[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic

All you are doing is calling others statements uncalled for and baseless where as the grounds on which you went out to check the Punto were baseless in it self!

What is that supposed to mean? (highlighted part in bold)

Mr. Enigmatic, first things first, don't get personal, we are discussing cars here. Not about your attitude or mine. Let any mod say that my very first post on this thread is biased/false/unfit and then I would eat my words. Till then, I stand by my words.

• Plastics are hard and poorly fitted,
• Dealer attitude was bad (I requested a TD and was made to stand for almost half an hour and the Sales guy did not even bother returning to me) and
• Panels were ill-fitted. (Got pics to prove for two of the above points)

I agree Fiat needs to improve in a lot of areas , one of many is its A.S.S and dealership experience as well , however completely declining the Punto based on Dealer attitude ,Improper fit and finish and poor plastics is not correct.

This is exactly the point I made. Where did you see me completely declining the Punto, by the way? Can you fish me out that post of mine? Thanks!

You of all people should know that punto is the best drivers car in its segment . Im surprised that you didn't mention a word about its driving dynamics considering that you claim to be a "fan" of the punto ..

Well, you now seem to be a hardcore 'FAN'. In the city, not much dynamic with its long wheelbase, on the highway, brilliant, accepted. Why can't Fiat fans just take criticism about what Fiat is still doing wrong? All of you FIAT fans who are flaming me, pick out one point from the three I made that is invalid. Let me see.

Moreover saying that i dont give a " rats bottom " about how many cars cliffhanger has and other such stuff is a bit too uncalled for .

I stand by it. Nobody is interested in knowing how many Puntos any Tom, Dick, Harry owns.

Don't forget , you are allowed to express your opinion about a car on a public forum , but you should remember that opinions are criticized as well !

Yeah, right!

BTW, i apologize for hurting the sentiments of the mechanic/technical community here. People here have used that term for incompetent A.S.S people who screw up cars, and I used it in a similar fashion. Apologies anyway.

@Crazy Driver : The Punto 75HP Emotion costs as much as a Swift ZDi in Chennai. 7.8 L OTR.

[prkothan]

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : We do NOT permit any posts that are blindly biased in favour of a brand. Keeping your contribution objective is key to forum participation.

We advise you to keep your posts extremely neutral going forward.

[greatpower]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

How do I know? My Palio MJD has not a single rattle so far. As of today, my odometer reads 66002 km.

I agree. My 7 years/70 K old Palio 1.2 is an absolute delight to drive. The interiors are firmly put together and there are no rattles. The engine runs better now than ever with a sweet exhaust note.

Punto 2012 interiors aren't that bad - they are not in the same league as a Polo or Fabia, but just one look at the Punto's steering and you can't look anywhere else

[architect]

Originally Posted by greatpower

I agree. My 7 years/70 K old Palio 1.2 is an absolute delight to drive. The interiors are firmly put together and there are no rattles. The engine runs better now than ever with a sweet exhaust note.

I wish I could say the same about my Palio Stile. But the ICE rattles (loudly) and door beadings / seat springs etc squeak and rattle as well. It is true that the car has received quite a battering on Indian highways, but still I had not expected this out of my Palio.

[Enigmatic]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

What is that supposed to mean? (highlighted part in bold)

Mr. Enigmatic, first things first, don't get personal, we are discussing cars here. Not about your attitude or mine. Let any mod say that my very first post on this thread is biased/false/unfit and then I would eat my words. Till then, I stand by my words.

• Plastics are hard and poorly fitted,
• Dealer attitude was bad (I requested a TD and was made to stand for almost half an hour and the Sales guy did not even bother returning to me) and
• Panels were ill-fitted. (Got pics to prove for two of the above points)

I shall try to answer what ever you have stated without going O.T.

First of all i am not getting personal , however if you want i can quote you as to how many times you have been personal and remarked against Fiat fans in the following ways :-

1) All you staunch FIATians should get a life.
2) I narrated my experience, and you FIATians just cannot take the fact! Dear Lord!.

Moreover you went personal by making comments on people who were sharing their experience of their Fiat Cars by commenting on CliffHangers experience.

The grounds on which you bashed the punto 2012 are :-
1) Plastics are hard and poorly fitted :- The car you checked out was a Test drive vehicle , which as we all know are used roughly and hence you might have found the plastics to be poorly fitted .

