[sajanjohn]

Just read this news. Maruti Suzuki crosses 10 million sales mark today. Kudos to Maruti for the big milestone.

New Delhi, Feb 9 (IANS) Maruti Suzuki Thursday said it has evolved to meet the demands of a changing India and crossed the 10 million cumulative domestic sales mark.

The 10 millionth vehicle, a Red Swift Vxi, was sent to Coimbatore Thursday from the company’s Manesar plant.

Source: - Maruti Suzuki crosses 10 million sales mark

[jack7]

It just crossed my mind while I was looking at Honda and Toyota's sales numbers that even though Toyota's entry in the country was much later than Honda's they played out a different strategy and now they are in the top 5 and Honda is on the other end. I'm sure after Honda brings in their diesels variants it would bring them back up but as of today it’s sad to see a brand along with new entries and HM-Mitsubishi

[manojmis]

Diesel did hurt the Honda, but that's not the only factor for the figures we see in these charts. The Japanese earthquake and the Thailand floods did the majority of the damages.
Went to their showroom recently only to find the big showroom sporting just one Civic and an Accord.
They simply don't have a City/Jazz/Brio even for display, forget about selling them.

[B103]

World over, Honda is considered as a brand more premium than Toyota. They sell less than Toyota in almost every country. Among Japanese cars, generally Honda vehicles hold the highest resale value in North America.

They are not considered as a typical mass car manufacturer and the branding is consciously done so. You would have noticed the neighborhood Honda salesman frequently reminding you -- "Sir, this is a Honda and ...". Needless to say, this is a strategy from Honda as part of branding. Of course, world wide, they are held with high regard with respect to quality and reliability.

Again, Honda is considered as a manufacturer who make sportier cars as compared to Toyota. Compared to Germans, Japanese cars are easy on wallet to maintain and Honda too fits in this category.

[shortbread]

@ B103,

You are talking of Honda of circa 90s and not the present moment. Those days Honda's line up included the likes of the Prelude, Integra, CRX, Accord/Civic typeRs, NSX and towards the end the S2000. Today though they have a line up thats even more boring than the Koreans.

Today there is not much to differentiate between Toyota and Honda, they make mass market cars. Actually with the LFA and now the GT86 Toyota has two rear wheel drive sports cars while Honda has zilch!!

As far as sales volume goes Honda very much wants to sell in much better numbers but are struggling against rivals with very competitive and sometimes better products.

Forget Toyota, in the last few years even Hyundai is giving them a hammering. They have already overtaken them in Europe, even in the US (which is Honda's biggest and most important market) Hyundai/Kia (8.6% US market share as of Jan'12) are breathing down Honda/Acura 's neck (9.1%) and the Koreans are expected to overtake Honda in the US this year, a situation unthinkable of a few years ago.

Just this week Moody's have downgraded Honda's credit rating to 'Negative'.

But if any company can turn this around it is Honda, theres plenty of things they can do:

• Get a better diesel line up, already taking the first step with the 1.6 diesel.
• They need to bring the VFM proposition back into the equation. Expecting people to pay a premium for a Honda is not going to work simply because nowadays theres nothing premium about a Honda compared to competition!!
• Where has Honda's engineering brilliance gone?!! They used to be the kings of 4 cly petrol engines but not anymore. While competition have upgraded to technologies like direct petrol injection, turbo/supercharging, Honda seems to be left wanting.
• They need to bring back their sports cars. Today Honda's lineup is even more boring than a Deve Gowda speech!! I pray the new NSX they have announced will not be a highly overpriced hybrid.

I am not a Honda hater, but an ardent critic of Honda's present direction.

[chevelle]

Originally Posted by shortbread

@ B103,

• Where has Honda's engineering brilliance gone?!! They used to be the kings of 4 cly petrol engines but not anymore. While competition have upgraded to technologies like direct petrol injection, turbo/supercharging, Honda seems to be left wanting.
• They need to bring back their sports cars. Today Honda's lineup is even more boring than a Deve Gowda speech!! I pray the new NSX they have announced will not be a highly overpriced hybrid.

I am not a Honda hater, but an ardent critic of Honda's present direction.

