[swiftnfurious]

To really be sure of Honda's attitude, Brio's launch will be crucial. Its going to be a make / break car for them since they are looking at the volume segment. And Honda, please dont price it at a premium - Maruti is the undisputed KING there. You better watch out your steps.

[nik_kapur]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

To really be sure of Honda's attitude, Brio's launch will be crucial. Its going to be a make / break car for them since they are looking at the volume segment. And Honda, please dont price it at a premium - Maruti is the undisputed KING there. You better watch out your steps.

+1 to that. Lets see Honda try and sell the Brio at a premium, that will truly reveal whether they have learnt anything.

[Max]

Yes, Honda brand is definitely in great trouble in India. My society have more then 200 cars and I regularly see new cars being bought by people, I have not seen single Honda bought by anyone in last 6-8 months, where as i have seen 6 new ventos, 2 polos, even etios (yesterday) and many other cars.

Honda need diesel engine in its cars. period.

Honda will regain its market share easily if they launch diesel sedan at little premium. Honda name is enough for people to just buy the car. I am driving Honda since last 8-9 years and never had any single issue at all. The car just drives whenever i started it. IMO, honda's car plastics, parts etc., are robustly build / engineered and performs better then other cars hence deserves little premium. However lack of diesel option has kept me and many other buyers away from Honda city.

[vb-saan]

I guess Honda is definitely feeling the heat in the City segment. Especially with the arrival of Vento (that too with a great TDI engine).

In the other segments there was no heat anyway. Jazz is not doing much, CRV is so overpriced and have steep ownership costs, Civic is hit by the news of new Civic arrival and Accord is getting eaten up by Superb (any maybe by the new Passat in near future).

That said, competition is always good, and maybe good for Honda as well. For one, they could start acting normally, and get some sort of self-awareness, and realign their outlook / products in India. And as customers, it is indeed fantastic for us. It will be great to see an awesome product like Jazz working!

[mdsaab]

Yes ofcourse Honda is feeling the heat.
They had leaders like
CRV
Accord
Civic
City
all of these have been dethroned.
People are extremely price sensitive, and they want to get the most bang for their buck.
So people look for more features at the same price point. It doesnt matter whether the quality is not upto the mark or reliability is poor.
They want the best deal, the most features and total paisa vasool.
And its here where Honda is struggling to keep up.
Honda strongly believe in quality and they dont like to compromise.
So if you get cruise control in the new.civic, they take away the spare alloy wheel as well as the 6cd changer.
So when people enter a Honda showroom.after visiting another brand they end up feeling they are not getting all what they are paying for. In many cases you pay more for.a Honda.
But a few things will always remain in Honda's favour ~
Quality
Reliability
hassle free owership experience.
Fantastic engines
And thats why we still love the brand.
Just pray that Honda launches some diesels and FAST!

[ambivalent_98]

Originally Posted by mdsaab

Yes ofcourse Honda is feeling the heat.
They had leaders like
CRV
Accord
Civic
City
all of these have been dethroned.
People are extremely price sensitive, and they want to get the most bang for their buck.
So people look for more features at the same price point. It doesnt matter whether the quality is not upto the mark or reliability is poor.
They want the best deal, the most features and total paisa vasool.
And its here where Honda is struggling to keep up.
Honda strongly believe in quality and they dont like to compromise.
So if you get cruise control in the new.civic, they take away the spare alloy wheel as well as the 6cd changer.
So when people enter a Honda showroom.after visiting another brand they end up feeling they are not getting all what they are paying for. In many cases you pay more for.a Honda.
But a few things will always remain in Honda's favour ~
Quality
Reliability
hassle free owership experience.
Fantastic engines
And thats why we still love the brand.
Just pray that Honda launches some diesels and FAST!

I totally agree. I am a Honda loyalist of sorts but since they do not have a diesel my next car will not be a Honda :( . They had better get a City diesel at least to scare the daylights of competing diesel brands in that segment.

