[ganesc]

Originally Posted by GTO

Just ask the neighbourhood cabbie whose Innova is going strong on 250,000 kms.

Recently went in a HiAce that has done 4,65,000+ KM's without any engine work I did not realize that until I saw the Odo and next service reminder sticker. And guess what the driver was doing 170 KMPH constantly and I was sitting besides in front Enjoyed!

He also told me that there are couple of examples with 7+ Lacs KM's with them without engine work i.e. Only oil change for every 5000 KMs.

Toyota Diesel - Gem of an engine It seriously didn't feel like it has clocked that much.

Originally Posted by GTO

Toyota should have used this facelift opportunity and bumped up the power to atleast 120 BHP, along with 40 - 50 more Nm of torque. A taller 5th gear would have been welcome too, as the current ratio is too short for long distance expressway cruising.

+1

Originally Posted by GTO

Softer face looks more car-like now. No major sheet metal changes. Redesigned bumper & fog lamps blend in better with the rest of the vehicle:

True, and it looks more car like now at front. but come to the side/rear 3rd quarter, hmmm... that same Ambulance look.

Originally Posted by GTO

stand-out silver appears to be India-specific:

Looks completely out of place.

As many said, Is it for the gigantic look + 4x4 that the Fortuner is claiming 10+ Lacs more?

O.T: Seeing Innova 2012's Grill; looked like it "slightly" resembled Nissan Sunny's? (resembling = To an extent. esp the outermost chrome frame layout - thickness) Don't bang me for it.

[RGK]

Already it has all the ingredients to be the best MPV in India and Toyota could not do much facelift except the OVRMs. Audio etc..

Sometimes I get a chance to drive a 5 year old Innova which has done 1,90,000 km and never felt any difference in the quality or performance of the car. May not be a good looking car, but attracts customers purely on its quality and reliability.

[dkaile]

Design elements from Toyota have always remained conservative which a vast majority of car driving consumers like, understated elegance, I would call it.

The recent drastic design was in the Altis when it was launched, which I felt was a very well designed car till they spoilt it with garish clear lens tail lights recently and now followed the same with the facelifted Fortuner's backend. The Etios/Liva are a definite design gaffe from the front end and dashboard layout and bizarre red coloured finishes to the interiors. But that does not take anything away from the solid engineering underneath the skin and the still Made in Japan Diesel Engines, which are a delight in ruggedness and reliability.

[samish_g]

Originally Posted by ganesc

Recently went in a HiAce that has done 4,65,000+ KM's without any engine work

He also told me that there are couple of examples with 7+ Lacs KM's with them without engine work i.e. Only oil change for every 5000 KMs.

Toyota Diesel - Gem of an engine It seriously didn't feel like it has clocked that much.

Recently had been to the dealership and while chatting with one of the SA, came to know that in Namma Bengaluru too they service a couple of Qualis vehicles which have run over 7 lakh kilometers!!! That too without ANY engine (re)work. Amazing indeed.

[aravind.anand]

The Innova was looking more car like prior to this facelift IMHO. I quite dislike the new face. Not that I like the dash board which looks like some out-of-the-mind owner stuck an ICE on top of the factory fitted ICE. The steering wheel is the only positive change, while the reversing camera and DVD player are well deserved additional features. A lower ratio 6th gear is sorely missed. But IMHO, the true fact is that, Toyota Innova will sell, facelift or not!

[arun_m5]

These are pictures of the 2012 Innova from the Dubai Motorshow, notice the better looking center console..

The much awaited automatic transmission for the Innova may also make its appearance in India:

I think the center console is a bit deeper,

The Altis style "maximum space utilization" concept is applied here too

Not a bad front end at all, considering the funny looks of the older one, this version seems to be more grown up and better!!

[tanwaramit]

Thanks for pics from Dubai. I dont think they will be launching AT in India in Innova. After 2 years they are launching AT in Fortuner, also there is no news of AT in Innova.

For Toyota, news about their product launches are not so hidden, so lets wait for the day when Toyota makes up their mind on AT for Innova.

[Boomerang]

I always felt Toyota's 'India release' vehicles lack a decent dash. its plain, unattractive and Tata type.

I reckon, they design team was to asked to make minor cost effective adjustments to release a new model. Disappointed is the word.