They had a turbo charged engine in RDX in USA for long time. It was not a good seller because of poor FE and other issues. They got rid of it with 2013 RDX and put in V6 which is expected to put better numbers all around. Honda themselves agreed to having made a disaster step with current civic being so low-grade according to their standards and also the flop of this turbo engine. I guess they should stick to what they do best - great VTEC engines.

For sports cars, i agree, they have none. That's the problem, they need a RWD sports car pronto to take on FT-86. LFA is an overpriced halo car, i won't even consider it mainstream. They just built it to show what they are capable of. NSX will be better than that for sure what with great ESH-AWD, looks and possibly awesome v6.

You won't believe, but with recovery from flood and earthquake, they actually went back to selling good numbers of civic which was brought done by one and everyone.

[Bh.P]

^^
I think the blip in Honda's performance is due to two reasons

1. Supply chain issues due to natural calamities.
I believe they will sort this out in the near future and bounce back to pre-calamity numbers, if not better.

2. Lack of diesel engines.
IMHO, even today Honda has the best cars (mechanically) in the segments they operate, considering only petrol.
If diesel was not subsidized in India, then I doubt the Ventos and the Vernas would come anywhere close to the City, or the i20 to the Jazz. It really pinches me to see my tax being spent on the drive of a person driving a upmarket diesel car. I am sure government has taken cognizance of this fact and there would be some policy that comes up to take care of this. Recently read an article which indicated the tax on diesel cars could increase to take care of this issue, causing diesel cars to be dearer by around 1L. If that happens, petrol car makers are back in business. If the auto lobby will let that happen is a different question.

Rest of the factors like one brand having superior sports/race cars etc. does not matter much to the common driver, except to show case their future R&D strengths.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by jack7

It just crossed my mind while I was looking at Honda and Toyota's sales numbers that even though Toyota's entry in the country was much later than Honda's they played out a different strategy and now they are in the top 5 and Honda is on the other end. I'm sure after Honda brings in their diesels variants it would bring them back up but as of today it’s sad to see a brand along with new entries and HM-Mitsubishi

Infact earlier including on TBHP we all used to praise the Honda strategy vs that of Toyota. But that has I guess got to their heads while Toyota has been making the right baby moves Honda has just kept on taking one bad decision after another. Of course Honda has also been hit by a double impact on the natural dissaster front so we need to wait and watch for them to reclaim some of what they have lost.

[FlyingSpur]

[quote=Bh.P;2679015...or the i20 to the Jazz.[/quote]

The i20 has always been hugely successful, even before the diesel was introduced. The Jazz never came close, primarily because of pricing. I remember very clearly that in Oct '09, the i20 Asta 1.2 was 6.49 lac OTR Mumbai while the Jazz was introduced at 8.49 lac OTR Mumbai. It had nothing to offer for 2 lacs extra, most certainly not. In fact, it was very underequipped compared to the i20 Asta. If the difference was ~50k, then agreed, most would have considered going for the better-engineered, more spacious and higher quality Jazz.

Not getting confrontational here, just thought I'd highlight the point about the hatchback segment

[ghostrider]

Interesting that the Cruze still seems to be king of the hill in the D1 segment if I've interpreted the figures correctly:

• Cruze: 553
• Civic: 176
• Corolla: 785 (but that's petrol and diesel combined)
• Jetta: 251
• Laura: 378
• Fluence: 102

The fact that the VW only sold 251 Jettas indicates that they've missed a trick with their pricing. It's a great car but VW after-sales ain't cheap, and that sticker price is a little hard to digest when you slot it next to a Cruze / Laura.
They could have lowered the entry barriers and done a LOT more volume if it was about a lac cheaper than it is.

And only 176 Civics? Looks like Honda's ridiculous pricing policies (along with the ridiculous petrol prices) are coming home to roost.

[aseem]

Look at Ford Fiesta, selling as much as Honda City with a 100% increase MOM due to year end discounts. Goes to show how much potential this car has if priced correctly and the word of mouth about the car is spreading !!!