[Sowmya]

Market of Honda Badge is sinking. If they want to survive then they has to wake up. Bring some new product to the market. How many more year people will see same CITY/ACCORD ... Over Priced Jazz. Indian market always looks for VFM. If Honda wants to sustain in India market then they has to bring some kind VFM car else they will be history

[volkman10]

It is a good reality check the competition has given to Honda and I am sure they would come out of this. The latest is being de-throned from the C segment by Vento ( TDI).

It would not be a better time for them now since they have the Brio launch soon. If they are serious to stay here, then we could see an aggressive pricing or else it would be interesting to see where they would be positioned in the Indian auto industry!


Cheers!

[chevelle]

Originally Posted by mdsaab

People are extremely price sensitive, and they want to get the most bang for their buck.
So people look for more features at the same price point. It doesnt matter whether the quality is not upto the mark or reliability is poor.
They want the best deal, the most features and total paisa vasool.
But a few things will always remain in Honda's favour ~
Quality
Reliability
hassle free owership experience.
Fantastic engines
And thats why we still love the brand.
Just pray that Honda launches some diesels and FAST!

Regarding what you mention in bold, i strongly disagree. If that's the case, linea has superior equipment, ride & handling and so does sx4. They are nowhere in sales. Herd mentality plays a important role too.

No doubt people want best bang for buck. Actually who doesn't? But there are other factors too when buying a 10-lakh sedan, which you have listed at the end. Also add brand status and diesel engine to that and it makes a lot of sense.

Honda cars are little bit 'paisa vasool' but that is in long run since they are more efficient(petrol), demand higher resale and reliable.

The heat is all because of diesel engine. Plonk one in city, civic and accord and others won't stand a chance, that's how loyal/partial/suckers we Indians are for Honda and Toyota badge.

But Honda is being slow in responding to competitors attack by bringing in diesel. They are being arrogant and that's what they are paying for.

Nevertheless, its just one month of sales that dipped, lets wait for atleast a couple of months more so we can see the real picture, once new fiesta and verna starts selling.

just my 2 cents. ymmv

[shankar.balan]

Very good points made chevelle.

Honda does come across as a bit arrogant and not as flexible as others to tune in to some specific market requirements.

But looking at it another way, they are focussing on what they are good at, commanding a certain premium position in the market and obviously doing quite well out of it.

Originally Posted by chevelle

Regarding what you mention in bold, i strongly disagree. If that's the case, linea has superior equipment, ride & handling and so does sx4. They are nowhere in sales. Herd mentality plays a important role too.

No doubt people want best bang for buck. Actually who doesn't? But there are other factors too when buying a 10-lakh sedan, which you have listed at the end. Also add brand status and diesel engine to that and it makes a lot of sense.

Honda cars are little bit 'paisa vasool' but that is in long run since they are more efficient(petrol), demand higher resale and reliable.

The heat is all because of diesel engine. Plonk one in city, civic and accord and others won't stand a chance, that's how loyal/partial/suckers we Indians are for Honda and Toyota badge.

But Honda is being slow in responding to competitors attack by bringing in diesel. They are being arrogant and that's what they are paying for.

Nevertheless, its just one month of sales that dipped, lets wait for atleast a couple of months more so we can see the real picture, once new fiesta and verna starts selling.

just my 2 cents. ymmv

[nik_kapur]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Very good points made chevelle.

Honda does come across as a bit arrogant and not as flexible as others to tune in to some specific market requirements.

But looking at it another way, they are focussing on what they are good at, commanding a certain premium position in the market and obviously doing quite well out of it.

Hi Shankar, i wont call Honda arrogant for not working on a diesel motor as the volume markets that they operate in have never been diesel markets. They do really well in USA and that isn't a diesel car market. I agree now they need a diesel mill to survive in India !

I would call them arrogant for not caring about the Indian market conditions and for not offering us cars with features often found on competition and over pricing them.