About the plastics being Hard , every manufacturer prefers a certain kind of plastic . Some prefer smooth and soft touch plastic and some prefer Hard plastic that last the tide . As you are comparing the punto with the swift , please explain how good are the plastic used in the Swift .
As GTO had himself stated that Swifts and Dezires are prone to rattles and in some cases have developed rattles even before they have hit 5 figures on their Odometer!!
So what do you prefer soft plastics that rattle and make your life miserable or hard plastics that last the tide of time ??

2) Dealer Attitude was bad :-

Again it varies from dealer to dealer . Some find it good others dont . Many people have reported that the dealer attitude of many Maruti dealers was bad as well . I think its more subjective a comparison .

3) Panels were ill-fitted :-

Which company are you comparing the panel gaps to ?? Maruti and other manufacturers also have panel gaps .

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

This is exactly the point I made. Where did you see me completely declining the Punto, by the way? Can you fish me out that post of mine? Thanks!

Well, you now seem to be a hardcore 'FAN'. In the city, not much dynamic with its long wheelbase, on the highway, brilliant, accepted. Why can't Fiat fans just take criticism about what Fiat is still doing wrong? All of you FIAT fans who are flaming me, pick out one point from the three I made that is invalid. Let me see.

I am a "FAN" of a car that drives well !
And im sorry but " its not that dynamic in the city due to its "LONG WHEELBASE "" ?? Are you serious?? What is the relation that you derive between wheelbase and not being dynamic in the city ?? Puntos wheelbase is 2510 mm .. As per your logic , all fast dynamic sports cars should be the size of a Fiat 500 then??

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

I stand by it. Nobody is interested in knowing how many Puntos any Tom, Dick, Harry owns.

Again let me remind you this is a public forum , and you might not be interested in knowing how many cars Tom , Dick and Harry own but this does not mean that others are not . And you go on to state "hangercliff, I don't give a rat's rear to how many Puntos you own" .

Mods:- I had no intention of going Off topic , however a car should be bashed on substantial grounds and not subjective parameters and hence the O.T. nature of the post .

[greatpower]

Originally Posted by architect

I wish I could say the same about my Palio Stile. But the ICE rattles (loudly) and door beadings / seat springs etc squeak and rattle as well. It is true that the car has received quite a battering on Indian highways, but still I had not expected this out of my Palio.

Offtopic - I too observed seat squeaks, which were easily fixed by some grease / machine oil on the seat hinges. I may be wrong, but I feel the older Gen Palios were probably better build than the Stile

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by F150

Guys,

The thread is over 51 pages, and I am unable to locate a post which compares the old model to the new model in terms of the updates made.

Please guide me to the post which has these pics.

Mods.

Can the thread title be updated to have the page number where the above info is available ?

Here you go mate.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2637347

Read the posts from here. Its the report after our TD of Linea 2012.

[DRIV3R]

Dear Enigmatic buddy, I will try and explain things again, for you to understand.

Originally Posted by Enigmatic

The grounds on which you bashed the punto 2012 are :-
1) Plastics are hard and poorly fitted :- The car you checked out was a Test drive vehicle , which as we all know are used roughly and hence you might have found the plastics to be poorly fitted .

The car was not even 20 days old, brand new, Jan 2012 manufactured. Leave alone interior plastics, I have posted a pic where the plastic part between the hood and windscreen has lifted up and grayed so soon. Even Indicas have them intact. Please refer to the pic and come back again.

About the plastics being Hard , every manufacturer prefers a certain kind of plastic . Some prefer smooth and soft touch plastic and some prefer Hard plastic that last the tide . As you are comparing the punto with the swift , please explain how good are the plastic used in the Swift .

The new Swift has far better interior plastic than the Punto. Go check our very own official review. About the old Swift, I really cannot give an opinion.

As GTO had himself stated that Swifts and Dezires are prone to rattles and in some cases have developed rattles even before they have hit 5 figures on their Odometer!!

This was with regards to the old Swift. Get your facts right, kid.

So what do you prefer soft plastics that rattle and make your life miserable or hard plastics that last the tide of time ??

Last the tide of time or probably fall off?

2) Dealer Attitude was bad :-

Again it varies from dealer to dealer . Some find it good others dont . Many people have reported that the dealer attitude of many Maruti dealers was bad as well . I think its more subjective a comparison .

Go back to one of my previous replies, I have clearly mentioned that Maruti is no God either, there are dissatisfied Maruti customers as well. But overall, Maruti is having a much better and competent A.S.S and easy availability of spares. Period.

3) Panels were ill-fitted :-

Which company are you comparing the panel gaps to ?? Maruti and other manufacturers also have panel gaps .

