[aadix]

as i see it, safari/scoprios are bought mostly by people who travel a lot(atleast in ap) and generally sell the vehcile within four to five years of usage.

so as long the vehcile is problem free the first four to five years,then whats the issue with the refinemnt levels?,

i am pretty happy with my dec 99 safari, it's started showing signs of ageing from just a year.

mostly likely gonna replace it with an basic dicor.

checked out the new scorp yest, and all i can say i the back seat place is far less than my qualis.

not that impressed.

imo leaving aside,few quality issues and engine performance safari beats the scop in all counts.

[devarshi84]

But then isnt the price a major factor too?

you can 1-2 lacs buying a scorpio than a safari right?

[mxx]

i would choose the new Scorpio crde anyday.
I am bored of the Safari's looks. Heard that safari has lot of problems from owners(2 of my friends previously owned the old safari) .i am not sure the if dicor has any problems.
And most importantly, I like the way Mahindra has been upgrading the scorpio based on user feedback. The fact that M&M is not just resting on its laurels shows how bright Scorpio's future is( if they continue doing it ).

[w 12]

Originally Posted by veyron1

as you wish, sirjee;

THE GOOD...: to begin with, a startling treatment has been given at the rear, both mechanically and aesthetically; the tail lamps look pleasing, and is a vast improvement over the previous "bubble" units. it seems like mahindra is "rear-oriented", as the next big step in the form of the 5-link rear suspension seems to be a drastic improvement over it's leaf-springed variant too. the ride quality is a MAJOR improvement , and no "bouncing" effect from the predecessors experienced here; ride quality is still is a shade below safari DICOR, though. the steering has been weighed up quite a bit, and feels a LOT better, with nicer feedback and better effort (the scorpio scores over the DICOR in handling) ;all of which means that the scorpio is a much more stable car now, and takes speeds upto 140 kmph with confidence, MUCH unlike it's predecessor; i could't judge the remaining 20 kmph, however, as i didn't get enough roads. the engine, as before, is it's plus point.



THE BAD....: ill-fitting trims, panel gaps, factory-spec rickety fittings and that awkward adjustment lever placed BESIDE the steering wheel (which has to be moved up/down) for adjusting steering rake, are a few of the gawky stuff. and hey, guess what- no engine-bay light for a 9-lac rupee car; it's still a damn dealer fitment for 400 bucks. no power mirrors either. still. wasn't this supposed to be the "improved" scorpio...? and oh yes, no split/dual A/C as O.E either; another company-endorsed dealer fitment; the good thing is, at least you don't loose warranty if you opt for these fitments...and yeah, the hood scoop is just a ornament (D-U-H). and oh- almost forgot. the sliding rear-seats, although a revelation, still doesn't hide the fact that there isn't much space inside. the 3rd row occupants would keep their orthopaedics busy if the 2nd row was to be moved all the way backward. still, sliding the rear seats back DOES free up a little space though. the legroom is marginally better, although not in the same ballpark as the DICOR.







THE UGLY....: now here's a googly; the brakes used to fade before, and were not your best of buddies under panic/high speed braking. but at least the pedal had bite and feel- the wheels used to shed speed from the first 20 mm of pedal travel- a phenomenon much like the qualis (ever tried braking below 20 kmph on the qualis? i'll bet that you'll lock the rear 9 times out of 10 if you try pushing the pedal farther than 2-2.5 cms.). but now, it's become slightly hairier; suddenly, brake fade and lock-up isn't the issue. the pedal just keeps inching towards the floor, with no signs of speed retardation whatsoever...!! the efficacy of the rear LSPV is of serious doubt to me.of course, i'm pushing the envelope a li'l bit, but the "improved" brakes seem to have lost their bite, and the pedal play is a lot more than it's predecessor. i couldn't check out brake fade over a long distance- but harsh/high speed braking is still not it's forte'. and the brakes DO fade after repeated use...

all in all, is the improved scorpio crde good? yes. is it better? definitely. is it the best? well, not quite. the scorpio is still no all-rounder; space is still an issue, rear seat comfort isn't the best, the quality could be better, and hey- while we're at it, why isn't a borg-warner (optional), offered as a variant? the dealers still claim HUGE waiting periods for the 4x4, and guess what- they're manually engaging 4x4 mechanisms.

but still, the scorpio is the most practical MUV you can find for this sorta money....

Some questions..


1.Is power mirror standard in Safari / Innova ?