[Nimish anthony]

Fiat has really worked hard to reach these amazing sales figures.
People have started to believe for the value for money and the ownership experience of the present owners. Great going FIAT. Hope they launch the GP Sport this year.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by ghostrider

The fact that the VW only sold 251 Jettas indicates that they've missed a trick with their pricing. It's a great car but VW after-sales ain't cheap, and that sticker price is a little hard to digest when you slot it next to a Cruze / Laura.

They could have lowered the entry barriers and done a LOT more volume if it was about a lac cheaper than it is.

Good point there. This is one segment which is way over-priced than what it should be. The regular C-segment cars’ top variants hover around 10 lakhs (e.g.; Vento, Rapid etc.), and ideally the next level should fit in between 11 to 15 lakhs.

But unfortunately manufacturers play the premium tag a bit too much (especially VW and Skoda), and their top end variants have an ex-showroom price around 18 lakhs. On the other hand, with Cruze, the sane pricing is playing to their advantage. And IMHO, the Fluence is priced quite decently, and could garner more sales with a wider sales & service network (which could happen with the arrival of the Duster).

Originally Posted by ghostrider

And only 176 Civics? Looks like Honda's ridiculous pricing policies (along with the ridiculous petrol prices) are coming home to roost.

Not surprising, especially with the stories about the launch of new Civic. I am sure the 176 nos. happened because of some heavy discounts.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by ghostrider

The fact that the VW only sold 251 Jettas indicates that they've missed a trick with their pricing. It's a great car but VW after-sales ain't cheap, and that sticker price is a little hard to digest when you slot it next to a Cruze / Laura..

VW Jetta Highline Manual = 21.5 L on road in Bangalore- no discounts
Skoda Superb Manual = 23 L on road, I lakh discount assured, more if you wave the greens - more metal, xenons, airbags, leathr, electric seats on both+ memory, sunroof,

Unless you want diesel, go figure!!

[ghostrider]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Good point there. This is one segment which is way over-priced than what it should be. The regular C-segment cars’ top variants hover around 10 lakhs (e.g.; Vento, Rapid etc.), and ideally the next level should fit in between 11 to 15 lakhs.
But unfortunately manufacturers play the premium tag a bit too much (especially VW and Skoda), and their top end variants have an ex-showroom price around 18 lakhs. On the other hand, with Cruze, the sane pricing is playing to their advantage.

I agree with you completely. In my mind, these prices are ridiculous. The Cruze probably offers the most bang for your buck in that segment. I've seen the newer Cruze models and the fit and finish of the interiors is wayyy better than cars that are a 12-24 months old. The rear bench is still not great but this is a driver's car and it's got the best engine and the best toys in the segment. The Jetta (great car) doesn't even come with climate control and costs more than all the others in the segment.

Originally Posted by ajmat

VW Jetta Highline Manual = *21.5 L on road in Bangalore- no discounts
Skoda Superb Manual *= 23 L on road, I lakh discount assured, more if you wave the greens - more metal, xenons, airbags, leathr, electric seats on both+ memory, sunroof,*
Unless you want diesel, go figure!!

That's exactly what I mean. I was talking with the Marketing Head of VW India the other day and despite the fact that he's a good guy personally, I get the impression that VW seems to think that charging premiums over other manufacturers is their god-given right. Ironic, considering VW trails all their segment competitors overseas. I lived in California for a while and Jettas have the worst resale value of any car in that segment because it's a well-known fact that they have the worst durability and reliability.

Originally Posted by vb-san

Not surprising, especially with the stories about the launch of new Civic. I am
sure the 176 nos. happened because of some heavy discounts.

Im not so sure it's got anything to do with the impending launch of the new model. That news only broke in the last couple of weeks and you'll find that Civic sales have been trailing the segment average long before that. I've come to realize that 90% of the Indian car-buying public knows absolutely nothing about cars and that includes upcoming new models. They buy their car because of the perceived status associated with that particular brand and model, nothing more. I think the Civic is in a slump because Honda's star has finally waned.
The ridiculous Honda infatuation that most Indians have has finally dissipated (somewhat) and people realized that Honda products are usually overpriced. Honda milked it for as long as they could but they're now feeling the heat big time.