Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

vinod332002 · 14th December 2011, 08:25

Just read that they are planning a new "Green Cess" on Petrol so as to discourage use of private vehicles. Additionally, there will be a 7.5% urban tax on petrol cars and 20% tax on diesels!!

http://m.economictimes.com/news/econ...w/11102325.cms

While the government will discourage some potential and existing car owners from using private transport, what options are they providing them? The merciless auto walah who cheats you daily, the buses that burst at their seams or the trains where you hang on the door for dear life?

pjbiju · 14th December 2011, 10:12

"NEW DELHI: Buying and running cars and two-wheelers could soon become a costly affair with a Planning Commission working group suggesting a green surcharge of Rs 2 on every litre of petrol, a green cess of 3% of the annual insured value of all private vehicles and a steep urban transport tax to be collected at the time of purchase of private vehicles.

The panel, headed by Delhi Metro chief E Sreedharan, has suggested urban transport tax on purchase of new cars and two-wheelers at 7.5% of the total cost of petrol vehicles and 20% in case of personal diesel cars. ..."

Full Article

phamilyman · 14th December 2011, 10:16

typical short sighted copy paste thoughtless non-systemic measure.

before they propose a system like that - they should build a public transport system that's extensive, safe and reliable like Europe. German cities and Vienna and Prague and Budapest come to mind.

Just raising taxes is another way for the government to fund another MNREGA/mid-day meal types scheme (well intentioned but bulk of money gets siphoned!)

samarjitdhar · 14th December 2011, 10:26

Excerpt from the article

"It is estimated that the new surcharge and taxes will help the government generate Rs 235,741 crore in the 12th five-year plan (2012-17) and Rs 22,40,804 crore over 20 years" 99% of which will go towards fattening of the offshore hidden bank accounts and the pockets of politicians and ministers.

Lets call a spade a spade. For years tax collection has languished in India with the unorganized sector easily dodging taxes because of lack of any kind of regularization of businesses. True there are honest folks but a lot of businesses in India still pay salaries in cash conduct business without receipts and what not. Tax collection is woefully low and the government doesn't intend to improve it fearing their vote banks. Hence the salaried class who tend to buy private vehicles must be punished for the complete lack of governance

. Not once has the planning commission ever studied or published a report on how to improve tax collection spreading the tax umbrella and defeating tax dodgers. My $0.02.

mayankjha1806 · 14th December 2011, 10:31

Stupidity at its best, i must say. Milk the car buyers as much as you can, and when it comes to Govt cutting its own expenses they go silent.

We pay education cess, where does that money go. I do not see any improvement in education reach in the country. Similarly i am sure there will be no improvement in greenery. By the way where would they use this money and for betterment of whom (Other then the Govt themselves).

hellmet · 14th December 2011, 13:42

Additional tax on petrol is well worth a massive nation-wide protest. I've had enough.

The easier way out is to escape, get a VISA and get the hell out.

akshay380 · 14th December 2011, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellmet

Additional tax on petrol is well worth a massive nation-wide protest. I've had enough.

The easier way out is to escape, get a VISA and get the hell out.

Exactly my thoughts. I am just waiting for that final nail in the coffin before I move out of my country.

I find it amusing that while cess is being levied on new cars and petrol, why millions of privately owned diesel vehicles are left out of its purview? Also why cant govt give some sort of subsidy on commercial vehicles like refund of insurance premium etc and let diesel as a fuel share the burden with petrol? Why are petrol vehicle users victimized every time?
Well! All this wouldn't had to be done if we had effective taxing system.

tsk1979 · 14th December 2011, 14:01

Govt needs money in form of taxes. Taxing cars impacts a very little percentage of the votebank, and the money can be used to fund subsidies etc., which get in more votes.
Till car ownership is amongst a very small percentage of the populace, be ready for such measures.
In the next couple of years I think this will happen
1. Differential diesel pricing bill will meet resistance from opposition, and will die a permanent death
2. To fix their deficit, govt will come up with increase in excise etc., for cars esp those costing above 5L. After all, what is the % of people buying cars above 5L(from a vote share perspective)
3. Diesel cars will see a 20-30% jump
4. State govts will slowly approach KA model of 13-20% taxes. Affluent states(with higher per capita car ownership) like PB/HR will limit to peak tax of 10%. States with lesser vote impact will go upto 20%
5. Some extra taxes will be introduced as soon as a new govt comes in power, as they have 5 years to mitigate impact.

scooby05 · 14th December 2011, 14:20

No kind of cess is going to work in our country. Its an eye wash, and will only give the ministry concerned a higher value for the portfolio allocation, that goes to the ruling party.