[swiftdiesel]

Guys, any diesel engine that's in a lower state of tune than what it's capable of can go around the world a few times and still remain as good as new. It's not that Toyota has re-invented the wheel; all they've done is de-tune the engine for efficiency and longer life. For instance, the Innova's D-4D is capable of 150 bhp, but they've given it a measly 102.

Other manufacturers like Hyundai for instance, give you engines that are tuned for performance, like the Verna's 1.6 CRDi unit producing 128 bhp. My hats off to Hyundai for putting performance ahead of everything else! Trust me, this engine won't last like the Innova's engine. Reason? Its higher state of tune. It's always a ball game of compromise that manufacturers play depending upon the market requirement. It always tickles a funny bone in me when I see people singing praises for Toyota engines. Well, at least Toyota laugh their way to the bank!

[drmohitg]

The Innova is already overpriced for what it offers in terms of gadgets. Reliability and practicality cannot be measured in my opinion and is more of an Individual thing. Thats the reason according to me for Toyota not launching a Diesel AT option in the Innova. A premium of 1L over the top end model will easily make the AT car cross 15L OTR which is a sort of mental barrier for a car buyer. Once he crosses the 15L barrier in his mind then I am sure he will probably also consider the bigger SUVs or the D segment sedans.

Regarding the Facelift the new interiors look really drab to me. The "In your face" kind of dash is a huge put off. The dash in the pictures from the Dubai show look so much more better.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by swiftdiesel

Other manufacturers like Hyundai for instance, give you engines that are tuned for performance, like the Verna's 1.6 CRDi unit producing 128 bhp. Trust me, this engine won't last like the Innova's engine. Reason? Its higher state of tune. It's always a ball game of compromise that manufacturers play depending upon the market requirement. It always tickles a funny bone in me when I see people singing praises for Toyota engines. Well, at least Toyota laugh their way to the bank!

IMHO, given the indian scenario, I am actually happy with the power provided. To me 102 BHP is sufficient for all our indian highways and roads. Given the indian mentality of traffic sense, more power = more speed = more disaster.
Verna may appeal to the young blood who want to floor the throttle and drift. (More power)
My primary need would be to ferry 5+ people in reasonable comfort and those people would be my family (Spouse and parents) or Office colleagues. I would personally be happy with 102 bhp and 3,00,000 + kms of innova rather than 128 bhp and 1,50,000 + kms of Verna.

For the power hungry population, there are many options like K&N Air kit, Manifolds, Pete's etc (discussed in detail on other threads in TBHP). Secondly for the taxi market, where maximum innovas are sold, they would be happy with even 80 bhp, 5,00,000 kms or even a 80bhp, 3.0 fortuner engine for 7,00,000 kms.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

The Innova is already overpriced for what it offers in terms of gadgets. Reliability and practicality cannot be measured in my opinion and is more of an Individual thing. Thats the reason according to me for Toyota not launching a Diesel AT option in the Innova. A premium of 1L over the top end model will easily make the AT car cross 15L OTR which is a sort of mental barrier for a car buyer. Once he crosses the 15L barrier in his mind then I am sure he will probably also consider the bigger SUVs or the D segment sedans.

Regarding the Facelift the new interiors look really drab to me. The "In your face" kind of dash is a huge put off. The dash in the pictures from the Dubai show look so much more better.

The maximum innova sale is from the taxi segment and they would buy even if innova is offered in a 4 gear low-cost version. Toyotas do not find value in adding an auto tranny as rightly put by you. the private buyer will look forward to the next level instead of a 16/17 lac OTR Auto Innova V model. Secondly the taxi market would never pick an auto model (Cost cost and cost). Even if auto is offered on the "E" model, the taxi would pick up the GX Manual for the same price instead of the "E" Automatic.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

IMHO, given the indian scenario, I am actually happy with the power provided. To me 102 BHP is sufficient for all our indian highways and roads. Given the indian mentality of traffic sense, more power = more speed = more disaster.

