[SDP]

Originally Posted by mempheS.D

Let's get this nailed ONE after ANOTHER!

Like your passion!

Most of this thread is still playing in the problem domain and there are hardly any solutions offered.

mempheS.D, since you are so passionate about this cause, why don't you take a first stab and articulate some of the solutions.

PS: By solutions, I mean the "how" part of it. The "vision" is well understood, I guess.

[mayankjha1806]

Originally Posted by ACM

Speeding up is not a long term solution for sure. But we all do it from time to time.

But then there is a highway signboard that says "Better Late then Never"

Agree, Better late then never, but somehow this line does not make sense in the heat of the moment. Maybe with few more years of maturity under my belt it may.

Hoping to shift house/school to make it more easier for self or alternatively may decide to use School Bus (Which very often fall in a ditch somewhere, or drop kids at wrong addresses in this city, hence scared)

Originally Posted by mxx

Every rash driver says that he is in a hurry. That is not an excuse. And every once in a while, many of them cause accidents. But, they are in a hurry right?

You have a point.

Haven't you driven fast when you are in a hurry, Never! (or is it you have never been in hurry ever in your lifetime). If so then i must say you are fortunate and lucky. Or pardon me for asking "Do you have kids" , why? because they have their own clock and throw all your leave early planning and suggestion out of the window.

[parsh]

Every so often, you will notice taxis that display a placard on their windshield saying, if the taxi is being driven rash or irresposibly etc and if any issue found to report to a number of the operator.

How about bigger Team-BHP stickers including one-liners saying "Am I driving Rash?Please report to Team-BHP Forum with pics" But hey, that will be too much to ask, isn't it? It is often not possible to take pics in such cases and report and any reporting without proper evidence would be wrong to do so.

Quite a few months back a similar issue was reported I think from B'lore only about a rash driving on a signal. Personally I too have seen a few Team-BHP stickered cars rashly driven.

Personally I feel "Responsible Driving" is a virtue that should be imbibed into any and all of Team-BHP members and also anybody getting the stickers from the members. That is the only solution I see.

Speeding in hurry is done by many and I have also found myself doing it few times. But speeding cannot be termed rash always unless you are putting anybody in jeopardy and do not take due care of the traffic and other drivers viewpoints and cause undue nuisance in the traffic.

[noopster]

One needs to have reasonable expectations. Each and every member of T-BHP driving perfectly all of the time doesn't seem like one. If you go to the "bad drivers" thread, you'll see the odd "confession" post- where BHPians admit to having been a bad driver themselves. We're human after all.

T-BHP has given me a lot: knowledge about cars, thousands of hours of entertainment and above all a community of friends both online and real-life. It's quite similar with a lot of members I know. But the vast majority of visitors to the site don't participate in forum discussions. Check the zero post count list of members and you'll get what I am saying. And I am not even talking about those frequent visitors to the site who are not registered/approved members (I was one for 4 years before signing up). Not to mention, as someone has already pointed out, a set of stickers is really too much unless you have a massive garage and almost all of us end up sharing the stickers with friends and relatives. In such a scenario the best one can do is tell the other person what team BHP stands for: responsible driving. But one can hardly be expected to take responsibility for that person's actual driving habits.

It's far better to take responsibility for one's own driving and leave other drivers to their own devices. If you know the person, you can at least try to convince them to mend their errant ways. But just because someone sports a sticker of some kind doesn't really give any of us the license to go round lecturing them on safe driving practices etc. If you have a specific problem with another driver, address that problem.

Pointing out that someone has an "I drive safe" sticker on his windshield when he is actually not is one thing; holding a driver up to a higher standard because he sports a sticker is something else. Let's not confuse the two.

