[bejoy]

New commercial from Fiat India

FIAT technological advancements over the years - YouTube

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by Turbokick

Best in class engines ?
Which car are you considering?
Linea? 1.3 MJD is least powerful car in its class when compared to Vento or Verna or even the new Fiesta is relatively better. Give me one particular area where 1.3MJD actually outshines Vento's TDi or Verna's CRDi. Maybe the fueleconomy is slightly better but that doesn't make much of a difference.

Tjet is one of the best but was genuinely late to the competition when Petrol prices were shooting up and did no favor to Linea's market performance.


Punto's MJD cannot be termed as 'Best in class' because this 'best in class' engine is shared by 3 different cars as well ! Interestingly all 3 cars came before Punto. With figo TDCi,Micra DCi and i20 CRDi in the market Punto definitely lacks anything special to offer in terms of drivetrain.

I will not talk about the petrol engines offered on Punto

I said BEST not the most powerful engine. What is your point actually? Do you mean to say that MJD is not the best just because it is shared among multiple cars? If so, it will showcase your ignorance. Have a look at the video on the previous post.

There are multiple points on which Linea can outshine Vento/Verna.
Dynamics, Ride and Handling, Steering. Sit with me in my Linea on a highway and I will show you the MJD's performance .

Originally Posted by rsjaurr

But any single feature can be a big let down for a particular individual like in my case and few recent posts have even made the matter worse for me.

I am also a fiat fan and always wanted to buy a fiat car.In fact 6yrs back when i wanted to buy my 1st car it was only Palio which I had been dreaming since its launch but then went ahead with getz. Now when I again thought of fiat (Linea) the price of its middle variant has come as a mild shocker to me.The price difference between lower and mid variant is 1L but same is about 30k between mid and high end model.Not so good marketing strategy by Fiat IMO.

BTW as a fiat fan I'm satisfied with what fiat has been doing lately like opening exclusive showroom/caffe,their bye bye to Tata JV etc and it will go a long way to help them gain the confidence some customers.Talking about finding faults with fiat cars,in fact I wrote a post about same issue defending fiat cars but then once again my head (Ambition)is trying to dominate my heart(Linea).

Wait for 2 months and the discounts will be back. I am sure that you can get the car at least 50K less than what is being quoted now.

I have also owned Getz from 2006 to 2010 .

[k_ajay]

Originally Posted by CareFreeKid

Fiat Fiat Fiat! The same story goes on. Why is it that India seems on the 'Ignored' list of markets for Fiat. There are soo many examples for Fiat to see. The whole automobile world is here in India now. Learn man!! Look at what a Cruze is doing for Chevy. What a i20 did for Hyundai. Vento and Polo for establishing VW brand in India. Why don't they introduce the latest and best(read engines and interiors) variants of Punto and Linea. Pricing would for sure be higher than existing ones. And let the market respond. Which I'm sure would only respond positively. People are ready to splurge a little more for that brand, and the products are world class. They need to take this risk of introducing a slightly high price but feature rich vehicle. I'm sure they can compensate for the reduced profits/car via higher sales figures.

Take the leap Fiat!

Word!! Couldn't have been better put. I just wrote something similar a couple of posts prior. When you compare FIAT to the car market as a whole, they still look like they're performing poorly [with respect to volumes, image, etc.].

Originally Posted by CareFreeKid

I meant introduction of Evo variant in India. Likewise TJetis only for Linea. Moreover, doors to customization of models from manufacturers end, with options to choose engines/interiors/alloys should be introduced. Have a premium for all this, but at least have an option.

Wow! A man after my own heart! I've always cried out loud too, for manufacturers to give customization options too, for a price. Whoever needs to customize, can enjoy doing it while the manufacturer won't have to bear the cost for the same. Win-win for both parties.

And I too would love to see Punto Evo be offered in India.

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

No offence meant mate. I couldn't agree with your view. When anyone plan to buy a new car, pricing has to be compared with the competition. Why would one compare the prices with previous editions?
No manufacturer can sell cars for loss. Fiat is no exception.

Agreed that we need to compare pricing with cars in the same segment, but sometimes its also important to check and compare price rise in a brand with the previous version. For ex: as some fiat owners or enuthsiast members have noted, there is not much difference in the outgoing Punto and the new Punto 2012, except a new color [which has premium] and improved GC**. We need to compare and see if the price rise is worth the new features/modifications done to the newer model.

** - I'm just quoting from what I'd sifted through this thread and haven't really verified the new improvements on Punto 2012. The 2 improvements are what I mostly read/noted on these pages. If there are more improvements that have been effected, my apologies in advance for not mentioning them. No offense to any FIAT brand enthusiast or owner.

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

More models, more options, more customization can be possible only if the manufacturer sells well. That said, currently I believe Fiat is working more towards the brand building than anything else.

We are again getting back to Interiors . I agree with you that VW interiors are better than Fiat. But, also I must say that Linea's interior is better than than of some Japanese manufacturers.