For me its not that much about the power as it is for the gear ratios and the NVH levels. I currently drive a Altis diesel mind you with a mere 87 bhp to play with. But the drive feels so much better then the Innova. Ofcourse its not fair to compare a sedan with a MUV but still I would have loved if Toyota somehow managed to make the driving part a little more pleasurable. On the highway the Innova runs out of steam at around 100 as far as I am concerned. It might go a little further up ( most Taxi's usually do around 120-130 I guess) but the engine really starts crying out loud. The feeling if you are the driver is not a very pleasant one since you can feel the engine kind of strained.

Even if auto is offered on the "E" model, the taxi would pick up the GX Manual for the same price instead of the "E" Automatic.

Taxi segment will never buy the AT ofcourse. But there is a sizeable number of private owners too who opt for the Innova. But then as I said earlier Toyota is already charging a huge premium and has left no room for the existence of an AT version.

[swiftdiesel]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

IMHO, given the indian scenario, I am actually happy with the power provided. To me 102 BHP is sufficient for all our indian highways and roads. Given the indian mentality of traffic sense, more power = more speed = more disaster.
Verna may appeal to the young blood who want to floor the throttle and drift. (More power)
My primary need would be to ferry 5+ people in reasonable comfort and those people would be my family (Spouse and parents) or Office colleagues. I would personally be happy with 102 bhp and 3,00,000 + kms of innova rather than 128 bhp and 1,50,000 + kms of Verna.

For the power hungry population, there are many options like K&N Air kit, Manifolds, Pete's etc (discussed in detail on other threads in TBHP). Secondly for the taxi market, where maximum innovas are sold, they would be happy with even 80 bhp, 5,00,000 kms or even a 80bhp, 3.0 fortuner engine for 7,00,000 kms.



The maximum innova sale is from the taxi segment and they would buy even if innova is offered in a 4 gear low-cost version. Toyotas do not find value in adding an auto tranny as rightly put by you. the private buyer will look forward to the next level instead of a 16/17 lac OTR Auto Innova V model. Secondly the taxi market would never pick an auto model (Cost cost and cost). Even if auto is offered on the "E" model, the taxi would pick up the GX Manual for the same price instead of the "E" Automatic.

I absolutely agree on all the above mentioned points. My point of contention was not Innova's poor bhp output or why the Indian public wouldn't mind a 4 lac km Innova.

The point I was trying to drive home was this: there is nothing special about the fact that the Innova's D-4D lasts longer than its rivals. Toyota manages it by its lower state of tune. I reckon any engine that's detuned will last that much longer, not just Toyota.

[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by swiftdiesel

I absolutely agree on all the above mentioned points. My point of contention was not Innova's poor bhp output or why the Indian public wouldn't mind a 4 lac km Innova.

The point I was trying to drive home was this: there is nothing special about the fact that the Innova's D-4D lasts longer than its rivals. Toyota manages it by its lower state of tune. I reckon any engine that's detuned will last that much longer, not just Toyota.

Then what stops the other manufacturers to follow the same path? Again, the reliability simply can not be achieved via lower state of tune only, there are lot of other factors impacting reliability.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by Nitrous Power

Then what stops the other manufacturers to follow the same path? Again, the reliability simply can not be achieved via lower state of tune only, there are lot of other factors impacting reliability.

Originally Posted by swiftdiesel

I absolutely agree on all the above mentioned points. My point of contention was not Innova's poor bhp output or why the Indian public wouldn't mind a 4 lac km Innova.

The point I was trying to drive home was this: there is nothing special about the fact that the Innova's D-4D lasts longer than its rivals. Toyota manages it by its lower state of tune. I reckon any engine that's detuned will last that much longer, not just Toyota.

My take - why can't they come up with an acceptable middle ground say 130BHP with 2.5L of reliable performance. Most tourist taxi's also get rid of the Innova by 2.5L kms. (They also do find the cost of spares (Suspension and engine bits) of Innova's to be quite high (compared to home grown solutions which are the only alternative)- when they do go wrong - which is rare (for a Toyota) but does happen post 1.5L kms in Indian conditions.

Higher state of tune is not the only reasons that other options are not as reliable as the Toyota and nor is it the only reason that Toyota's are more reliable but yes it definately would be one of the significant contributors.

On a side note if higher state of tunes were to impact reliability then we would also go down to feeling/believing that a Acura would be less reliable than a Honda, a Lexus less than a Toyota, an Audi less than a VW/ Skoda etc.. (referring only to engine & transmission components not the electronic features).