[AVR]

Not someone to bash the Safari given that I love it but here's a "dishonourable mention" if I may quote UK Yahoo! Cars site. A bit unfair I'd say. UK loves to bash Tata I feel after they bought their flagship brand JLR.

Here it is: Link

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I
From a marketing stand point it is always better for a manufacturer to call it seven seater. This is precisely the reason why manufacturers cramp tiny seats in the boot and call their SUVs 7 seaters abroad..

Nothing to do with marketing. Seven seater is required, othewise you have to meet tougher ARAI norms. 7 seaters enjoy lot more leeway.
Thats why Thar did not come with front facing seats. They had to make it a 7 seater.

[ajay0612]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

How does that seat helps? Remember Safari is never be a People Carrier. It is SUV with 5 person sit comfortably in it. If you want people carrier there is Xylo, Innova etc. options available.

Well. A family of 4+2 kids doesn't exactly require a people carrier. I ask for improved versatility/ functionality by improving a little on something they already have provisioned for (i.e. Jump Seats).

What makes you think it is fuel guzzler? Have you came across any Safari or driven it? Infact, Safari cost on road same as of people who drives Bullet on road.

My comment was based on fuel consumed per person :-).

Originally Posted by condor

Actually, I think you put it funnily . But then - how often do you travel to capacity in your vehicles ?

As told earlier, space for 4+2 kids & luggage is not too much to ask for. Anyway it is always more fun to travel with friends, relatives in one vehilce rather than 2 small cars.

Pls do check the definitions of a fuel guzzler. You can also check for the term gas-guzzler.

Thanks.

[condor]

Originally Posted by ajay0612

As told earlier, space for 4+2 kids & luggage is not too much to ask for.

But the Safari offers lots of space for even FIVE & their luggage !

Originally Posted by ajay0612

I ask for improved versatility/ functionality by improving a little on something they already have provisioned for (i.e. Jump Seats).

Anyway it is always more fun to travel with friends, relatives in one vehilce rather than 2 small cars.

If I look at the focus shown here on having jump seats it gives me the impression that you travel much more often with friends & relatives in one vehicle than with family (of four) ? Most people would buy a car for family & the size of their family, and travel more with a large group than with family. Am I missing something ?

It seems to me here that the jump seats are a deal-breaker. This one part will over-ride all other features that the Safari offers, and if it is not good, the Safari will get rejected. !!

[ajay0612]

Originally Posted by condor

But the Safari offers lots of space for even FIVE & their luggage !

Well. There is lot of difference between 5 & 6. The comfort goes out for a toss with that 6th one.

If I look at the focus shown here on having jump seats it gives me the impression that you travel much more often with friends & relatives in one vehicle than with family (of four) ? Most people would buy a car for family & the size of their family, and travel more with a large group than with family. Am I missing something ?

It seems to me here that the jump seats are a deal-breaker. This one part will over-ride all other features that the Safari offers, and if it is not good, the Safari will get rejected. !!

OK. Let me explain:
1. The MUVs like Xylo & Innova do not carry image of a family vehicle. A person driving alone in these will carry an image of Driver and not of the owner :-). While I don't care, but these get a big No from my family owing to their image.
2. Xylo/ Ertiga/ XUV do not come with split rear seat so luggage will have to be mounted on roof making it inconvenient and will also compromise handling. Innova does have enough space but it is costly, too van-like & carries Taxi image. It is not tough/ torquey enough to carry the load up the broken hill roads fully loaded.
3. Safari with 2 small front facing seat would suit me to the T as it leaves enough room for luggage while carrying 4+2 kids (The current jump seats are of no use as one can't enjoy the vistas through the windows while travelling). It does not carry a Taxi image. It is tough/ torquey enough to conquer the hills.

[anujmishra]

Originally Posted by ajay0612

Safari with 2 small front facing seat would suit me to the T as it leaves enough room for luggage while carrying 4+2 kids (The current jump seats are of no use as one can't enjoy the vistas through the windows while travelling). It does not carry a Taxi image. It is tough/ torquey enough to conquer the hills.

My kid and kids in family enjoys sitting in those two jump seats and they acquire those seats first than any others. When there is luggage at back at the level of jump seats they enjoy sleep also. I manage like that and those jump seats can become bed also.

With the front facing seats, I will be greatly compromising in luggage carrying capacity when open, which is not in the case of side facing. Also, these jump seats used once in a blue moon, when family or extended family visits us.

One more thing, by adding front facing seats I do not want to compromise the endless leg space for middle row that Safari provides. Including this reason Safari command value over and above MPVs available.

[ajay0612]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

With the front facing seats, I will be greatly compromising in luggage carrying capacity when open, which is not in the case of side facing.

How is that? (I suppose there is enough space in the middle which otherwise would not be usable with legs hanging there.)

Also, these jump seats used once in a blue moon, when family or extended family visits us.

Not the case with me. I expect to use them often.

[ra'ul M]

Originally Posted by ajay0612

Innova does have enough space but it is costly, too van-like & carries Taxi image. It is not tough/ torquey enough to carry the load up the broken hill roads fully loaded.