Though Vento and Rapid have edge over the outright performance, Linea is all different beast on the highway. I am saying this because I own one and I have taken her till 170 with ease.

If Fiat is taking to building brand via just having new customer centers/cafes to interact with potential customers and make sales, it won't help them much in the long run. I don't think we customers need swanky showrooms or offices to have coffee and discuss Fiat cars, do we? What we need [or at least I need] is better quality in the products and the latest cars.

What Fiat needs to do is 'attract' prospective customers. Make people lust for their cars. But with just 2 models with FIAT, how are they going to efficiently execute the build the brand exercise? Fiat's market share in India is a dismal 0.3%.. Can you imagine how poor that is, for a cool and internationally desirable brand like FIAT? It beats me as to why they have only 2 models to sell in India.

They need to stop talking fancy and do whats necessary. Improve quality of their products and bring the latest models and variants immediately and price them in accordance to features and market schematics. Fiat needs to stop, take a look at the existing market and see what auto manufacturers today have for sale to customers. It's sad to say but an i10's interiors could look more appealing than the Palio's interior. I'm not stating this to start a brand fight, but I'm expressing my disguist at a brand that could be Much More in India.

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

The problem is we always search for issues in Fiat to blame Fiat. Every car has its own issues and no manufacturer is perfect as well.

No, Ramesh. Us picking a bone with the cars is not the problem. Every brand has fanboys, enthusiasts, admirers and haters. The problem here is that Fiat don't take themselves seriously in India and/or are not deploying the right approach to improve. IMO. Period!!


Cheers,
ajay K

[Turbokick]

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

I said BEST not the most powerful engine. What is your point actually? Do you mean to say that MJD is not the best just because it is shared among multiple cars? If so, it will showcase your ignorance. Have a look at the video on the previous post.

There are multiple points on which Linea can outshine Vento/Verna.
Dynamics, Ride and Handling, Steering. Sit with me in my Linea on a highway and I will show you the MJD's performance .

Well the point is clear that MJD isn't the best option available in C segment if you consider the following points :
- Outright performance
- Driveablity and ingear performance
- Refinement and NVH

The arguement is about 'best in class engine'. From where did dynamics and other aspects came into picture?

I never said sharing an engine means the engine cannot be termed as 'best in class'. My only point is that the 'exclusivity' is missing. More importantly MJD performs better under non Fiats and that's a well accepted fact. With other cars having equally competent engines MJD is no longer the best engine in the market. You can term them equally good but not 'best'
Neither Punto nor Linea can be termed as cars with 'best in class' engines.

[autocrat]

I took a test drive of the older MJD Linea (Concorde Motors, Mysore road) on Sunday and 2012 Linea yesterday (Prerana Sarjapur). Here are the observtions:

1. Ground Clearance
Concorde Motors salesman told me that the ground clearance increase is only by decreasing the gap between bash plate and the engine. I used my phone as a gauge and measured the gap between tyre and fender of old and new Linea and there is a significant increase in the gap (body mounted higher).

I drove on really bad patches around Sarjapur and the car did not scrape its bottom even on the tallest speedbreakers on the route. Full marks here.

2. Steering feel
Not much difference seen. Actually identical.

3. Ride and Handling
Ride:
Suspension feels stiffer (2012 Emotion with 16" rims, prev. Linea with 15" rims)
Stiffer suspension is to counter body roll due to increase in Ground Clearance.
Seat foam seems to be less firm, to compensate for stiffer suspension. At low speeds I was able to get the feel of road undulations, but the magic ride was back as the speed picked up.

Handling:
Could not test extensively as I was drove on public roads with traffic, however I took full advantage of the 2 U-turns I made to test body roll and grip. The car simply hugs the road (at 25~30 kmph hard U turn in second gear, accelerating out of the turn). Loved the feeling

Other Points:
Could not test the rain sensing wipers and auto headlamps.

Plastic quality has improved (dashboard was liberally doused with polish and was slippery). The height adjustment lever felt solid and will last.

Music quality was not good (stock speakers are below what we expect from a 11.2 lac car)

Familiar solid build

My friend who is 6' 1" sat in the rear seat and he had no headroom - barely a centimeter. His head touched the roof lining when he bent his had back to rest his head.

Dynamic costs 10.85 L on road and Emotion 11.27L (16" Alloys instead of 15", Foldable rear seat, Leather seat covers)

Dynamic seems to be the VFM variant.

EDIT: A note on performance:

The new Linea gave me an impression that it was more powerful than the previous version. The MJD engine revved freely. Turbo lag was felt in second gear at lower RPMs, but car responded well to linear aceleration than to outright flooring of the accelerator pedal. Never felt that the car was underpowered.

[aditya116]

guys,can the auto wipers in fiats be disabled manually,because if one would have a tiny splatter on the windsheild area exactly over the sensor location with your majority area being dry,dusty,wouldnt the wiper scratch out the screen?
HowStuffWorks "How Windshield Wipers Work"

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by Turbokick

Well the point is clear that MJD isn't the best option available in C segment if you consider the following points :
- Outright performance
- Driveablity and ingear performance
- Refinement and NVH

The arguement is about 'best in class engine'. From where did dynamics and other aspects came into picture?

