai have better plastics. They use better compound by 1 gm"

So I think if the mindset is rigid and concrete I don't think anything is going to change. Let us ourselves do our research before spending our hard earned moolah.

Chevy didnt sit on their backsides - they had the same problem before they launched the Cruze. Aveo, UV-A were market duds while Spark sold OKish.

What did they do ? Took a smashing looking car, put in class leading engine making it fastest in the segment, loaded it to the grill with features, launched a 3yr fully paid cashless service package and most importantly - priced it 1L+ lower than competition.

Fiat should be learning from them - add features to Linea/Punto which are not there in any other car in same segment - Sunroof, Button Start, Auto Headlamps etc etc - bring in the 1.6MJD (current 1.3MJD makes the Punto/Lines slow coaches in the class) and undercut competition pricing by a significant value.

Otherwise, keep lamenting the fact that no one buys their car in India; how ppl in India are stupid and so on. And change your car production lines to engine production lines so that you can sell more national engines to Maruti.

[rsjaurr]

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

No offence meant mate. I couldn't agree with your view. When anyone plan to buy a new car, pricing has to be compared with the competition. Why would one compare the prices with previous editions? We all know that New Swift and the Polo are over priced. Still, we shouldn't blame them just because they sell well ? This doesn't make sense to me. I feel that the current Fiats are priced less than that of the competetion.

No manufacturer can sell cars for loss. Fiat is no exception.

Oh Yes. Skoda Ambition at 8.43 is attractive if you are ready to live without the features offered in Linea Dynamic (ACC, ABS, Airbags, etc.,).

No offense taken mate.
I'm not justifying the premium some cars command just coz these sell well and also IMO fiat cars are cheaper if we just compare features of different cars for about same price but still when fiat is trying very hard and sincerely to attract potential customers like me, they probably made few mistakes like not enough improvements on inside, doing away with 50months free RSA,extended warranty and most important keeping the price near about same to highest selling cars.

And talking about ACC,airbags and ABS, Skoda ambition has driver side airbag and ABS but not ACC which again can be missed.Other important feature missing in Ambition is elec. folding ORVM. But then can you compare the interiors of Ambition with Linea,no way,it would be insult for Skoda? Ambition has other advantages as well namely more powerful engine which is better in city as well on highways,better performance,slightly better FE and image of better brand than fiat.

[asdon]

Ha ha ha.. after reading this page the first thing came into my mind was the latest SAMSUNG Ad with Talking Tom "This is s*****, totally s*****", People are comparing VW with Fiat in India, yes Tata A.S.S is bad, but do you know where its bad? When you ask something about some malfunctioning of fiat cars, that point of time its bad, cause they don't know the answer, but they can fix the issue no doubt or if you want to modify something in fiat car, all hands will be up,"Sir your warranty will go for toss", poor guys don't tell "I don't know how to do that", there TATA is bad, but they don't steal from cars like Skoda dealers do, or lets talk about VW+Skoda, these brother sister duo don't offer free service, all are paid service. where Fiat gives free servcing upto 45000 km, and Unlimited warranty for 2 or 4 yrs, ask the Korean company or Indo-Jap company, there is a limit to KMs.

My Dear friends who are still doubtfull why Fiat does not do well in India,
here are some reasons
Their past
Marketing Strategy(Though better than a half male half female asking about breez)
Product Line
And Tata JV

You can not do about your past, but invest in future to rub it off, Fiat is doing so.
Marketing is gearing up with new ads, Cafe, different show room for Fiat cars
Product Line is still a mess
TATA JV will be off by 2015, so they are addressing some issues, so have some faith on Fiat.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by CareFreeKid

Fiat Fiat Fiat! The same story goes on. Why is it that India seems on the 'Ignored' list of markets for Fiat. There are soo many examples for Fiat to see. The whole automobile world is here in India now. Learn man!! Look at what a Cruze is doing for Chevy. What a i20 did for Hyundai. Vento and Polo for establishing VW brand in India. Why don't they introduce the latest and best(read engines and interiors) variants of Punto and Linea. Pricing would for sure be higher than existing ones. And let the market respond. Which I'm sure would only respond positively. People are ready to splurge a little more for that brand, and the products are world class. They need to take this risk of introducing a slightly high price but feature rich vehicle. I'm sure they can compensate for the reduced profits/car via higher sales figures.

Take the leap Fiat!

They introduced the T-Jet variant in India, and did the market respond? I don’t think it’s about the engines or newer models. There is a good amount mental block against Fiat. IMHO, because of Fiat’s long association with India, and that too with not-so-glamorous cars, it is considered less ‘premium’ to the newer entrants. And yes… they are adding fodder to those thoughts by stories of lackluster AS&S and related issues, and to an extent they are not marketing their products with aggression.

It’s not true that India is on the ‘ignored’ list of markets for Fiat. Their cars are the same everywhere. Folks who love these cars happily buy them knowing the so called niggles and issues. I have seen Bravo owners making similar comments about their car, but still don’t want to trade it off for anything else. Its even the same case with the expensive (and expressive) sister brand Alfa Romeo. Those cars may bleed petrol, but there is a heavy fan base. A friend who owns the old Alfa 147 once commented that imperfections make her car more human

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by CareFreeKid

I meant introduction of Evo variant in India. Likewise TJetis only for Linea. Moreover, doors to customization of models from manufacturers end, with options to choose engines/interiors/alloys should be introduced. Have a premium for all this, but at least have an option. So let the Active, Dynamic and Emotion/Emotion Pk co-exist with the optional ones.

