[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

A Company cannot / will no build say indica of sub-standard quality but build an Aria comparable to Japanese quality. It is impossible. Only if learning over the years are incorporated in facelifts, upgrades, new models, the build quality would increase.

The Indica (1998) started out as a mess, but was vastly improved in the V2 (2000), then further upgraded in V2 02 (2002), then came the turbo (2006), then the vista and now the vista refresh (2011). Each one came up better than earlier. So are you saying that the Vista is not up there in terms of quality?

Sorry, but I beg to differ.

Toyota came up with the Etios at a budget and it is glaringly evident in its absence of quality and trim when comparing the Manza to that.

Please don't expect to pay peanuts, if you want quality irrespective of whether it is Tata-ji or Toyota-san. When you peanuts, you will get only monkeys.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by Nowden1

I had said that TATA should iron out niggles. Now, will they or won't they, only time will tell. The way they improved Vista and Manza over indica and indigo respectively, I am hopeful.

Yes, Toyota can definitely build a bi-cycle / auto-rickshaw with the same build quality of an LC200, but it will be priced twice the price of the bi-cycle / rickshaw built by Atlas / Bajaj. When Toyota tried to build a vehicle to price (Etios), hasn't the vehicle suffered on quality / reliability?

I really doubt that Niggles would be sorted out. When an 18 lac OTR Aria fails basic things like brakes, 8 lac OTR Storme should face niggles.

Compared to Other Manufactureres, Toyotas and Hondas have the least number of Horror Stories at least on TBHP.

[rkg]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Compared to Other Manufactureres, Toyotas and Hondas have the least number of Horror Stories at least on TBHP.

People think Toyota's and Honda's have less niggles because press is managed better to cover up these issues.

we Indian's have short memories if it concerns Foreign manufacturers.

Kindly check for Fortuner's brake pedal issue in net/mouthshut/even taem bhp. almost 70-80 percent of initial fortuners have brake pedal problems. Toyota changed them on the sly. if it can happen in 24 lakhs car for great Toyota stable, where is the reliability

Have any body raised hue and cry when a brand new BMW burnt in bangalore after delivery from showroom in the dec 2011?

New VW vento TDI is burnt and a person died recently. did it make news

has any one died in NANO fires? further what is the ratios of NANO sold to burnt. 6 reported cases out 2 lakhs sold.

People forget that more than two persons died in Honda city fires caused due auto locking of doors

Toyota has best reliability , hence it has to recall more than 10 million of their cars worldwide except in INDIA. Toyota is supplying the best Q & Q cars to INDIAN's than what it is supplying to USA citizens.

[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by rkg

People think Toyota's and Honda's have less niggles because press is managed better to cover up these issues.

we Indian's have short memories if it concerns Foreign manufacturers.

There is something called Consumer Reports. It is very reputed independent organization that tests not just automobiles but other home appliances and much more. Please check out their ratings on Toyota and Honda.

Originally Posted by rkg

Kindly check for Fortuner's brake pedal issue in net/mouthshut/even taem bhp. almost 70-80 percent of initial fortuners have brake pedal problems. Toyota changed them on the sly. if it can happen in 24 lakhs car for great Toyota stable, where is the reliability.

There were no issues regarding reliability of breaks on Fortuner. Owners reported that the breaks were not confidence inspiring. I haven't heard any case of brake fails in Fortuner. Toyota upgraded brakes of all Fortuners later on.

Originally Posted by rkg

Have any body raised hue and cry when a brand new BMW burnt in bangalore after delivery from showroom in the dec 2011?
New VW vento TDI is burnt and a person died recently. did it make news
has any one died in NANO fires? further what is the ratios of NANO sold to burnt. 6 reported cases out 2 lakhs sold.
People forget that more than two persons died in Honda city fires caused due auto locking of doors.

I agree, Nano fire issue was blown out way too much by media. At the same time, recent VW Vento fire issue is reported in news but the company name is not reported.

Originally Posted by rkg

Toyota has best reliability , hence it has to recall more than 10 million of their cars worldwide except in INDIA. Toyota is supplying the best Q & Q cars to INDIAN's than what it is supplying to USA citizens.

How many recalls Toyota has to issue compared to all other manufacturers? Again please go through Consumer Reports for reliability of Honda/Toyota.

I think, we are going OT here. Let's get back to Tata Safari Storme discussion.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

8 lac OTR Storme should face niggles.

Wow…You are so thorough with your pessimistic predictions. But please do continue, your ‘well researched’ insights do make an entertaining read.

I remember that when we used to live in the Middle East (late 80s, mid 90s) the Koreans used to sell their cars pretty cheap compared to mainstream Japanese or American alternatives. They were mostly underpowered, poor build quality, paint fade was common, transmission issues etc…
People who drove a Hyundai Stellar or the smaller Pony used to be giggled at. Even worse victims were NRIs who bought these Hyundais second hand, because they cost next to nothing used and one did not have to worry about resale values, there was none!!! Mind you Hyundai wasn’t a new car maker then, they had been in business since the mid-60s.

You would've had a really great time predicting the outcome of their future cars as well. Or maybe not considering how well Hyundai are doing nowadays (Worlds 4th biggest car maker!!) and also the fact that you yourself drive a Santro. A brilliant small car I must say.