2. Which is the automobile in which brakes do not fade after repeated , especially high speed use? Which indian car is using F1 grade ceramic brake lining to avoid fading?

3. Borg warner electric shift is the norm for 4 x 4 scorpio..there is no manual shift..I have checked with the local dealer

4. Rear seat comfort and quality could be better for all automobiles..comfort and quality is like a moving goal post for all auto manufacturers

[toy car]

the new dicor has a cool look bt justt lack's by the milage....!!!!

[veyron1]

Originally Posted by w12

Some questions..

1.Is power mirror standard in Safari / Innova ?

2. Which is the automobile in which brakes do not fade after repeated , especially high speed use? Which indian car is using F1 grade ceramic brake lining to avoid fading?

3. Borg warner electric shift is the norm for 4 x 4 scorpio..there is no manual shift..I have checked with the local dealer

4. Rear seat comfort and quality could be better for all automobiles..comfort and quality is like a moving goal post for all auto manufacturers

Well, it seems like you have misunderstood a bit. Let me clarify.

1) In the Safari, yes, the power mirrors are standard on all variants. Optional on the Innova, even as dealer fitment, and O.E on the "V" variant. No power mirrors on the scorpio, even in Glx/Slx variants; when considered that the competitors fall in the same price range, you DO have to account for the equipment on offer. But since you brought it up, there are no alloy wheels on even the top end model of the Scorpio too, whereas you shall find them O.E on similarly priced competitors.

2) It seems you have misinterpreted what I wrote. Let me elaborate. What I meant was that the brakes fade even in the initial 10 mins of use, which I haven't experienced in my (ex) Safari, or the Innova, or the Pajero or the Endeavour. Try driving the 2.8 Glx Pajero, or the old Safari, or even the Innova, and you shall see what I'm talking about. And please, no corny quotations with respect to the prices categories; the older 2.0 Safari had MUCH better brake bite, feel and fade characteristics; and even though the Mahindra might not market the Scorpio as a Safari contender, price and market-wise, it IS.

3) Let me clarify on that part as well- the transfer case might be from Borg Warner, but it is not shift on the fly. I've checked. But then again, the one I drove could have been a "test" model, so let me check up on that once more.

4) Well, ALL aspects of automobiles change regularly, and benchmarks of yesterday are the minimal requirements of today. When we compare a vehicle, we compare it with respect to others in it's segment. What I intended to say was that the rear seat comfort of the Scorpio was not in the same ball park as the Safari or the Innova. Hence my quote on the comfort levels.

[w 12]

"And please, no corny quotations with respect to the prices categories; "

??? Which corny quotation? Who made it ? I am just stating facts as I see them.


" meant was that the brakes fade even in the initial 10 mins of use, which I haven't experienced .."

I have driven more than 15,000 kms so far in 3 different scorpios..this brake fade in 10 mins is something I haven't experienced so far...Yes there is a fade after consistent high speed driving for hours together..but that happens with all cars..ofcourse your experience can be totally different..

"Mahindra might not market the Scorpio as a Safari contender, price and market-wise, it IS."

I dont think so.. Scorpio sells 2500 - 3000 + units / month.., Safari may not do even 1/10th of that. If as you say , they are competing for the same market , Safari sales should have been much higher, especially as you say the Quality / VFM is higher in Safari.

The 4x2 Base Dicor LX in Bangalore has an OTR price of 9.1 lacs which goes upto 14.97 lacs for the topend 4 x 4 Vx. Scorpio OTR price range is between 7.3 lacs to 9.8 lacs in bangalore.So there is a substantial price difference

"the transfer case might be from Borg Warner, but it is not shift on the fly..."

There is some confusion here. As I have seen a new scorpio 4 X 4 with Borg Warner , with shift on the fly.. Even earlier scorpio 4 x 4 s had Borg Warner with shift on the fly.. and never with manual shift..

Alloys - you are right ..All scorpios have tubeless tyres but no alloys..the topend versions of Safari and Innova has alloys as OE.

[varunroy]

I am bored of the Safari's looks. Heard that safari has lot of problems from owners(2 of my friends previously owned the old safari) .i am not sure the if dicor has any problems.