sethuv · 14th December 2011, 14:21

I don't think the government can afford to do something like this at this juncture when everyone is expecting a downturn. Who knows this might be a ploy to push car sales up in the expectation of increased prices in the near future.

kiku007 · 14th December 2011, 14:33

Nonsense. Is it like, the Govt has provided comfortable, safe, punctual public transport and we guys are ignoring those and low flying in Lambos and Ferraris? Give me such a transport facility and I'm ready to take it to office daily instead of my car.

phamilyman · 14th December 2011, 14:39

and at the end of the day, like all good sheeple, we will whine, crib, and just get on with life - like nothing happened.

or get a visa and get the hell out. There is no hope in this country.

radek · 14th December 2011, 15:01

Give me comfortable and dependable public transport and I will keep my car at home, even if petrol costs Rs 10 per litre.

Even If I assume that the extra tax collected will be used to develop new public transport, there is no transparent mechanism to ensure this. I do not think the education cess really gone into making of better schools.

mjothi · 14th December 2011, 15:03

In my opinion, collection of Tax is already sufficient. What they lack is not money, but something called management, responsibility. The tax collection is visible, but where it goes is the problem. No transparency.

With the current congress almost removing poverty (not by increasing the income of people, but reducing the PL slab!!!) there would be no more need for any subsidy I guess!

Coming to public transport.

Just read in a paper that BMTC is also in huge loss for the past 2 years. What the heck!

The minimum charge in Volvo is all double digits. And even other buses, its almost same. Me, from day one, against Volvo bus. Rather they could have increased the number of buses ten folds for that money and maintenance. And still I believe in that.

vinod332002 · 14th December 2011, 16:11

Singapore is a prime example of a country that has a well executed anti-private-car policy. They almost kill you with a CoE (Certificate of Entitlement - needed to make a car road legal) on a new car but provide you a wonderful public transport system. Most people there dont own cars, the few that do still use the public transport - because it is really good. That is how such a policy is to be implemented.

Here in India, this proposed cess will create a situation where they won't be even half decent public transport and yet it will be prohibitively expensive for someone to own a car.

14th December 2011, 08:25	#1
vinod332002 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Mumbai Posts: 104 Thanked: 46 Times	Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax Just read that they are planning a new "Green Cess" on Petrol so as to discourage use of private vehicles. Additionally, there will be a 7.5% urban tax on petrol cars and 20% tax on diesels!! http://m.economictimes.com/news/econ...w/11102325.cms While the government will discourage some potential and existing car owners from using private transport, what options are they providing them? The merciless auto walah who cheats you daily, the buses that burst at their seams or the trains where you hang on the door for dear life?
	() Thanks

14th December 2011, 10:12	#2
pjbiju Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,357 Thanked: 1,089 Times	Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax "NEW DELHI: Buying and running cars and two-wheelers could soon become a costly affair with a Planning Commission working group suggesting a green surcharge of Rs 2 on every litre of petrol, a green cess of 3% of the annual insured value of all private vehicles and a steep urban transport tax to be collected at the time of purchase of private vehicles. The panel, headed by Delhi Metro chief E Sreedharan, has suggested urban transport tax on purchase of new cars and two-wheelers at 7.5% of the total cost of petrol vehicles and 20% in case of personal diesel cars. ..." Full Article
	() Thanks

14th December 2011, 10:16	#3
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,641 Times	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax typical short sighted copy paste thoughtless non-systemic measure. before they propose a system like that - they should build a public transport system that's extensive, safe and reliable like Europe. German cities and Vienna and Prague and Budapest come to mind. Just raising taxes is another way for the government to fund another MNREGA/mid-day meal types scheme (well intentioned but bulk of money gets siphoned!)
	(6) Thanks

14th December 2011, 10:26	#4
samarjitdhar BHPian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Sydney/Kolkata Posts: 973 Thanked: 493 Times	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax Excerpt from the article "It is estimated that the new surcharge and taxes will help the government generate Rs 235,741 crore in the 12th five-year plan (2012-17) and Rs 22,40,804 crore over 20 years" 99% of which will go towards fattening of the offshore hidden bank accounts and the pockets of politicians and ministers. Lets call a spade a spade. For years tax collection has languished in India with the unorganized sector easily dodging taxes because of lack of any kind of regularization of businesses. True there are honest folks but a lot of businesses in India still pay salaries in cash conduct business without receipts and what not. Tax collection is woefully low and the government doesn't intend to improve it fearing their vote banks. Hence the salaried class who tend to buy private vehicles must be punished for the complete lack of governance . Not once has the planning commission ever studied or published a report on how to improve tax collection spreading the tax umbrella and defeating tax dodgers. My $0.02. Last edited by samarjitdhar : 14th December 2011 at 10:27.
	() Thanks