[xingamazon]

Here are some suggestion to start at least:
1. We can ask the Team-BHP Admins to add a Safety Oath, which the people who buy the stickers should agree before they order for stickers. I know one cant stop them later on, but atleast we should ensure that he is aware that he has taken an oath.
2. Add a disclaimer in the requisition page saying that any violent driving behaviour by people having stickers will be reported in "XXX thread". And Admins should create a thread where we can post pics of people having poor road sense.

I know it will not solve all the issues, but atleast it will ensure that people who get the stickers will have thier conscience impacted when they think of driving rashly.

Any suggestions ?

[mempheS.D]

I agree with the OATH part. In fact, that's all we can do in reality than chase and lecture people as someone mentioned it. An OATH that we re-commit and pledge to once every year, say on the day when TEAM-BHP was initially incpeted. Just so that we are reminded. Period.

Note from Mod : This topic has been discussed several times earlier. However, the discussion has some very valid points which we have made a note of. Thus, closing instead of deleting. Thanks

[misquitas]

[Request to moderators: Please place this topic in the relevant section. thanks]

++++++++++++++++++++

Should Team-BHP members be role models for other motorists?

This question recently came to my mind, when I happened to notice a car sporting a “team-BHP sticker” parked by the roadside near Panjim-Goa.

What struck me as most unusual, if not unfortunate, was the fact that this “team-BHP vehicle” in question sported really dark tints on the windows of the car. It was surely illegal by any standard to have such dark tints on a car.

Then, the question immediately popped up: Shouldn’t Team-BHP members be expected to act as role models to other motorists? And more so, when they prominently sport “Team-BHP stickers” on their vehicles?

After all, members on this forum talk, discuss, deliberate, ponder and even argue on issues pertaining to road safety. But should such initiatives remain merely on paper? Should they not be implemented while we motorists are travelling on the roads? Should we Team-BHP members not be expected to set an example to others by adhering to motoring rules and driving in a responsible manner?

So then, the question that I have raised is this:

Should Team-BHP members be role models for other motorists?

And hence, I thought of also adding a poll.

1. Yes, members can not/ should not lower the reputation of Team-BHP:

I am firmly of this opinion, as I would feel ashamed to represent the team-BHP community if my vehicle and/or driving skills do not confirm to law/expectations and end up lowering the reputation of Team-BHP.

2. No, what members do with their vehicles/driving should not / cannot be the concern of Team-BHP.

I can foresee that many Team-BHP members may say that Team-BHP should not be penalising members who do not adhere to motoring rules or those who drive in an irresponsible manner. Others may say that Team-BHP is a forum that educates and guides members on the various kinds of vehicles and the various approaches to motoring skills and it is not a moral police. So, simply placing a Team-BHP sticker on the vehicle should not make any difference to the Team-BHP member concerned.

Now, if the members poll in favour of the first option, what could be the response of Team-BHP towards those members who are found not adhering to motoring rules or those who drive in an irresponsible manner?

Awaiting responses/opinions to this topic.
Thanks.

[nukeblitz]

There are several questions to be answered. Most importantly, how do we define "setting an example"?

You quote an example regarding tints. IIRC, all tints are banned in India thanks to the supreme court ruling. I'm not aware if this has changed. But in any case, even really low grade tints/sunfilm is disallowed. So, we'll start with the assumption that we'll set an example by following the law to the letter. This raises several concerns.

1. Speed limits: Now, personally, I follow speed limits as well as I can. However, there are situations where I might choose to ignore one. For example, I've been on four lane highways where the limit arbitrarily drops to something ridiculous like 30kph - while everyone else is doing 80kph or more. Remember that the speed differential, rather than the raw speed itself is often the cause of accidents. In this situation, especially during night driving, I might decide that staying at the same speed the rest of traffic is going at is safer than following an arbitrary limit. Another example that comes to mind is the Bangalore airport expressway. A couple of years ago, before completion, there were several intersections with traffic lights. Problem was that everybody ignored them during early hours of the day - precisely when I pass through that road when I'm on my way to Mysore. I almost got rear ended on more than occasion because I decided to stop and everyone else was doing 80kph. Was I setting a good example here? I was being an unsafe driver, IMHO. I eventually started to stop as far to the left of the road as possible - which is a traffic violation in itself as I needed to continue straight through the intersection and I was in the wrong lane.

