[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

This would lead to one thing, either they might sell out the factory and exit india.

I don’t think they will have plans to exit India operations. Once our market grows, we will see lot of low volume manufacturers survive without much of problem. And in Fiat’s case the engine manufacturing, supply and export will ensure a steady revenue for them to survive and more.

But yes, a lot depends on how the brand Fiat perform globally. Every year we are seeing quite a few brands withdrawn/closed globally.

[StarrySky]

Indigo+Manza number is about 8-9K monthly. Even if we assume Manza sells 6K units out of that, I don't think it's a big number to lose IF Fiat wants to make India an export hub. They would also be hoping to recover those numbers by increasing their own domestic sales (and introducing new models).

I find it a positive that Fiat does not want to depend on Tata to run it's plant. Something like a statement of intent.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Now the point boils down to one thing. "Why Ending Manza production in fiat plant? Lending the factory to make manza's will fetch FIAT some money. So why ending it? Anyways, FIAT is not making any money by selling Its cars."

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

But until more models come in, the plant can simply run a couple of hours shift to cater to the current demand of Punto and Linea.

Originally Posted by vb-san

I don’t think they will have plans to exit India operations.

I had heard from sources and reported in the Fiat dealership thread (not letting them out) that Fiat is coming up with a few more models (not revealed to me, but one of them is a sub Punto car) in 2013. Perhaps they would need the factory capacity for this.

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Indigo+Manza number is about 8-9K monthly. Even if we assume Manza sells 6K units out of that, I don't think it's a big number to lose IF Fiat wants to make India an export hub.

6K Manzas a month, does it sell that much?

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

I had heard from sources and reported in the Fiat dealership thread (not letting them out) that Fiat is coming up with a few more models (not revealed to me, but one of them is a sub Punto car) in 2013. Perhaps they would need the factory capacity for this.

That probably should be the Panda, quite a sensible car in the range of Brio, i10 etc.

It will be interesting to see if they will setup separate sales and service team for the Jeep brand, especially since its in a niche segment.

[nkrishnap]

The FIAT plant currently has an annual capacity of 200,000 units, that roughly 16,667 units a month.

Now if Manza was utlizing around 6K units, which will roughly translate into 36% of plant capacity. Add to it around 12600 units of Punto and Linea which will add up another 6% and take the utilization to around 42%

Are Vistas manufactured in this plant? If yes add another 4K units = 48000 per annum. So another 24%

The total utilization would be 42+24 = 66% which is still grossly under utilized. The plant still has a lot of capacity left to accommodate the small car + Jeep products (if bought through CKD route).

With just the statement of intent, FIAT cannot generate money from the Plant operations.

PS: If they have that many models + export plans to utilize the plant completely, its better for FIAT. Also does this signal better plastic and component quality?

[avira_tk]

Jeep is a brand that suffers from quality issues that plague most American manufacturers, the joke about the Cherokee is that the fuel in the tank is worth more than the vehicle itself.

I hope some real improvement happens before they launch in India and earn a reputation like Fiat - and go nowhere.

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

The FIAT plant currently has an annual capacity of 200,000 units, that roughly 16,667 units a month.

Now if Manza was utlizing around 6K units, which will roughly translate into 36% of plant capacity. Add to it around 12600 units of Punto and Linea which will add up another 6% and take the utilization to around 42%

Are Vistas manufactured in this plant? If yes add another 4K units = 48000 per annum. So another 24%

The total utilization would be 42+24 = 66% which is still grossly under utilized. The plant still has a lot of capacity left to accommodate the small car + Jeep products (if bought through CKD route).

With just the statement of intent, FIAT cannot generate money from the Plant operations.

PS: If they have that many models + export plans to utilize the plant completely, its better for FIAT. Also does this signal better plastic and component quality?

Oops.. you missed that, The plant capacity is 3L+ Engines and 2Lakh cars.
So 1Lakh engines for maruti. This was recently revised to supply 2lakh units. So this would change your equation of Plant utilization levels.

Regarding Manza, Manza is exported to some other countries too. And these export ones are made in either Tata/Fiat plant. The manza's domestic quality and export quality are different. so they are made seperately.