Sorry for going OT but apart from the lack of 4WD the Innova is tough/ torquey enough for any type of hill roads fully loaded.
And more reliable in the long haul.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by ajay0612

Not the case with me. I expect to use them often.

Originally Posted by ra'ul M

Sorry for going OT but apart from the lack of 4WD the Innova is tough/ torquey enough for any type of hill roads fully loaded.
And more reliable in the long haul.

I agree completely with ra'ul M. The Innova is your best bet, ajay0612, based on your requirements. I doubt there is any SUV in the same price range that can seat 7 quite often, and in comfort.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by ajay0612

1. Xylo/ Ertiga/ XUV do not come with split rear seat so luggage will have to be mounted on roof making it inconvenient and will also compromise handling. Innova does have enough space but it is costly, too van-like & carries Taxi image. It is not tough/ torquey enough to carry the load up the broken hill roads fully loaded.
3. Safari with 2 small front facing seat would suit me to the T as it leaves enough room for luggage while carrying 4+2 kids (The current jump seats are of no use as one can't enjoy the vistas through the windows while travelling). It does not carry a Taxi image. It is tough/ torquey enough to conquer the hills.

I do not agree on your comment about the Innova. Do you know of another vehicle that taxi operators favor more on the hills? Or another vehicle that customers ask more of. With its low body roll, reliable engine, a 3rd row that does not bounce much and also splits to accomodate both passenger and luggage, I do not know of any mpv/suv that is more popular in the Hills.

Only the 4WD can be an issue but even then, the Innovas are so popular up to Rohtang pass and beyond. And about handling, so important on mountain roads---try cutting lanes in a Safari while overtaking and do the same in an Innova. If nothing, it will help us understand the definition of the word.

I assume that when you say Safari is tough you mean looks and I agree that the Safari looks tougher. Of course if by tough you mean will it break down less, rattle less, look new after 5 years, start w/o a problem and have lesser niggles...I am sorry but the Innova beats the Safari hollow on all counts!

Finally, Toyota gives a premium customer service experience in the mass market segment that has to be experienced to be believed.

[condor]

@Ajay, if you want to compare the Safari & the Innova, and which car is better, I think you can discuss that in the "What car" section.

[ajay0612]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

I do not agree on your comment about the Innova. Do you know of another vehicle that taxi operators favor more on the hills? Or another vehicle that customers ask more of. With its low body roll, reliable engine, a 3rd row that does not bounce much and also splits to accomodate both passenger and luggage, I do not know of any mpv/suv that is more popular in the Hills.

Please go through my previous comments. 'Taxi image' is one of the reason I am not considering it at this point (strongly vetoed by my family).

Only the 4WD can be an issue but even then, the Innovas are so popular up to Rohtang pass and beyond. And about handling, so important on mountain roads---try cutting lanes in a Safari while overtaking and do the same in an Innova. If nothing, it will help us understand the definition of the word.

I am a sedate driver and do not intend to cut lanes so fast :-).

I assume that when you say Safari is tough you mean looks and I agree that the Safari looks tougher. Of course if by tough you mean will it break down less, rattle less, look new after 5 years, start w/o a problem and have lesser niggles...I am sorry but the Innova beats the Safari hollow on all counts!

Well. Try standing with your back supported against a door of Innova and then Safari. You will notice the difference. After all 50% extra weight must have been pasted somewhere :-).

Finally, Toyota gives a premium customer service experience in the mass market segment that has to be experienced to be believed.

That advantage is somewhat nullified as there is no Toyota dealer in my town, but TML has.

Originally Posted by condor

@Ajay, if you want to compare the Safari & the Innova, and which car is better, I think you can discuss that in the "What car" section.

Well. Well. I did not intend any such discussion even remotely :-). I was pulled into it. It all started with my comment on jump seats of Safari as below:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2713460

[the VTEC guy]

Guys please don't discuss comparison of Safari Storme with Innova and other vehicle in this thread. The comparison started with someone preferring front facing 3rd row vs. side facing jump seats. Again thats individual preference. And for a personal vehicle many tend to listen heart more than head.

[autocrat]

Its amusing to see any thread on tata / fiat vehicles becomes a tata / fiat bashing one. Especially when the vehicle has not even hit the road

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

My kid and kids in family enjoys sitting in those two jump seats and they acquire those seats first than any others. When there is luggage at back at the level of jump seats they enjoy sleep also. I manage like that and those jump seats can become bed also.

@anuj: I can see your logic completely. When I bought my Scorpio, one of the reasons was for the front facing third row seats. However, the interiors are so cramped that three rows of seats cannot be used practically and my third row ends up in the garage 90 percent of the time. Now, I just throw a bed at the back and kids sleep comfortably there. I feel I should have just stuck with the side facing seats as they will be there when I need them rather than having to remove them and keep them at home for luggage space.

However, the only advantage of front facing third row is that it gives space for the middle row to recline and this is helpful to take a nap in the middle row. The Safari and Scorpio with the side facing seats do not allow for the middle row to recline. Ideal set up to me is like the Fortuner/Pajero/Innova where the side facing seats can be folded away to the sides and there is enough room for the middle row to recline. However, our Indian manufacturers have not learned to design this way yet.