2. I'm not into the modding scene but as I understand the law, any modification to your engine needs to be approved by the RTO to be road legal. Which means a great deal of what several of us like to do is possibly illegal.

3. Driving behavior: What kind of example would be agreeable to everyone? Some people say "defensive driving" is the example that people need to follow because, theoretically at least, it's supposed to minimize accident risk. And "defensive driving" is a catch-all term for several ideas and not everyone agrees what's integral and what's not.

4. Other road laws that we might break: "Never overtake from the left". Good luck with that on a four lane highway

5. Left lane for cruising and right lane for overtaking (on a four lane highway): It doesn't work here at all. The team-bhp guide says that staying on the left lane might be risky because of far slower moving vehicles, road encroachment, stopped vehicles, pedestrians and countless other obstructions. Personal experience leads me to agree with the guide wholeheartedly.

6. Other driving quirks. Occasionally, say when I'm executing an overtaking maneuver, I might shift at redline. Or I might do this when I'm at a moving at a slower speed and I want to get up to my desired speed as soon as possible. For example in the swift petrol I'm currently driving, I might do a 1-2-5 shift to get to a target speed of 100kph (limit on the Bangalore Hyderabad highway). This might be a 1-2-3-5 in a small diesel. This is is both fun and minimizes overtaking time but is it an good example to set?

I'm sure these opinions will generate debate and there'll be several other controversial statements to be made. But, right now, I think what people do with their cars/driving is their business. Sure, we can promote good practices like we already are but anything further is neither viable nor polite. The point is, how can you define "being a responsible driver" in a way that's agreeable to everybody?

EDIT: I remembered another one. Flashing lights and using the horn before an overtaking maneuver. I've read that doing so excessively might be distracting to other drivers but in my experience, passing meandering trucks and buses and inattentive drivers is safer when you do whatever you can to get their attention.

[Soumyajit9]

This is a vast topic and can be debated widely. Discussions can run into posts and pages. I would try to put down a few points that came to my mind at the first instance.

Firstly, I have a small thing to bring to attention of mods, which has been widely debated over multiple threads (Spottings, Bad Drivers, Suggestions, Stickers, etc threads) - The Team-BHP sticker set is openly available to buy for anyone who isn't a member even.
So the next time we see a rashly driven vehicle with a team-bhp sticker, it does not necessarily prove that he/she is a BHPian and bringing bad name to the community, or not potraying a good picture on behalf of the community.

Secondly, it is our moral responsibilty to follow the guidelines laid down for motorists, whether we are part of Team-BHP or not. With stickers pasted on our cars, that responsibility is more.
But there can be exceptions. I have driven fast during family, work emergencies. That does not mean that I have brought bad name to the community. It was just a bad time or circumstance.

Thirdly, I do not try to potray myself as a role model for fellow road users. I don't want to. I don't want to get beaten up by a cabbie because I asked him not to use mobile while driving, or a rich man because I asked him to be careful with his 200 bhp supercar, or the un-friendly biker because he just scratched my ORVM while squeezing. No, I don't want to do role model play with them.

The best role model I play is to educate my near and dear ones about anything they are doing wrong (as per me).
Examples - Asked my father-in-law to wear seat belt. Asked my school buddy to keep his ORVMs' open. Asked my brother to buy a full face helmet...and so on.
I get laughed at, but that is okay, because I know they will be safe with my unwanted gyaan.

[nukeblitz]

I'm sure there are several points that we can all agree upon - seatbelts for example. I always make sure that everyone who sits in my car wears seatbelts. But then, even that raises questions. What if a small child needs to sit in my car? I don't own a child seat. Do I deny them and ask them to take the bus? It hasn't happened yet but the most I will probably try and do is ask them not to seat the child in the front passenger seat as I can't switch off the front passenger airbag in the Swift that I have currently...