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Compared to Other Manufactureres, Toyotas and Hondas have the least number of Horror Stories at least on TBHP.

In the latter half of the last decade alone Toyota had recalled 9 million cars worldwide!!! That is an astonishing figure especially for a company with such high standards of quality.
Toyota hid behind the excuse of faulty floor mats before further occurrences of braking failures and was finally rapped on the knuckles by the NHTSA. Toyota had to admit the issues they had with accelerator pedals and ABS software issues but not before allegedly killing 37 people.
Apologies for going

Tata have an uphill task on their hands, no doubt. Their poor reputation is their own doing and it will take lot of effort to continuously improve their quality and reliability. This will never happen overnight, reputation and trust take years to build.

Tata only have to look at their neighbour Mahindra to notice how well they have done on these fronts. Being VFM does not necessarily mean that customers should live with inferior quality and Mahindra have proven this time and again.

This is another major reason why folks are looking forward to the Storme; there is hope that for once Tata have got things right from day one.

[AVR]

Not to digress but if JD power is something to go by a current model Safari is higher than most suvs. Posted info sometime back so do check it out.
In fact higher than the Toyota Fortuner! Here's the link again. J D Power is a reasonably reliable metric in the Automotive industry!

Won't deny they have issues but writing off a product much before launch either requires immense foresight or solid inside information.

Cheers,
Adi

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by AVR

Not to digress but if JD power is something to go by a current model Safari is higher than most suvs. Posted info sometime back so do check it out.

JD Power has a number of surveys in India and Abroad. Most manufacturers do okay in the initial quality survey etc, but the Survey I used to watch is a JD Power survey called "Long Term Dependability Survey" or something like that which covers a period of 5 years of ownership. This is where the japs win hands down. In other surveys like Initial quality survey etc, koreans could be seen in the top spot.

Before assuming JD power as the bible, check which survey they are referring to and dig out what is covered int he survey and for what period.

[AVR]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Before assuming JD power as the bible, check which survey they are referring to and dig out what is covered int he survey and for what period.

True. The survey I was referring to and the only one I found which related to India was the 2011 Design, Performance and Execution Survey.
Surely not referring to it as 'The Bible' but just cited it as a slightly more relevant reference than using information from Consumer Reports in the US.
Let's wait and watch!
Cheers,
Adi

[condor]

Guys, hang in there. We have separate threads on quality issues. Please restrict your posts here to The Storme.

[Misguided]

Looks like Safari Storme thread has been hijacked
btw, I was wondering how some auto magzines has got a test drive of Storme even before the launch? Hoping that T-BHP will also be invited very soon to review.

[rkg]

Originally Posted by Nitrous Power

T

How many recalls Toyota has to issue compared to all other manufacturers? Again please go through Consumer Reports for reliability of Honda/Toyota.

I think, we are going OT here. Let's get back to Tata Safari Storme discussion.

That is what I meant by Indian's in general have higher tolerance limits with respect to any thing foreign.

Hence we feel recall of more than 10 million cars is not significant (almost entire production)

Today one can see in papers Nissan has to recall Micra (indian made exported to UK) , but NISSAN says no problem with micra sold in INDIA. How generous on the part of NISSAN to sell a better car to indian public and export a defective car to UK. I think this may be the real reason behind our higher tolerance limits for phoren, because we know these guys sell us better products than they do to the developed world

[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by rkg

That is what I meant by Indian's in general have higher tolerance limits with respect to any thing foreign.

Hence we feel recall of more than 10 million cars is not significant (almost entire production)

Today one can see in papers Nissan has to recall Micra (indian made exported to UK) , but NISSAN says no problem with micra sold in INDIA. How generous on the part of NISSAN to sell a better car to indian public and export a defective car to UK. I think this may be the real reason behind our higher tolerance limits for phoren, because we know these guys sell us better products than they do to the developed world

I wish to reply on your comments regarding Micra recall and Toyota recalls but I won't, as we are seriously going OT here. But, please go through the press release and you will understand that only certain number of Micras are impacted due to ECU problem and not all cars manufactured in Indian plant. It may have possible that only some specific batch was impacted.

Please, let's get back to Storme discussion.

[AVR]

The discussion was about expected quality issues in the Safari Storme based on issues with existing Safari.

Originally Posted by condor

Guys, hang in there. We have separate threads on quality issues. Please restrict your posts here to The Storme.

Perhaps if Tata gave us some updates we'd be more happy discussing them. As of now, Safari fans, detractors and fence-sitters are all getting impatient now. Lol.

[ajay_satpute]

I saw the Storme in flesh, finally. This was on the NH4 and thankfully I was just behind it on the Toll booth. And there was also the current Safari in the next toll booth lane. Looking at them side by side, I thought the Storme ain't that bad looking. At least not something that will bore you, discourage you from booking one. The rear of the Storme looked really good and had a modern feeling to it (Range Rover inspiration?).

If all the initial reports, speculations turn out to be real, then Storme should rock. For me the ideal price range for Storme is 8.5 to 10.5 lacs, but if Tatas decide to battle it against the XUV, then I will look somewhere else.

[GTO]

Note from Mod : Please restrict discussion on this thread to the Tata Storme ONLY. We have many other threads to discuss the quality & reliability of other manufacturers.