Interiors, of course need focused effort to bring them at par with competition. Wonder why all the Italian design houses sit mum and do zilch with those poor grade plastics. Regarding the Polo I feel it has a little too high quality plastics, and a notch below can be gotten away with, in this segment, without much criticism. I site the poor interiors in the car 'cause being a design engineer, I like soothing interiors, because that's the part of the car you look and spend the most time with. It should be pleasing and likable. In case of Punto specifically, its a turn-off, in spite of the class leading suspension and rock-solid build quality.

P.S - I learnt driving on a Fiat Premier Padmini (1982 model). So I have a soft corner anyway for the brand. So it is always on my wishlist of cars to own.

More models, more options, more customization can be possible only if the manufacturer sells well. That said, currently I believe Fiat is working more towards the brand building than anything else.

Originally Posted by rsjaurr

No offense taken mate.
I'm not justifying the premium some cars command just coz these sell well and also IMO fiat cars are cheaper if we just compare features of different cars for about same price but still when fiat is trying very hard and sincerely to attract potential customers like me, they probably made few mistakes like not enough improvements on inside, doing away with 50months free RSA,extended warranty and most important keeping the price near about same to highest selling cars.

And talking about ACC,airbags and ABS, Skoda ambition has driver side airbag and ABS but not ACC which again can be missed.Other important feature missing in Ambition is elec. folding ORVM. But then can you compare the interiors of Ambition with Linea,no way,it would be insult for Skoda? Ambition has other advantages as well namely more powerful engine which is better in city as well on highways,better performance,slightly better FE and image of better brand than fiat.

We are again getting back to Interiors . I agree with you that VW interiors are better than Fiat. But, also I must say that Linea's interior is better than than of some Japanese manufacturers.

Though Vento and Rapid have edge over the outright performance, Linea is all different beast on the highway. I am saying this because I own one and I have taken her till 170 with ease.

The problem is we always search for issues in Fiat to blame Fiat. Every car has its own issues and no manufacturer is perfect as well.

Originally Posted by vb-san

A friend who owns the old Alfa 147 once commented that imperfections make her car more human

Liked this statement .

[Turbokick]

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

While I agree with you on the Interior Plastic quality, couldn't agree anything on the engine part and feature rich aspect . Fiat has brought in the best in class diesels and petrols (read T-Jet) to India. Polo with 3 cylinder engine costs more than that of GP 90HP which also has very less features when compared with GP. I would rather say that VW should learn from Fiat on the engines and features and Fiat should learn from VW on the plastic quality.

Best in class engines ?
Which car are you considering?
Linea? 1.3 MJD is least powerful car in its class when compared to Vento or Verna or even the new Fiesta is relatively better. Give me one particular area where 1.3MJD actually outshines Vento's TDi or Verna's CRDi. Maybe the fueleconomy is slightly better but that doesn't make much of a difference.

Tjet is one of the best but was genuinely late to the competition when Petrol prices were shooting up and did no favor to Linea's market performance.


Punto's MJD cannot be termed as 'Best in class' because this 'best in class' engine is shared by 3 different cars as well ! Interestingly all 3 cars came before Punto. With figo TDCi,Micra DCi and i20 CRDi in the market Punto definitely lacks anything special to offer in terms of drivetrain.

I will not talk about the petrol engines offered on Punto

[rsjaurr]

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

We are again getting back to Interiors . I agree with you that VW interiors are better than Fiat. But, also I must say that Linea's interior is better than than of some Japanese manufacturers.

Though Vento and Rapid have edge over the outright performance, Linea is all different beast on the highway. I am saying this because I own one and I have taken her till 170 with ease.

The problem is we always search for issues in Fiat to blame Fiat. Every car has its own issues and no manufacturer is perfect as well. .

But any single feature can be a big let down for a particular individual like in my case and few recent posts have even made the matter worse for me.

I am also a fiat fan and always wanted to buy a fiat car.In fact 6yrs back when i wanted to buy my 1st car it was only Palio which I had been dreaming since its launch but then went ahead with getz. Now when I again thought of fiat (Linea) the price of its middle variant has come as a mild shocker to me.The price difference between lower and mid variant is 1L but same is about 30k between mid and high end model.Not so good marketing strategy by Fiat IMO.

BTW as a fiat fan I'm satisfied with what fiat has been doing lately like opening exclusive showroom/caffe,their bye bye to Tata JV etc and it will go a long way to help them gain the confidence some customers.Talking about finding faults with fiat cars,in fact I wrote a post about same issue defending fiat cars but then once again my head (Ambition)is trying to dominate my heart(Linea).

[AdrenalinJunkie]

Finally checked out the car in person and had a short test-drive.
Will take a longer/faster test drive on Friday at 7:00 am

Some quick photos from my phone, sorry for the picture quality. I think the car looks beautiful in this new Oceanic Blue shade. The 185mm GC is hardly noticable unless one is looking for it by which i mean the car does not looked jacked up or ungainly. A tyre upsize of anything beyond 17 inches seems impossible as the tyre would surely get shredded by the wheel arches. Ride and handling seem to be as good as before but will comment on the handling part with more conviction only after Friday when I take a longer and more demanding test-drive. The ride is definetely as flat as before, coz I put this blue lady through some hellish terrain and came out with a huge grin plastered on my face!!!

The steering column is better put together now, but still a few rough edges are present. I found no panel gaps in the exteriors but the interiors still dont give a premium feel. The fuel lid release lever feels like it could be broken by a child!!

The AC is better as reported by many others but is quite noisy. Fiat has added some more insulation to the engine bay to improve NVH levels and it helps to a certain degree. I even tested out the AUTO - rain sensing wipers which work though i hardly found it to be wow add-on. Besides it is available on every variant. The sensor is located right behind the rear view mirror.

More photos and views on friday after a thorough test-drive. In the mean time i would be happy to answer any questions about the car, as i did spend a considerable amount of time with it.