[Daewood]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Visiblity issues (I am 6'0 still find view from new Swift's driver's seat not confidence aspiring. Complete contrast to the Vista where you have commanding view of the road ahead).

It's highly unfair to compare the 'visibility' of a hatch designed, for the tough to pass safety considerations of Europe,
to a hatch which is designed for countries where no serious safety regulations exist.

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

Centre Mounted Console: You seriously need to drive the Vista to feel th difference. This is not a sore point, but a big advantage in city driving conditions. You get a clear view of the object ahead.

If that's an advantage, why isn't the MANZA not having the speedo console in the center

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by silverado

Mr Swift you will be furious when you actually go and try it, from your quote it seems you are assuming it....

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I doubt you will get 5L for it given that its an old model now.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I have seen recently 2008 LDi going for 4.75L. Mine is a VDi ABS and has a fair share of accessories. On top of it, new model is still NOT available in the used car market. So 5L is a clear possibility!

My 2008 VDi was asked for 4.9 lks for exchange few days back.
clocked ~60K kms.
This was not the offer and was estimated by the ford dealer. If I can press, it should easily cross 5lks.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by Daewood

It's highly unfair to compare the 'visibility' of a hatch designed, for the tough to pass safety considerations of Europe,
to a hatch which is designed for countries where no serious safety regulations exist.

What does the Swift being designed for the tough-to-pass safety considerations of Europe have to do with the forward visibility from the driver's seat? And since the Europeans' average height is significantly greater than that of Indians, it should be the other way round, if anything.

Originally Posted by Daewood

If that's an advantage, why isn't the MANZA not having the speedo console in the center

That's like saying if the Dzire has a boot, why doesn't the Swift have one. It is just cost effective for LHD countries (like Italy where the Vista is sold but not the Manza), and product differentiation. I wish the differentiation had been taken further, like the distinct difference in the front ends of the Linea and Punto despite them being the same platform.

Back to topic: I do not believe that the Swift is a poor car or a worse choice for anyone. It just depends on what the purchaser's requirements are. I think the Swift (especially the new one) looks pretty cool. And since I don't drive with a full complement of passengers most of the time, the comfort of the passengers isn't my primary priority. The only thing that might for me count against it is the miniscule boot-space, because I have to live with that in my current car and it is a pain - albeit occasionally.

However I also believe that the Vista makes a very good case for itself. I had driven one extensively when visiting family, and they found it perfect for themselves. It ticked all the boxes for them, and they were happy. Didn't seem to have a very bad A.S.S. experience either :P It does have a ridiculous amount of space at the back. We had four average sized family members in the back bench for an eight hour round trip over roads varying from single carriage good to patches of road between mud/gravel. Never during, or at the end of the trip, did anyone complained of any discomfort!

Edit:

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I doubt you will get 5L for it given that its an old model now.

Down south, diesels command a massive premium. I don't think 5L should be a problem.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by VeluM

What does the Swift being designed for the tough-to-pass safety considerations of Europe have to do with the forward visibility from the driver's seat? And since the Europeans' average height is significantly greater than that of Indians, it should be the other way round, if anything.

Are you seriously unaware why the A-pillar is so thick these days or why the driver seat is, as far away as possible from the front of the car? or why the windows are becoming smaller and higher?

That's like saying if the Dzire has a boot, why doesn't the Swift have one. It is just cost effective for LHD countries (like Italy where the Vista is sold but not the Manza), and product differentiation.

Yes, the reason is 'cost-cutting'.
Instead of accepting that, it doesn't make sense when someone says that Vista has a centre console because, it's an 'advantage'.

[DieselAddikt]

Originally Posted by Daewood

Are you seriously unaware why the A-pillar is so thick these days or why the driver seat is, as far away as possible from the front of the car?

And you think Vista has thin A-pillars and driver front seats are too close to the windshield ?? Now you must be joking. Go take another look bro !

I am not saying Vista is at par with Swift, but it is definetly underrated.

And talking about the center console, it is actually nice to use. You don't have to take ur eyes fully off the road.

Oh and yes... Swift might have 6 airbags in Europe and here we have only 2. Even that is cost cutting, by the way. (Just for the argument)

[sidindica]

Swift=enthsiast's diesel hatch.

Vista=Practical family's mile munching diesel hatch.

Now take your pick.

[architect]

Originally Posted by Dieseldunk

(2) the Ride is hard in the Vista and not very kind on your back for long rides unlike the SWift.

On the contrary I have always found the Vista / Manza platform to have fantastic ride quality, especially at the rear. In that respect, Swift does not have great ride quality for rear passengers. Ride quality and Space is one of the USP of all Tata cars since the Indica and the Vista platform has only improved it.

The Swift handles great and has a decent gearbox. No doubts about that. Too bad the Swift never got the direct feedback-rich HPS of the Palio. That would have made it complete as an enthusiast's budget hatchback!

[blue_pulsar]

Swift and Vista have different capabilities and they cater to different category of people.

A swift is not the car for father, mother, wife and 2 kids. Its a car for a nuclear family with atleast one enthusiast. You just cannot complain that the backseat is not a 'sofa'.

A Vista is best suited to carry a whole family from point A to point B with no enthusiasts or an enthusiast who compromises the great handling for the comfort of his family.

Comparing both just because they have the same 'national' engine is not correct IMO.