Had been to the Tata Workshop today. Two guys with the Dicor were complaining about poor pick up. Apart from that they seem to have problems with the AC as well. One of them was saying that he had a tough time climbing up to Ooty via Masinagudi, the short route with 36 hairpin bends. I told him that he should have switched off the AC and seen the difference. The guy shot back at me saying that the AC of his Dicor never worked right from the time he left Bangalore. A peep at the odometer showed 2000+ kms.
Initially I was told that they had some software problem with the Crde, but then it was sorted out. Apperently I don't think they have been able to root out the problem. Sad, because I am Safari fan tooooooo, as much as steeroid.

So long....

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by varunroy

Had been to the Tata Workshop today. Two guys with the Dicor were complaining about poor pick up. Apart from that they seem to have problems with the AC as well. One of them was saying that he had a tough time climbing up to Ooty via Masinagudi, the short route with 36 hairpin bends. I told him that he should have switched off the AC and seen the difference. The guy shot back at me saying that the AC of his Dicor never worked right from the time he left Bangalore. A peep at the odometer showed 2000+ kms.
Initially I was told that they had some software problem with the Crde, but then it was sorted out. Apperently I don't think they have been able to root out the problem. Sad, because I am Safari fan tooooooo, as much as steeroid.

So long....

Have driven up to Ooty via both ways a few times and have only had an issue with boost when almost at Ooty. This is when the ECU needs to reset to be able to handle lower atmospheric pressures - just need to switch off and then switch on again. A short ciggie break will do the trick. The common rail delivers fuel at 1600 bar pressure and therefore lower atmostpheric pressure would mean lower boost - unless the ECU is able to detect and change pressure dynamically. Once you switch off, I suppose the ECU starts delivering fuel at the right pressure again.

As for the A/c the Subros unit on the Safari sucks. Quality is bad and its only after a few bits of troubleshooting that you get things sorted out - both Nitin and I have had issues with the A/c, though mine has been trouble free for the last 10,000 kms.

For the record, I drive with the a/c on all the time, hill station or not. Its usually not on for cooling but to keep pollution out - Ooty may be cool but it sure as hell is not pollution free. In fact pollution seems worse in Ooty than in the plains. Switching off the a/c is therefore not an issue.

[veyron1]

Originally Posted by w12

??? Which corny quotation? Who made it ? I am just stating facts as I see them.

Perhaps you got me wrong. What I meant to say was that one shouldn't think that I'm being impractical by mentioning the Pajero and the Scorpio or the Safari in the same breath.

Originally Posted by w12

I have driven more than 15,000 kms so far in 3 different scorpios..this brake fade in 10 mins is something I haven't experienced so far...Yes there is a fade after consistent high speed driving for hours together..but that happens with all cars..ofcourse your experience can be totally different..

Again, maybe the fade that I experienced was unique; still, I have experienced the same in other Scorpios too. But then, harsh braking from 130 kmph+ quite a few times do tend to fade the brakes. Nevertheless, what I meant to say was that the Scorpio's fade is MUCH more apparent than it's rivals.

Originally Posted by w12

I dont think so.. Scorpio sells 2500 - 3000 + units / month.., Safari may not do even 1/10th of that. If as you say , they are competing for the same market , Safari sales should have been much higher, especially as you say the Quality / VFM is higher in Safari.

Well, lesser sales volumes do not mean that the car does not fall in the same price bracket or aim at the same consumer category. For example, the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry are aimed at the same market, but the Accord sold 3327 units whereas the Camry sold just 794 units, during 05-06*.

Yes, the VFM given by Safari is more, but the sales volumes do not speak the fact that more than 70% of Scorpio consumers go in for base variants, and are fleet/tourist operators. The Safari is marketed as a lifestyle vehicle, and hence even though it competes with the Scorpio price-wise, it is not the 'obvious' choice due to the practicality factor.

Yes, there's a HUGE price difference between the variants of the Scorpio and the Safari, but consider the fact that the Safari LX 4x4 offers more equipment and VFM than the Scorpio Slx 4x2. If we even out the fields and consider the Scorpio 4x4 (which retails for about 10.2 here, and demands a waiting period of 3 months+), the Safari LX 4x4 STILL offers more equipment and VFM, and is cheaper.

Originally Posted by w12

There is some confusion here. As I have seen a new scorpio 4 X 4 with Borg Warner , with shift on the fly.. Even earlier scorpio 4 x 4 s had Borg Warner with shift on the fly.. and never with manual shift..

Hmm...perhaps I'm wrong; like I said, the one that I saw could have been a different model. I shall check it up again.

*- Source: ACI, May 06' ED.