Originally Posted by vb-san

I don’t think they will have plans to exit India operations. Once our market grows, we will see lot of low volume manufacturers survive without much of problem. And in Fiat’s case the engine manufacturing, supply and export will ensure a steady revenue for them to survive and more.

This is quite possible. They hardly sell 300 - 500 cars in a month. Even if they want to grab a decent position in our Team BHP sales charts, they need to add a hundred of sales and service centres. 100 sales and service centres... man the real estate cost is high and i dont think that FIAT will be capable of doing it. Yeah.. they have got a 2000 cr loan approved but they have to pay 400 Cr to indian government now.

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

This is quite possible. They hardly sell 300 - 500 cars in a month. Even if they want to grab a decent position in our Team BHP sales charts, they need to add a hundred of sales and service centres. 100 sales and service centres... man the real estate cost is high and i dont think that FIAT will be capable of doing it. Yeah.. they have got a 2000 cr loan approved but they have to pay 400 Cr to indian government now.

The talk of Fiat selling the factory and exiting India at this point of time sounds absolutely illogical and rubbish to me at a time when they are setting up independent dealership.

Do remember that Fiat's plan is to setup 80+ dealership by Mar'13. And more dealers by end of 2013 if the statement from Mr. Atanasio is to be believed.

The 400 crore which you are referring is still being contented and is not owed by current Fiat India.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

This would be one good act from FIAT side.
Now the point boils down to one thing. "Why Ending Manza production in fiat plant? Lending the factory to make manza's will fetch FIAT some money. So why ending it? Anyways, FIAT is not making any money by selling Its cars."

Looks more like "Economic Times" kind of report..
The plant is jointly owned by Tata Motors and Fiat (50:50 JV). Tata Motors is currently loosing money in this JV. So it is possible that TM will exit the JV, which menas FIAT has to bring in more money to buy out its partner. This will benefit Tata Motors as a company, as it will be able to recover some money(also stop losing money) and re-invest in R&D. Also foreign media reported talks of Tata Motors trying to partner with another mulinational OEM for Engine technology, it could be mainly for Jaguar(Contact with Ford will end in the near future), but can be used in Tata cars also if need arise. Also note that Fiat could still supply engines to Tata, even if Tata exist the JV, and this will be cheaper for TM than continue investing in Fiat plant. (Ford still supplies engines to Jaguar). As the JV did not took off as expected, If FIAT buys out Tata in JV, it will be a win-win for Tata Motors. But it will all depends Fiat's willingness to invest in India. Do they have the money to invest (also management focus) while Europe is not doing well and North America, still issues in buying out Chrysler.
We do not know the long term strategy of Tata Motors ( Tata and Jaguar together) and Fiat, so this report is more of speculation than real facts.

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Oops.. you missed that, The plant capacity is 3L+ Engines and 2Lakh cars.
So 1Lakh engines for maruti. This was recently revised to supply 2lakh units. So this would change your equation of Plant utilization levels.

Regarding Manza, Manza is exported to some other countries too. And these export ones are made in either Tata/Fiat plant. The manza's domestic quality and export quality are different. so they are made seperately.

I nowhere mentioned about the utilization of the engine plant. I was talking about the unit that makes the cars and not just the engines.

I am not too sure, they have different assembly lines for the domestic and export Manza. If so my reaction is

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

The talk of Fiat selling the factory and exiting India at this point of time sounds absolutely illogical and rubbish to me at a time when they are setting up independent dealership.

Do remember that Fiat's plan is to setup 80+ dealership by Mar'13. And more dealers by end of 2013 if the statement from Mr. Atanasio is to be believed.

The 400 crore which you are referring is still being contented and is not owed by current Fiat India.

Yeah.. i do remember. There are other companies, which were about to start a factory in india like Peugeot, however because of economic situations in europe, they have cancelled their plans in india. Isn't it?

I think FIAT needs to pay those 400 Cr. i think they have already filed a petition related to this, however the payment should be made. They may get a refund once this is settled.