Since they are cater to different audience, you can almost never get a Swift fan to agree that Vista is a good alternative to Swift and vice versa. Its pointless and an endless debate IMHO.

So, peace!

P.S. I would really suggest MODS to close this thread. A conclusion on this topic can never be reached even after a decade.

[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by Daewood

If that's an advantage, why isn't the MANZA not having the speedo console in the center

So why does the DZire has a Beige Black Interior, while the Swift has a full black?

We all know that every car caters to a particulat segment and there is no comparison of it.

Moreover let's agree that while Swift excels in the fun to drive factor (not that Vista is not fun to drive), but for Space, Comfort nothing beats the Vista

[figo_mba]

Vista for the space and practicality it offers. The Instrument cluster looks odd to me but my mom liked that (since she is able to keep a tab on the speed and act as a speed governor). Seats are comfortable and suspension is like magic carpet on the smooth surface roads (less so on other roads). Steering is a big let down. Acceleration is more of a surprise since the gearbox does not let you feel the turbo lag. Quality is better now I guess (I had the A pillar plastic falling off on the first day. No other major issues since). It is an automobile but not an object of passion for me.

Swift has a race tuned suspension and better response from the steering than the Vista. Also the steering feels larger and leathery and better than the plastic feel from Vista. There is a lag and then there is a boost. It does not feel relaxed somehow. Interior feels dark. BAck seats are not good when compared to the Vista.
The equipment list is not much to speak about. Quality is good but some rattles are definitely there always. Did more than 1L kms but still feels good. High speed ride is more confidence inspiring. Parts are not cheap.

I would choose the Vista and change the shocks to something better (say Bilstein or likes). Still would be cheaper than Swift and would not have to wait for months together.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by DieselAddikt

And you think Vista has thin A-pillars and driver front seats are too close to the windshield ?? Now you must be joking. Go take another look bro !

Never knew that by just looking at the thickness, you can judge it's crash-worthiness.
Then as per your analogy the Amby must be the safest car around.

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

So why does the DZire has a Beige Black Interior, while the Swift has a full black?

You think it's because Black interiors are cheaper to make than beige?
Then why do cars that cost 50 lakhs sport black interiors.

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

for Space, Comfort nothing beats the Vista

I always felt that UVA is the most spacious B segment hatch in India.
Since you appear to own both the UVA and Vista, you may be in a better position to compare.

[DieselAddikt]

Originally Posted by Daewood

Never knew that by just looking at the thickness, you can judge it's crash-worthiness.
Then as per your analogy the Amby must be the safest car around.

Nice one. I wanted you to say this. As it was you who initially said that Swift has less visibility only because it had thick pillars and that thick pillars were in place because Swift is made as per EU standards. So from your logic, thick pillar = EU standard. It was not mine.

And now you took a U Turn and said that thick pillar != safety. (Which is true by the way). So coming back to what VeluM said, he had poor visibility in Swfit which for him was a "disadvantage" and not an "advantage" as you had clarified. Simple as that !

Originally Posted by figo_mba

I would choose the Vista and change the shocks to something better (say Bilstein or likes). Still would be cheaper than Swift and would not have to wait for months together.

Sirji... I tried this. But Petes says there is no direct replacement shocks for Vista. Do you have any more leads ? Know people who are experts in these kinds of jobs ? :(

[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by Daewood

You think it's because Black interiors are cheaper to make than beige?
Then why do cars that cost 50 lakhs sport black interiors.

I always felt that UVA is the most spacious B segment hatch in India.
Since you appear to own both the UVA and Vista, you may be in a better position to compare.

It's not because they are cheaper, but again it's according to the car needs or aesthetics. I sincerely feel the centre console on the Vista is a boon for better frontal visitbility with the option of Driver Side Seat Height Adjust.

U-VA was the most spacious (still has a bigger boot than the Vista, however in terms of front and rear seat space Vista is miles ahead than any other car.

[simplyself]

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

It's not because they are cheaper, but again it's according to the car needs or aesthetics. I sincerely feel the centre console on the Vista is a boon for better frontal visitbility with the option of Driver Side Seat Height Adjust.

Black on dash is to reduce sun reflection. Also, black is associated with power in other cultures and we too have come to accept it in automobiles.

Centre console has never been a problem for me; my only grouse is, the back seat drivers get in duty mode over-time.

[Maverick1977]

On the topic of Manza not having a Central console I clearly remember speaking to a Sr. person at Tata Motors and he had informed me that the decision to not have the Console in the centre was because no Sedan seem to have it. It was a conscious decision taken by them. When I probed him if this was due to the feedback from the Vista customers, the answer was an emphatic NO.
I however was quite surprised when the Etios got launched with the centre console.

I am at wits end to understand: Is the placement of speedos et al so important that it could be the only reason a person wont buy it? On 2nd thoughts, its perfectly possible in our country.

Lastly I have also observed that people expect tooooo much from Tata motors along with a crazily low price. We want a perfectly BIG car which handles & speeds like a F1 car, gives mileage like a bullock cart, zero maintenance, ABS + Air bags is a must (God!!!!) and should not more than 5L. Is the manufacturer sitting here to do charity? Lets face it that each manufacturer wants to maximize profits. If Suzuki can, why cant' Tata's?

Just a thought: How many people who trade have a Swift and also have its shares and vice versa.

Concluding I feel this is a never ending thought, which can be extended to as much as why a Roller and not a Bentley...