I suppose you know what a fender is. Refer to my pic and check the level at which the front fender is and the level at which the front door is. They are not on the same line. Nobody spoke a word about panel gaps here. Don't get me started.

I am a "FAN" of a car that drives well !

Good for you!

I am a fan of cars that drive well, and that which have good service backup, and decent interior quality.

And im sorry but " its not that dynamic in the city due to its "LONG WHEELBASE "" ?? Are you serious?? What is the relation that you derive between wheelbase and not being dynamic in the city ?? Puntos wheelbase is 2510 mm .. As per your logic , all fast dynamic sports cars should be the size of a Fiat 500 then??

So as per your ground breaking conclusion, the Punto is a fast dynamic sports car?

LOL. People like you really spoil the standards of this forum. A larger wheelbase would mean a longer turning radius. A longer turning radius would mean more 3 point turns, which is a pain in cities and I exactly meant that. The Swift is more fun to drive, be it within the city or the highway. The Punto is a highway star, has a perfectly weighted hydraulic steering, well sorted out ride, feels like a tank and that's about it.

[rameshnanda]

@ Driv3r

Dear Driver,

Got so tired after reading the last couple of pages. Interior fit and finish's on Punto's and Linea's is well known and there is no point in debating this again and again. What I can say is that the plastics are not bad at all and there is improvement to Fit and Finish when compared to the 2011 models. That is it. The panel gaps are still visible and there is more scope for improvement with respect to fit and finish of interiors. But, this (fit and finish) definitely will not be a deciding factor for me when I plan to buy a new car. I have my own priorities. You should probably list down your priorities and take a call. If the plastics, fit and finish is your foremost priority you should reject the Punto outright. I think we should rest these arguments and debate now .

Note:- When I like and decide on a car and if the dealers attitude is not good, I always go to a different dealer and not switch to another car for this reason.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

The new Swift has far better interior plastic than the Punto. Go check our very own official review.

Please don't put your words in GTO's mouth:

It’s on the inside where you will really notice the improvement. Compared to the bare bones interior of the older car, that of the new Swift feel decidedly superior. The overall grade of plastic is only ½ a level up; it's the design & the way that they've been screwed together that is a step in the right direction. Except for the gear lever, lousy power window switches (which look completely out of place in this car BTW) and some other buttons (like the one for the fog lamps), there is nothing that the new Swift has in common with the old. While the Swift still isn’t exactly premium, overall look & feel are considerably better now. I really liked the generous use of silver accents all over the inside, and how they break the sea of black monotony. The textured plastic on the dashboard & door panels is a nice touch, as are the chrome door handles. The center console wears a Kizashi inspiration, while the 3 spoke steering wheel looks great. Don’t get me wrong though, there’s no Fabia-style premiumness or even quality that’s equivalent to the Polo or i10. The interiors do have some cheap bits (seat adjust handle, for instance), but that is expected from a Maruti in this segment. Let me put it this way : Those who buy the entry-level petrol @ 4.22 lakhs will be pleased with the quality. On the other hand, ZDi owners who pay 7.5 lakhs OTR for their diesel Swift will not be raving about the quality, as i20 owners do

I don't see any ringing endorement of the Swift's plastic quality in the review as you are making out - in fact, the opposite is said about the quality available on the ZDi. And certainly no suggestion that they are better than Puntos (they might well be).

[Enigmatic]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

Dear Enigmatic buddy, I will try and explain things again, for you to understand.


This was with regards to the old Swift. Get your facts right, kid.


Last the tide of time or probably fall off?

Well "uncle" parts falling of a punto ?? You really have done your research for sure ..

For the record ,i have two Puntos in the family one dynamic and one emotion . And let me tell you , they have done well over 70000km's on the clock in a span of under 2 and a half years and there is not a squeak nor a rattle let alone parts falling of !!

Go back to one of my previous replies, I have clearly mentioned that Maruti is no God either, there are dissatisfied Maruti customers as well. But overall, Maruti is having a much better and competent A.S.S and easy availability of spares. Period.

Please refer back to my original post as well where i have clearly stated that Fiat does need to improve in terms of A.S.S . So why bring up this question once again ??

I suppose you know what a fender is. Refer to my pic and check the level at which the front fender is and the level at which the front door is. They are not on the same line. Nobody spoke a word about panel gaps here. Don't get me started.

Oh i don't want you to get started with another comparison between how bad Fiat is and how good Maruti is .

Good for you!

I am a fan of cars that drive well, and that which have good service backup, and decent interior quality.

So as per your ground breaking conclusion, the Punto is a fast dynamic sports car?