I never said sharing an engine means the engine cannot be termed as 'best in class'. My only point is that the 'exclusivity' is missing. More importantly MJD performs better under non Fiats and that's a well accepted fact. With other cars having equally competent engines MJD is no longer the best engine in the market. You can term them equally good but not 'best'
Neither Punto nor Linea can be termed as cars with 'best in class' engines.

Ah. Its really hard to change people on what they believe. My words are out after experiencing and believing. Some believe with what other say and what the reviews say.

Refinement and NVH - Go and drive Linea and Vento back to back. You will know.

A quote from post # 427 - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2639202
"I love reading negative comments about the Linea and not finding them in my Linea at all..."

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by bejoy

New commercial from Fiat India

While I like the concept behind the commercial, for an ad that speaks of "Passion", the voice-over, IMHO, is appallingly dispassionate. It sounds like a documentary.

[download2live]

Originally Posted by Turbokick

More importantly MJD performs better under non Fiats and that's a well accepted fact.

To best of my limited knowledge it depends on the state of the tune. You can make it peppy by making the components work a little bit harder leading to a little more wear and tear. The MJD in Maruti Swift is known to last for 2+ lakhs of kms. I am sure MJD in Punto will be good for atleast a couple of lakhs more than that. Though we will have to wait till some Bhpians cross that many kms.

[Trust_In_Thrust]

@ajay K : I will only say after owing Maruti for over 10 years M800,Zen Maruti is a bare bone car whether it is M800Vs Nano or SX4 VS Fiesta or Linea when i compare .

Only two features for 2012 Linea. I suggest you read through the posts in totality taking in all points and you will shocked how Fiat gives these features and others do not .

Fiat do not take themselves seriously ?
Fiat has constantly improvised the product from there customer feedback .Till date Maruti has never bothered about noise levels in there cars , high speed stability , thin tyres , responses from there service centres sir this much will happen , charging 250/- INR per hour for stuffing foam at various places to mitigate noises in cabin .Hyundai 80cc compressor for I20 when the whole world is after them for issue or the steering rattles or the floating vernas.

What can i do we just booked a Linea in our family when everyone wanted City / Verna :-).But one ride and everyone was blown .

[Turbokick]

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

Ah. Its really hard to change people on what they believe. My words are out after experiencing and believing. Some believe with what other say and what the reviews say.

Refinement and NVH - Go and drive Linea and Vento back to back. You will know.

A quote from post # 427 - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2639202
"I love reading negative comments about the Linea and not finding them in my Linea at all..."

Vento's refinement isn't the best. I agree to this. Do compare Linea with Verna or Fiesta.

And for the last point 'Ignorance is bliss'

[k_ajay]

Originally Posted by Turbokick

More importantly MJD performs better under non Fiats and that's a well accepted fact.

Sadly, yes. I didn't want to mention it and rub any Fiat fans the wrong way, but it's a shame that Fiat's MJD performs better on a Swift than it does on the Punto.

[Trust_In_Thrust]

Originally Posted by aditya116

guys,can the auto wipers in fiats be disabled manually,because if one would have a tiny splatter on the windsheild area exactly over the sensor location with your majority area being dry,dusty,wouldnt the wiper scratch out the screen?
HowStuffWorks "How Windshield Wipers Work"

I was thinking what if a bird poops ?Will the wiper also spray water and then clean ? But is this feature even offered in Rolls .Fiat give us this one i hate dirty windscreens.

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by download2live

To best of my limited knowledge it depends on the state of the tune. You can make it peppy by making the components work a little bit harder leading to a little more wear and tear. The MJD in Maruti Swift is known to last for 2+ lakhs of kms. I am sure MJD in Punto will be good for atleast a couple of lakhs more than that. Though we will have to wait till some Bhpians cross that many kms.

True. We will have to wait for few more years to really see the longevity of the MJD.

I came across in a forum where a Palio D (Old 1.9D) was reportedly done 7L Kms.

Originally Posted by Turbokick

Vento's refinement isn't the best. I agree to this. Do compare Linea with Verna or Fiesta.

And for the last point 'Ignorance is bliss'

Well. I hate comparing cars with boats.
And, I haven't driven the New Fiesta yet and wouldn't like to comment about it.

[Turbokick]

Originally Posted by download2live

The MJD in Maruti Swift is known to last for 2+ lakhs of kms. I am sure MJD in Punto will be good for atleast a couple of lakhs more than that. Though we will have to wait till some Bhpians cross that many kms.

Maybe the state of tune making the difference.
European Punto clocking quicker numbers than Indian Punto can be taken into consideration.
But 3 lakh Kms? If you drive even 100kms per day, it will take 8+ years to cover that distance
I believe general mass can live up slight compromise in life for better tune.
You just can't convince a costumer coming to testdrive a Fiat saying it can last longer than others because of state of tune.