Regarding helmets, if you've ever had been a pillion or have had a pillion without a helmet, that can easily be considered as being irresponsible. It's almost the same as your passenger in the car not buckling up.

The point is that there are several situations where "the ideal" is impractical. And it's impossible to please everyone.

[drmohitg]

In simple words, TBHP is a forum which we are all a part of because we love cars. It cannot and should not become a law enforcing agency. That was never the intended goal of the forum. We can only advice and suggest on the best driving etiquette but not make it binding on the member to follow it. So my vote goes for option 2- "what members do with their vehicles/driving should not / cannot be the concern of Team-BHP".

[saket77]

Dear Misquitas,

Honestly, the poll options do not relate to the topic title. I would refrain from voting but will add that even TBHPians are humans. And TBHP is not a driver's training academy which means that the standards of driving will vary member to member as all have learnt driving elsewhere. And like humans, some may be good, some may be average and some obviously bad. There is a huge population minus TBHP which have as good drivers if not better.
Hence to answer your thread title question, then No, TBHP members should not be always the role model for other motorists. The driving standard of all members simply will have a lot of variance which means a non-standard measure to compare with.

Regards,
Saket

[Ashir]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

In simple words, TBHP is a forum which we are all a part of because we love cars. It cannot and should not become a law enforcing agency. That was never the intended goal of the forum. We can only advice and suggest on the best driving etiquette but not make it binding on the member to follow it. So my vote goes for option 2- "what members do with their vehicles/driving should not / cannot be the concern of Team-BHP".

Originally Posted by saket77

Dear Misquitas,

Honestly, the poll options do not relate to the topic title. I would refrain from voting but will add that even TBHPians are humans. And TBHP is not a driver's training academy which means that the standards of driving will vary member to member as all have learnt driving elsewhere. And like humans, some may be good, some may be average and some obviously bad. There is a huge population minus TBHP which have as good drivers if not better.
Hence to answer your thread title question, then No, TBHP members should not be always the role model for other motorists. The driving standard of all members simply will have a lot of variance which means a non-standard measure to compare with.

Regards,
Saket

T-Bhp is just a discussion platform, in this respect, to judge what is wrong or right. But enforcing any decisions cannot be the motive of this forum.

I would consider the first option to be edited as,
"Yes, members should not lower the reputation of Team-BHP."

It would depend on the member to choose what suits him the best. But, IMHO, if he represents TBHP, he should know what is wrong or right in automobile sense. The reason simply being, teacher's favourite dialog,

"This is what your parents have taught you?"

Here parents being the community we are part of.
Again, it should remain the choice of the member to follow the notion or ignore.

[octane_100]

I voted for 'YES'. I for one would expect the people who are part of this forum to be more conversant with vehicle/road usage and also "traffic etiquette". The forum members should feel privileged rather than burdened with this expectation.

Also, I feel being a good driver on the road has got less to do with talent and more with being aware (of rules) and courteous to other road users.

[Swapnil4585]

Generally, I cannot be a role model, because I've to encounter situations like the one cited by nukeblitz-

I almost got rear ended on more than occasion because I decided to stop and everyone else was doing 80kph. Was I setting a good example here? I was being an unsafe driver, IMHO.

I encounter such a situation many a times during nights. Signal is red, yet no one waits, because the traffic police is absent. Break the law and bad mouth anyone who is trying to abide by it is the practice here.
My thought on such events is, if the lawmakers want to ban something (crossing a red signal) and declare it as punishable, they should first ensure that the law implementing agency is equipped with the necessary armory to detect and subsequently punish the violators. If there is no fear of law, there would be certainly no respect towards a role model.

Off topic - Are law implementing agencies held accountable for not implementing the law?