[Insane Devil]

the new Scorpio is far better than the Safari! it looks like an import SUV from dubai or somewhere the rear end is awesome, the break lights, and the spoiler! and the front end also is quiet good! they cud have done some mods to the headlights... interiors are lot better now, and well the driveability is also great they say now.!

[maxbhp]

Safari is a good offroader in a different meaning , I mean offroading bcoz most of the time its not on the road but in Tata's service centres , where as scorpio is the only SUV (doesnt justify the tag name) this side of 10 lacs you can safely take to mounatins unless you are sure that you have a Tata service centre some where on the way . Now I am not taking the SUPER DUPER Gypsy into account , coz I dont think the rest of the family will appreciate the ride.

[nitinbhag]

- For 4x4 fans: Try asking for a Scorpio 4x4 delivery..
The local Mahindra dealer actively de-sells the 4x4. Various responses are: delivery is several months, Mahindra only makes it to order, the FWD drive problems continue as they have not changed the front suspension.. God knows where the truth lies.

- Pl read the last Top Gear. The Scorpio scores only on in-city practicality and engine RPM band.

- Brakes & handling on the new Scorpio are still as scary as earlier. I was scared witless at speeds beyond 80 kmph.

- Look at the Safari side profile and you will fall in love all over again.. Especially with some good film on the glass. This is a matter of personal opinion, but to me, the Scorpio looks downright ugly beside a Safari

- Coming from years of driving nimble petrol cars, the Dicor does feel a bit sluggish in the city. But the joy of driving it on the highway and off road is worth it. One has to adapt one's drving style. Anybody who needs to learn this should meet Steer. He has beaten the pants off modded Zens, Baleno and Hondas.

- Its a vehicle that makes most sense if you want a 4x4 for VFM price. I would buy a Dicor all over again.. It will be several years before an equivalent is available within 10-12 lakhs.

[maxbhp]

Its an SUV , and its high so obviously what ever you do the problem of 9.8 m/sec sq. exist , in other words centre of gravity . Its scary may be now try doing a right hander at around 90 in a safari . The feed back you get from it is as clear as Indian politics.

And yes , Highway manners of Safari is impeccable ..that is endowed for every tat products from Sierra , Estate , Sumo .

Take it this way Nitin I travel around 50000kms in a year you think Safari can do it ?

Scorpio is obviously ugly , but see it this way Safari was designed in conjuction with Indica and Aria concepts with feed back from IDEA where as scorpio was designed in house .

Now Mahindra truly deserves a round of applause , it had the guts to invest on scorpio and its paying off well , last financial year it sold 33000 + units .

And if you are concerend about ride and highway stability try out innova .

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by maxbhp

Its scary may be now try doing a right hander at around 90 in a safari .

Seeing that you're from Thrissur - I regularly take the curved exit from the town into the highway at Mannuthy at those speeds. Thats a left-hander, though. If you want a right hander, there are a few fast ones on the NH to Palghat from Trichur. Try it in a Scorp and tell me what you think.

Originally Posted by maxbhp

Take it this way Nitin I travel around 50000kms in a year you think Safari can do it ?

I log in about 3000 kms on every visit back home for about a week. No issues.

Originally Posted by maxbhp

Safari was designed in conjuction with Indica and Aria concepts with feed back from IDEA where as scorpio was designed in house .

Safari is an IAD product, not IDEA. If you want to get an idea of where the Scorpio came from, take a look at the Terracan. Somebody mentioned that the New Scorpio looks like a vehicle from Dubai - we do not have vehicles here with air scoops that are sealed shut and tail lamp clusters that are purely decorative and have no lights inside. At least none that the manufacturer sells with dummy scoops and tail lamps. Phenomenal how little it takes to fool people!

Originally Posted by maxbhp

Now Mahindra truly deserves a round of applause , it had the guts to invest on scorpio and its paying off well , last financial year it sold 33000 + units .

That they do. Anybody with the guts to introduce a new automobile on their own and make it succeed deserves the praise.

That said, there is a fundamental difference between these two products. The Scorpio is perfect if you spend most of your time in the city with very occassional forays into the highways - its highway manners then dont make that much of a difference to you. The Safari, on the other hand, is perfect for those who log in long miles regularly. The comfort on the vehicle is something Mahindra cannot replicate, and in any case it is one whole size bigger than the Scorpio. It is a much more usable SUV, while the Scorpio is more of a lifestyle vehicle.