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Old 9th February 2012, 10:51   #31
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

The very term MUV is designed for carrying more no. of people than an SUV. Though Sumo has some kind of SUV capabilities, the end useage is more in rough/ rural / hill areas with avg creature comforts.
We can say it as ' de rated ' ( Though Technically not) SUV to some extent.

The entire design package is targeted at a segment where,

1. More no. of people carrying capacity.
2. More low end torque to carry these people.
3. Restriction on high cruising speeds to ensure safety due to point no. 2.
4. Lesser comfort features comparatively ( Higher cabin NVH, drive comfort, etc)
5. Shorter over all length and other dimensions to ensure its maneuverability.
6. Finally lesser price point

are a prime concern to meet its mass market / taxi/ rural applications.

On the contrary, Safari is more designed towards,

1. High end curising speeds and off roading capabilities
2. High comfort zones for the occupants including large leg and head room. The 6th and 7th Passengers can't sit long hours in those captain seats unlike a Sumo.
3. More no. of features and driving comfort( Lower NVH, wider tyres for driving comfort, Higher G.C,etc).
4. Higher price point as this is more resticted to Luxury segment and not used as a people carrier.

Hence, by capability, looks or size, even though Sumo to some extent is sharing Safari's specs / GB, it cannot be a complete SUV like a Safari.

I am restricting the comparision only to these two, and not extending it to any other brand or models.

Well to have a say an MUV can be an SUV to some extent but not Vice Versa. What Say?
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Old 9th February 2012, 10:57   #32
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

Will take the reference here to the Sumo Grande 2.2 vs the Safari Dicore 2.2.

The Sumo Grande is tuned for effeciency and the interiors designed to take lots of people. The Grande belts out about 120 Bhp from the same engine that is tuned for performance in the Safari and gives out 140 Bhp.

Yes the question is really valid. Infact in you were to check out the TATA in Sport site you would find that the Sumo Grande won 2 of the top 3 positions in a recent rally.

Infact most Safari's sold too are just 4X2 versions, but the safari is clearly designed to be safer, more luxurious and less of a people carrier than the Sumo Grande.

Yet if someone feels that the Sumo Grande is close to being a SUV one has to accept that view as well. The Aria infact has faced the same problem of bridging the gap between an MUV, Sedan & SUV and though the company and I prefer to call it a crossover many find the similarity in shape to the Innova prompt people to call it an MUV and then on the other hand with a 4X2 varient on hand that can't be denied either. The Merc G Wagon looks similar to the older Sumo than any thing else yet that one is clearly an SUV. The Innova an MUV seats people in much more comfort compared to it's much more expensive elder brother the Fortuner which is a AWD.

All in all SUV's are in general more luxurious, safer, sportier looking, seat less persons or less comfortably than their equivalent MUV version.

Yet calling the Sumo Grande an SUV would not be entirely incorrect either. And it can definately be decked up and tuned to look and perform the part well.
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Old 9th February 2012, 11:13   #33
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

In a MUV- Multi Utility Vehicle one of its multi utility capability can be Sports Utility provided if 4x4 off roading gear is added onto a MUV as its feature.

4x4x equipped SUV can also become multi utility vehicle to move more people if 3rd front facing seats are offered.

At the end the manufacturer projects a vehicle, build brand, product portfolio as a MUV or as a SUV by configuring required features-equipment.
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Old 9th February 2012, 11:24   #34
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The term MUV (multi utility vehicle) is derived from MPV (multi purpose vehicle). Generally, I'd use the MUV / MPV tag for "van like" cars like the Innova, Xylo, Omni etc.

However, I do see the thread starter's point and consider the Sumo more of an SUV than an MUV. I guess it's about the body style, and the Sumo has more than a hint of an SUV to it.
Agreed but don't you think Sumo is too rough to get the SUV badge? I mean it don't have fit and finish of an SUV, power of an SUV, features of an SUV & also the looks as well. It looks big & rigid but never looks like a SUV IMO.

With Sumo Grande Tata had a golden chance to do that. But they couldn't do it. It has many features, fit and finish but they failed to give in looks department. I personally seen the Grande & its good by inside. But it failed in looks. Too much boxy looks. They should learn & take cues from the Land Rover which they own now. Copying good things is never a bad idea in my opinion
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Old 9th February 2012, 11:39   #35
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

I supppose its more of a market proposition, than actual differentiation in body styling.

The Sumo was designed, with mass market (people carrier) in mind, as against the Safari.

Same case being, the Trax.
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Old 9th February 2012, 11:49   #36
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

India is not yet a matured market enough to warrant such classifications.

For the time being i feel it is only about positioning of the model & nothing else.

In an evolved market SUV's will have 4X4 for sure, powerful engines, luxury etc etc.

The price difference between full option Sumo & base model Safari itself explains there is no much differentiation.
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Old 9th February 2012, 15:48   #37
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Agreed but don't you think Sumo is too rough to get the SUV badge? I mean it don't have fit and finish of an SUV, power of an SUV, features of an SUV & also the looks as well. It looks big & rigid but never looks like a SUV IMO.
No golden rule that SUVs can't be rough or have poor fit & finish. To me, the difference between the two remains body style and the Sumo is definitely more SUV than MUV. Further on that point, the Safari (SUV) has pathetic fit & finish when compared to the Innova (MUV).

Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar View Post
The Sumo was designed, with mass market (people carrier) in mind, as against the Safari.
This reminds me....the "SUV" tag only became popular in the mid-90's (with the American Ford Explorer, Jeep Cherokee et al). That's about the time that the Sumo was launched; maybe no one really knew about the SUV tag to use it on the Sumo at that time.
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Old 9th February 2012, 15:59   #38
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

Specific to this discussion, another way of justifying the categorization: taxi=Sumo=MUV; personal=Safari=SUV.
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Old 9th February 2012, 16:37   #39
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

I agree with the thread starter. There is no specific demarcation to classify the two vehicles in two totally different categories, from a layman point of view. We all know and admire the Swift as one of the best driver's car. I saw 2 brand Swift VDi being used as cab, just yesterday. So, does it become a people carrier suddenly? No! Indian passenger car market is fundamentally built upon mass perception rather than anything else. 10 persons around me tell me, Sumo is a taxi, I will say Sumo is a taxi. 20 persons around me tell me, Safari is a great SUV, I will yell Safari is a great SUV without even knowing anything about their individual merits.

@Dot: I agree. When I had visited Darjeeling & Sikkim, the only vehicles I saw on the roads were Boleros and Sumos. These vehicles are capable of handling much more torture than we think they can. I did not see a single Safari doing the duty. Infact, according to specs, Safari should be able to this job much much better, in terms of power, safety, but no. Its a perception. And the perception is like the dog's tail.

Originally Posted by dot View Post
I understand that SUVs are more comfort creatures than off roaders, but looking at how a Bolero rules the rural (off) roads, I think it serves another aspect of an SUV, that is to tackle lousy roads without breaking a sweat. And it is comfortable too, minus some fancy electronics. Just because we tend to cram a lot of bodies in it, does it render the vehicle as a MUV?
I wanted to highlight one more point which always surprises me. These so called MPVs/MUVs carry so much load, tackle all sorts of roads, no-roads, all the time. Dont they need all the safety features more than the sleek, stylish SUVs that we drive in urban areas? But if you observe, safety features are like style statements and all companies cash-in on those. The day when safety features become standard all across the range of vehicles, these perception-based classification might fade a bit.

Last edited by ajay_satpute : 9th February 2012 at 16:39.
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Old 6th May 2012, 15:30   #40
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

I think now I know it more properly as to why Sumo is MUV and Safari is SUV . The fundamental difference is that Sumo is a COMMERCIAL vehicle better known as MUV.It is basically people-carrier or people- mover designed to minimize front and rear overhang length to create more space for pessengers. Also the rear leaf spring suspension can absorb varation in pay load.
The Safari is a RECREATIONAL vehicle better known as SUV.

So despite both the cars sharing the same engine and gearbox (Safari with 3.0L engine) etc. the Sumo covers other features ( engine tuning, suspension, tyres etc) required by a COMMERCIAL vehicle and Safari covers the features required by a RECREATIONAL vehicle.

Last edited by koushik : 6th May 2012 at 15:35.
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Old 6th May 2012, 18:19   #41
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

This MUV terminology is an Indian invention. Nowhere else in the world you hear this term. Its either cars, vans or SUVs.

And obviously there is no clear definition leading to lots of confusion. To me it means a rural use vehicle meant to transport humans packed like sardines. Think Mahindra Commander

Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
If Sumo will be branded/positioned as SUV then who will buy Safari? I guess Sumo is lot cheaper than Safari. As simple as that.
Its like saying Dzire is a car (& cheaper) so who will buy SX4?
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Old 8th May 2012, 17:33   #42
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Default Re: Safari = SUV. Sumo = MUV. WHY?

Utility Vehicle is the segment these vehicles fall inside, where the duty is more for general transportation and commercial use with the design focussed on getting from point A to B it's classified as a utility vehicle.

Multi Utility - is a nomenclature also used to classify this type of vehicle.

In order to create a differentiation in terms of personal usage for the pleasure of driving performance,image with comfort , features etc aimed at the personal segment i.e families. The name Sports Utility Vehicle was used by the marketing arms of various OEM's primarily in the USA which has later spread to the rest of the world.

Hence personal segment focussed utility vehicles which are designed for image, power, performance and comfort get classified as SUV's.

The rest as Utility Vehicles either Multi/Life or Off-roaders or Multi "Premium" Vehicles and so on ....

Hence Sumo/ Sumo Grande- Utility vehicles or Multi Utility Vehicles. Safari - SUV

MPV's (Multi "Purpose " vehicles) are van like vehicles with a niche that is defined around comfort and luxury. Innova / Xylo / Ertiga. Again individual OEM marketer's use M"Premium"Vehicle or LUV to give it some individuality but then 10 years from now, who knows, we might have these categories in numbers as well as this growing segment divides and sub-divides.
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