14th December 2011, 10:31	#5
mayankjha1806 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,160 Thanked: 977 Times View My Garage	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax Stupidity at its best, i must say. Milk the car buyers as much as you can, and when it comes to Govt cutting its own expenses they go silent. We pay education cess, where does that money go. I do not see any improvement in education reach in the country. Similarly i am sure there will be no improvement in greenery. By the way where would they use this money and for betterment of whom (Other then the Govt themselves).
	(1) Thanks

14th December 2011, 13:42	#6
hellmet BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: GTA \| GHMC Posts: 886 Thanked: 1,025 Times	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax Additional tax on petrol is well worth a massive nation-wide protest. I've had enough. The easier way out is to escape, get a VISA and get the hell out.
	(1) Thanks

14th December 2011, 14:01	#8
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,820 Times View My Garage	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax Govt needs money in form of taxes. Taxing cars impacts a very little percentage of the votebank, and the money can be used to fund subsidies etc., which get in more votes. Till car ownership is amongst a very small percentage of the populace, be ready for such measures. In the next couple of years I think this will happen 1. Differential diesel pricing bill will meet resistance from opposition, and will die a permanent death 2. To fix their deficit, govt will come up with increase in excise etc., for cars esp those costing above 5L. After all, what is the % of people buying cars above 5L(from a vote share perspective) 3. Diesel cars will see a 20-30% jump 4. State govts will slowly approach KA model of 13-20% taxes. Affluent states(with higher per capita car ownership) like PB/HR will limit to peak tax of 10%. States with lesser vote impact will go upto 20% 5. Some extra taxes will be introduced as soon as a new govt comes in power, as they have 5 years to mitigate impact.
	(3) Thanks

14th December 2011, 14:20	#9
scooby05 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,145 Thanked: 192 Times	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax No kind of cess is going to work in our country. Its an eye wash, and will only give the ministry concerned a higher value for the portfolio allocation, that goes to the ruling party.
	() Thanks

14th December 2011, 14:21	#10
sethuv BHPian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: New Zealand Posts: 38 Thanked: 3 Times	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax I don't think the government can afford to do something like this at this juncture when everyone is expecting a downturn. Who knows this might be a ploy to push car sales up in the expectation of increased prices in the near future.
	() Thanks

14th December 2011, 14:33	#11
kiku007 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: AU Posts: 2,321 Thanked: 7,159 Times	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax Nonsense. Is it like, the Govt has provided comfortable, safe, punctual public transport and we guys are ignoring those and low flying in Lambos and Ferraris? Give me such a transport facility and I'm ready to take it to office daily instead of my car.
	() Thanks

14th December 2011, 14:39	#12
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,641 Times	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax and at the end of the day, like all good sheeple, we will whine, crib, and just get on with life - like nothing happened. or get a visa and get the hell out. There is no hope in this country.
	() Thanks

14th December 2011, 15:01	#13
radek BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 288 Thanked: 81 Times	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax Give me comfortable and dependable public transport and I will keep my car at home, even if petrol costs Rs 10 per litre. Even If I assume that the extra tax collected will be used to develop new public transport, there is no transparent mechanism to ensure this. I do not think the education cess really gone into making of better schools.
	() Thanks

14th December 2011, 15:03	#14
mjothi Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 3,287 Thanked: 231 Times View My Garage	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax In my opinion, collection of Tax is already sufficient. What they lack is not money, but something called management, responsibility. The tax collection is visible, but where it goes is the problem. No transparency. With the current congress almost removing poverty (not by increasing the income of people, but reducing the PL slab!!!) there would be no more need for any subsidy I guess! Coming to public transport. Just read in a paper that BMTC is also in huge loss for the past 2 years. What the heck! The minimum charge in Volvo is all double digits. And even other buses, its almost same. Me, from day one, against Volvo bus. Rather they could have increased the number of buses ten folds for that money and maintenance. And still I believe in that. Last edited by mjothi : 14th December 2011 at 15:05.
	() Thanks

14th December 2011, 16:11	#15
vinod332002 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Mumbai Posts: 104 Thanked: 46 Times	Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax Singapore is a prime example of a country that has a well executed anti-private-car policy. They almost kill you with a CoE (Certificate of Entitlement - needed to make a car road legal) on a new car but provide you a wonderful public transport system. Most people there dont own cars, the few that do still use the public transport - because it is really good. That is how such a policy is to be implemented. Here in India, this proposed cess will create a situation where they won't be even half decent public transport and yet it will be prohibitively expensive for someone to own a car.
	(1) Thanks