Yeah, i felt like they might leave india. In a price sensitive and a challenging market predominantly dominated by Japs and koreans, It would be a DOA Challenge for FIAT, if they take it aggressively from Here. The Other European brands are VW, Skoda which hardly have a market share. Even they are struggling despite of having service network. FIAT has no service network at all
Effectively if they want to make a significant up move in the market. it is a real tough job. Plant Cost + real estate cost + dealers freebies + rising employee cost + effective spares distribution + operate at low profit level + make a car like a TANK which should give better FE than a Jap car, at a price cheaper than other JAP car to attract customer. OMG... Rolling on the floor laughing. and it ain't a joke in today's scenario.

Originally Posted by teamveevee

Looks more like "Economic Times" kind of report..
The plant is jointly owned by Tata Motors and Fiat (50:50 JV). Tata Motors is currently loosing money in this JV. So it is possible that TM will exit the JV, which menas FIAT has to bring in more money to buy out its partner. This will benefit Tata Motors as a company, as it will be able to recover some money(also stop losing money) and re-invest in R&D.
We do not know the long term strategy of Tata Motors ( Tata and Jaguar together) and Fiat, so this report is more of speculation than real facts.

You are correct. It would be a Win Win for Tata Motors for sure.
Thanks, i never knew that the Ranjangaon plant is a 50-50 JV with Tata. I was in the assumption that it is owned by FIAT. If FIAT wants to exit this JV, then it is a real costly affair for them.

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

I nowhere mentioned about the utilization of the engine plant. I was talking about the unit that makes the cars and not just the engines.

I am not too sure, they have different assembly lines for the domestic and export Manza. If so my reaction is

oops.. "The total utilization would be 42+24 = 66% which is still grossly under utilized. The plant still has a lot of capacity left to accommodate the small car + Jeep products (if bought through CKD route).
"
These lines misguided me. So tried adding some value.

[volkman10]

Chrysler, Jeep set for India entry, speculated entry at 30- 40 lakhs, if locally assembled.

Grand Cherokee, which even for Jeep is a landmark car. Built on the same platform as the Mercedes-Benz M-class (due to Daimler’s erstwhile ownership of Chrysler), the new Cherokee boasts the stiffest chassis in its class. Some Jeep traditions are carried over; you get that famous toothy, seven-slat grille up front, a low-ratio transfer case and a Selec-Terrain dial (much like Range Rover’s ‘Terrain Response’ system). Under the hood is a common-rail diesel motor that has been designed and engineered by Fiat, but built by diesel specialists VM Motori. Displacing 2987cc, this V6 is reputed to be silky-smooth and has bags and bags of torque.

http://www.autocarindia.com/News/325...dia-entry.aspx

[bobbafett]

Unfortunately, Jeep as a brand does not have a great reputation for reliability and technological advancement in its home market. But then as we all know, stranger things have happened. A similar downmarket brand like Skoda has managed to become upmarket luxury car maker in India (with the attitude to boot!). Having said that, The Jeep wrangler is a very exciting prospect, and will certainly appeal to those buyers who want to have a serious off road vehicle with the requisite comfort and safety features and good quality (something the Thar does not have) - but of course only few will be able to afford its CKD/CBU price!

[nkrishnap]

The wrangler though might do what a Thar is supposed to do, we should not be comparing it simply because of the different price points these two come at.

One could buy probably around 3-4 Thars depending on the price of the Wrangler.

I dont think any launching happening today. There might be announcements about future launches and the probably a few dealerships and related announcements.

[Autocop]

Launching Jeep at that price is sheer rubbish under current market circumstances. I don't think Jeep/Fiat/Chrysler brands command enough global/local reputation that our market would allow them to launch Jeep as CKD at 30-40 lakh, and then, allow them to localize later and sell at reduced price. It's a wild dream. Seriously hope it doesn't exist in Fiat-Chrysler management's initial plans.

Fiat-Chrysler needs to focus on brining affordable products in tandem (similar to what Nissan-Ranault or VW-Skoda are doing) under each of the brands that distinguish themselves from competition. IMO, they should look at establishing both as seperate brands with their own independant sales/service network, rather than having both Fiat-Chrysler products available under same dealership.