Also what we need to understand is that Honda isnt a Big/All segment player like a Toyota, VW or a Hyundai for that matter and they are more of a large niche player. Honda doesnt have a Big Suv in there range, no small cars till date (Brio is there first attempt), no Pickups, No Muvs really.

[chevelle]

Originally Posted by nik_kapur

Hi Shankar, i wont call Honda arrogant for not working on a diesel motor as the volume markets that they operate in have never been diesel markets. They do really well in USA and that isn't a diesel car market. I agree now they need a diesel mill to survive in India !

I would call them arrogant for not caring about the Indian market conditions and for not offering us cars with features often found on competition and over pricing them.

Also what we need to understand is that Honda isnt a Big/All segment player like a Toyota, VW or a Hyundai for that matter and they are more of a large niche player. Honda doesnt have a Big Suv in there range, no small cars till date (Brio is there first attempt), no Pickups, No Muvs really.

None of the honda's competitors viz Toyota, Hyundai, mitsu have a diesel in USA since its not a diesel market. Only VW has diesel which is again a very niche market in USA. Move to Europe and you will see reversal of roles. Honda does have a 2.2 diesel in their pockets. They can downsize it and make smaller diesel engines from that if required in order to be competitive. So they can use it in civic, city and use 2.2 in accord and crv to get competitive edge.

i called them arrogant just because of the way they operate in India and not in other countries. They make excellent cars, no doubting that, but they have to look at it from economic perspective too.

Regarding features, i give more priority to safety features(abs, airbags) in all variants rather than giving it only on top of line model which VW, Hyundai, Ford is doing compared to getting a ACC or alloy as standard instead of manual ac and wheel caps. Indeed its good to have features but not absolutely compulsive which is not the case in safety features. But that's me, others have different requirements and thinking. So to each his own.

Regarding being a niche player, Toyota use to play in the same ball park, look where they are right now. They launched some good cars and suvs and are laughing their way to banks. why don't they launch odyssey, crosstour, pilot here? Who is stopping Honda from doing the same? I guess the Honda management. Let them sleep while others make merry.

@Shankar. I do appreciate Honda for what they are good at, excellent high-revving petrols with good economy and reliability not to mention safety features in all variants. That's something other manufacturers should take a note of. And Honda should take note of how to provide better features for similar price or give discounts to entice buyers. That's what Hyundai did in past 10-15 years and now is 4th largest manufacturer in the world.

[vinya_jag]

Check the 2012 Civic.
The 2012 Honda Civic - Official Site

The front very much looks the same. The rear looks like its been derived from a Nascar. The interiors are pale and very similar to the one today.

The Accord is already dead.

I don't think they have anything planned for India in the near future.

All these days, their cars did the talking. Now the marketing should step IN. At least for the next 2 years

[CARDEEP]

I agree with the fact that Honda city is feeling the heat because of equally good petrol (well... almost) & absence of diesel mill in the city, but, feel that it is too early to assume that City is down at this point of time, if the same is based on Mar-11 sales figures only.

This is because, in mid/ late Feb-11 Honda recalled the car & the exercise went upto mid Mar-11. Then we had the massive earthquake & tsunami in Japan that has affected the supply of the critical parts that were being imported from the Land of Rising Sun. IMO, these factors have help up deliveries which have reflected in dismal sales numbers. Let the situation normalize then, we will be in a better position to comment on the fall of City.

No doubt, the City which was selling 4.5-5K units till Dec-10 has suffered because of the new launches, but, I would like to see this impact in the long run rather than a period of 2-3 months.

[mdsaab]

@chevelle point noted. I guess there are exceptions.
But the Fiat brand has always struggled in India, and so the resale values are poor. That definately keeps people away.
Regarding the sx4 hmm i really don't know what to say. I guess people keep associating them with their smaller cars and they loose out on the brand value that Honda and Toyota have as you mentioned.
Case closed.