LOL. People like you really spoil the standards of this forum. A larger wheelbase would mean a longer turning radius. A longer turning radius would mean more 3 point turns, which is a pain in cities and I exactly meant that. The Swift is more fun to drive, be it within the city or the highway. The Punto is a highway star, has a perfectly weighted hydraulic steering, well sorted out ride, feels like a tank and that's about it.

Now you are taking it too far mate and then you Talk about getting personal !! Ironical actually

I never stated that the punto is a fast dynamic sports car , however if you can find that in any of my posts feel free to point it out .

Also how can you relate 3 point turns with the dynamic ability of a car is way beyond any reasonable understanding !.

[Thilak29]

Guys,

If some body wants to find the loop holes, Yes they can find the faults at any point of time in any product!!!

I am telling it on general basis as Indians are very good in free suggestinos and lecturing with out the hands on experience.

How many people know the FIAT engines are serving in MS-Swift, Ritz and SX4 ?? It's like going by the mass appeal many people buy Maruti cars (Even I was a proud owner of Zen)

Currently driving (my brother's) Swift Petrol Lxi variant after selling my zen. I can say the fit and finish is not worth the money we are paying for it. It has crossed 10169 kms ratteling issues have started.(10k service is due!!)

Apart from the RNS motors I have not experienced a good " attitude " from any other dealer. I am sincere customer of MS from a decade(Zen, Sx4-Zxi)!!

Now decide to change the loyalty by going to TATA(Fiat was never in mind ), Took the test drive of Tata-Indica n Manza (again fiat engine!!)

Later took the test drive of FIAT Punto n Linea (we have a national animal, a national bird even a national symbol now a national engine ??? I can say it!!)

The dealer experience was same as I used to get in Maruti for both the products (Tata n Fiat)

After the test drive of Tata indica vista , Manza and Punto decided to test drive Swift (Loyalty!!!) But got the feeling as Swfit n Indica Vista might start to rattle after 10 to 15k milage.

But where as in case of Punto didn't get the same feeling , their finish may be bad but I gain the confidence it doesn't rattles as my brother swift does!!!

I accept the panel gaps in punto but does any body observed how the swift door makes the sound when we close it ?? glasses will shake like in my old zen same in the current swift as well.

So decided to drive Punto after a loyal customer of MS for a decade!!

Mods : I am not going Off topic I have just narrated my experience with both the cars I have driven .

[sharadmumbai]

Pls correct your information. Figo also has bluetooth on the highest versions with steering mounted control.

Also, while i don't agree with DRIV3R use of words in some posts(monkey/etc), but I don't see a reason why everybody got after him after his first post where he expressed his views. Just because he dared to put his views against Punto?
While everyone else has been calling swift and MSIL's buyers as sheep mentality/etc?
If Swift was so bad, then why still its selling so much?
In the case of National Engine, why couldn't fiat themselves rake in much higher numbers and now Vista is also not been able to get anywhere close?
I have nothing against/for either of these cars as i own/drive none of them.
I feel that we need to respect others reason for liking and buying a car and accept they may not be same as yours.

[carwatcher]

Though I have not read the agreement between Tata and Fiat personally, but I wish to know as to what are the exact details regarding manufacturing as I read somewhere its mentioned by GTO that Tata manufacture atleast 50% of each Fiat's car in their plant.
So not offending anyone, but I really need to know that does it have a bearing on sub-par fit and finish and panel gaps and also dealer attitude. I have first hand experience of calling 3-4 different Tata-Fiat dealers on the same day and when asked about Fiat, the receptionist told just hold on and after sometime simply disconnected the phone or asked my number and told me we will call you back and those calls never came. Its as simple as that. What I mean to say is you have to be mentally prepared in advance if you are going for Fiat cars. I will post more on this after sometime soon.
Similarly, there are two category of Fiat lovers, one who became Fan first, then customers and secondly who want to become customers first and then a true fan. Trust me the journey for second category is full of thorns.
But who is responsible for that is hard to determine.
PS: My comments posted on Thread 'Which is the Hottest car on Forum' are proved correct after reading the last two pages.

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by sharadmumbai

Pls correct your information. Figo also has bluetooth on the highest versions with steering mounted control.

You are right that Figo has got bluetooth but Fiat's blue&me is more than that. One need to experience it to know it.

For your information, there are no Steering mounted controls on Figo.

Originally Posted by sharadmumbai

If Swift was so bad, then why still its selling so much?

Not at all. Swift is not bad at all. It is good car and selling great because of Maruti's reliability. But, the new Swift is indeed overpriced and is much over hyped as well .